Kissing so wrong?

[deleted account 6]

Reading some of the forum topics I found that some of us agree with kissing and some don't. What kind of kissing are we talking about when in a courting relationship (notice NOT dating relationship)? To make it easier and to be very blunt: is licking, sucking and tonguing acceptable for a Christian or not? What's your opinion?

Personally (although difficult to realise in this society moulded by Hollywood's values) these things are not acceptable in a courting relationship. It's like a form of foreplay setting up your partner for sex but not going all the way.
You wouldn't start sanding and putting the undercoat on a wall if you have no intention in painting it. So why set someone up for sex if you have no intention to take it that far.
[Sex outside marriage is a sin! I don’t think I need to add this in.]

I hate to sound old fashion and unpopular but this is my view what is yours?

[vocea]

Good stuff I love it :) Ya i think if i understand right you think the right way. I once heard a quote somewere that said

Act toward your girlfriend as you would want another guy too to your future wife if he was going out with her at the time.

[moe2006]

Dorin... I'm with you bro... it's not old fashioned, it's just that the world has changed.... I didn't care about kissing since I never kissed... but after reading "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" it changed my mind about everything... kissing is not good before marraige...

[FoRgIvEn]

i see nothing wrong with kissing.....but the couple should have some self control and not have sex. But if your married thats a differnt thing.....but this is my opinion. I admit, i kissed a girl, i c nothing wrong with it, didnt lead to sex...but yet again, thats my opinion

[elly]

i agree w/ u dorin!! it's not old fashioned!! :) and also dating from a young age is not good because u dont want to get married! dating means that u are looking for a man/ woman to spend your life w/! if you date just for fun....than you;re selfish!
another thing.....a relationship should bring u closer to God!!if it doesnt .........than just let it go.......! this is my opinion!

moe2005, why did u put "elly STINKS!!!" in your signature???

[fallen_]

Reading some of the forum topics I found that some of us agree with kissing and some don't. What kind of kissing are we talking about when in a courting relationship (notice NOT dating relationship)? To make it easier and to be very blunt: is licking, sucking and tonguing acceptable for a Christian or not? What's your opinion?

Personally (although difficult to realise in this society moulded by Hollywood's values) these things are not acceptable in a courting relationship. It's like a form of foreplay setting up your partner for sex but not going all the way.
You wouldn't start sanding and putting the undercoat on a wall if you have no intention in painting it. So why set someone up for sex if you have no intention to take it that far.
[Sex outside marriage is a sin! I don’t think I need to add this in.]

I hate to sound old fashion and unpopular but this is my view what is yours?
u get some repo for that, its like u stole my thought

[micutu]

moe2005, why did u put "elly STINKS!!!" in your signature???

wow man i love this stuff u fell for it so bad its funny, well its getin kinda sad now that i see so many falling for this code, its really funny

/you you really do stink :)

[yo]

in movies and hollywood world, kissing leads to sex, in real life although .... actually in a real "christian's" life its not same thing.

what I think is that when you are in "courting relationship" you should fast and pray to God so He may show you if he/she is the one, your future soulmate .... when you are in that period of time, I think you should NOT kiss, because what if God's answer turns out to be NO ... you kissed someonelse's wife :D .... however when you get God's approval, I think it is ok to kiss, because little by little as your relationship goes in time, God will reveal His plans to you (not all of them, ok?) but you're not in that courting relationship anymore, you both know and are convinced that God made you 2 for eachother ...

one more thing to add .... if kissing leads you to sinful thoughts and stuff like that, then you shouldn't kiss ... capishi? :P

[elly]

hahah very funny micutu :tongue2: ! lol:) same to u!! :))
well...i just found out......lol........ :bfro:

[johnromo]

well, if ur in a relationship and ur not thinking of marriage, then u should definitly not kiss or french, whatever. but i mean if ur old enough, and ur with a girl, and u wanna marry her, and thats what ur intentions r, then i c nothing wrong with it. if u wanna spend all ur life with her, doesn't matter if u kiss her before. :D

[myrela]

agreez cu Jonromo,daca nu ai planuri de casatorie nu saruta,de ce sa faci un lucru de care o sa-ti para rau?si o sa te urmareasca toata viata,ca ai sarutat sotul alteia s-au sotia altuia,Dzeu uraste sarutul in afara casatoriei.

[moe2006]

moe2005, why did u put "elly STINKS!!!" in your signature???
because you stink!!! :p: (It's a long story... don't worry about it ;) )

I would post some of Joshua Harris's book (I Kissed Dating Goodbye) that discussed this topic, but since it's too long, I'll summarize it.

there was a couple, Jeff and Gloria... they started a relationship, and before you know it they were kissing. When they decided they were made for eachother, they went to a motel and had sex. 2 years later Jeff calls Josh (the author) and says "I'm getting engaged!!! Deborah is the best person you would ever meet!!!" Do you see what's wrong with the picture??? It started with Gloria.... and kissing... and ended in a motel... and then he gets engaged to who? Not Gloria, Deborah.... :wall2:

now another couple put God in front of their relationship (I forgot their names) that decided NEVER to kiss before the wedding. They held hands occasionally. Well Josh went out with them after they got married, and he was driving. The guy, sitting next to him kept winking and then turned around to hold hands with his wife. Josh said that he hasn't seen so much love between a wife and husband, and while they were eating he asked them why they are so different from other couples. The guy answered that he kissed his wife for the first time at the altar. :hug:

See the difference? It's not old-fashioned, it's just that the world is changing and getting worse. It upsets me that pre-marital sex is tolerated in a lot of churches these days. It doesn't matter if teens have sex because Jesus forgives. Yes, Jesus forgives, but what did he tell Mary, after everyone dropped the stones??? "Go and sin no more." :thfro:

I recently chatted with a young girl, and it surprised me how she let guys use her, but she sais it's not a sin, they could touch her and kiss her, but not have sex. She was blind to what I was trying to tell her... for all people that think like her, I recommend "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" it's a great book... I've even thought of starting a seminar on this at our church here.

[relix]

moe's right. Not all the coool things (like... pushing things to the limit of having sex, but not over the limit...aka flirting championship) are good. They become a lot coooooooooler when done at the right time. Prin credinta fratilor!

[Yao_Ming2005]

i see nothing wrong with kissing.....but the couple should have some self control and not have sex. But if your married thats a differnt thing.....but this is my opinion. I admit, i kissed a girl, i c nothing wrong with it, didnt lead to sex...but yet again, thats my opinion

Thoughts can be a sin too...
About the controll part...
If David (whom God called “a man after my own heart”) fell in sin with Bathsheba...
How much more do u think u can control yourself of sinning in your mind if not physically then David had? Remember a heart is very deceitful… if u so as stumble on the path of righteousness or take your attention from God then you fall into sin which leads to Death..

[Elena7]

i think kissing is ok...its not like ur gana die if u kiss some1 just as long as the couple have self control..hehe

[Yao_Ming2005]

i think kissing is ok...its not like ur gana die if u kiss some1 just as long as the couple have self control..hehe

Reread my post.. :whistle:

[ella_tepes]

lol ohhh i get it now! it was fun for a while, but now that i get it i think its kindof uhh.. dumb? lol anyway.. back on topic.. i totally agree with the firts three posts on this thread. and i'm glad to see there are still guys out there care gandesc sanatos. :D (God bless you all!) and just another little addition of my own. i read i think it was in one of Elizabeth Elliot's books.. and she said. Don't do anything with a guy (if your a girl or the other way around) that you would be embarrassed to later tell your husband or that you wouldn't do with a guy after your married.... think of it that way....

[ella_tepes]

in movies and hollywood world, kissing leads to sex, in real life although .... actually in a real "christian's" life its not same thing.

what I think is that when you are in "courting relationship" you should fast and pray to God so He may show you if he/she is the one, your future soulmate .... when you are in that period of time, I think you should NOT kiss, because what if God's answer turns out to be NO ... you kissed someonelse's wife :D .... however when you get God's approval, I think it is ok to kiss, because little by little as your relationship goes in time, God will reveal His plans to you (not all of them, ok?) but you're not in that courting relationship anymore, you both know and are convinced that God made you 2 for eachother ...

one more thing to add .... if kissing leads you to sinful thoughts and stuff like that, then you shouldn't kiss ... capishi? :P
i agree with what you said to a certain extent... you should seek God's guidance but BEFORE you start your courtship. i've seen too many of my friends get involved in a relationship and after they realize they're in love they ask God if its His will! you're playing with yourself! you're setting your own self up for heartbreak! how absolutely foolish!... please peoples realize what you are doing... i think its high time we all grew up spiritually. i'm not trying to insult anybody... i just feel that so often we don't think things thoroughly and we hurt ourselves... we need (especially in relationships with the opposite sex) to think with our minds more than with our hearts.

[feuerfrei!]

what if... we unmarried ppl treated other members of the opposite sex... as if they were our brother/sister (which they are spiritually anyway). thinking in those terms should theoretically eliminate any grey areas. only after you two have become one in Christ at the altar, do you two become more than brother/sister. then and only then!

[Yao_Ming2005]

i agree with what you said to a certain extent... you should seek God's guidance but BEFORE you start your courtship. i've seen too many of my friends get involved in a relationship and after they realize they're in love they ask God if its His will! you're playing with yourself! you're setting your own self up for heartbreak! how absolutely foolish!... please peoples realize what you are doing... i think its high time we all grew up spiritually. i'm not trying to insult anybody... i just feel that so often we don't think things thoroughly and we hurt ourselves... we need (especially in relationships with the opposite sex) to think with our minds more than with our hearts.

:clapping: True.. but were gonna need more then our minds (the Heart doesnt like taking orders from the mind) we're gonna have to give our hearts to Jesus and flee from every little thing that can become a Sin... with that we need the guidance of the Holy Spirit and all the help and support of our Christian Elders
and most of all 'undivided obedience toward the Word of God' ( if u do these three things.. I'll theoretically guarantee you'll give Satan an headache :tongue: )

[moe2006]

what if... we unmarried ppl treated other members of the opposite sex... as if they were our brother/sister (which they are spiritually anyway). thinking in those terms should theoretically eliminate any grey areas. only after you two have become one in Christ at the altar, do you two become more than brother/sister. then and only then!
those words are well said... it seems as if you have read "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" :thfro:

[Borabee45]

i dont really agree with this! because we are cristians and i think that we can control our self and not be like hollywood where kissing leads to sex! i mean i have kissed some one be4 and it DEFINATLY did not lead to sex and i think it would be the same for any other cristian that nos how to control themself

[feuerfrei!]

i think we should really be asking ourselves why we're kissing in the first place. you may be surprised by the answer you come up w/.

[kingschild]

i dont think its k to kiss at all.till marriage,well after it i meant.star

[moe2006]

i dont really agree with this! because we are cristians and i think that we can control our self and not be like hollywood where kissing leads to sex! i mean i have kissed some one be4 and it DEFINATLY did not lead to sex and i think it would be the same for any other cristian that nos how to control themself I think we as christians should not kiss at all before marraige. Why do you want to kiss other women's future husbands anyways??? I hate all these excuses that come out of kids on this site...
i think we should really be asking ourselves why we're kissing in the first place. you may be surprised by the answer you come up w/.
don't ask me...!!!!! I proudly never kissed a girl... I will only kiss one, and that is AFTER she says I do on our wedding day...

[marching*4*Him]

thanks moe....just because i said no gosh...haha im jking...kissing...hmm....interesting thread...i wanna see where this goes...
be blessed

[moe2006]

thanks moe....just because i said no gosh...haha im jking...kissing...hmm....interesting thread...i wanna see where this goes...
be blessed
well it would GO somewhere if you posted something on topic ;)

[kingschild]

ok,let me make it clear.kissing is wrong before marriage .completely totally no arguiing it.AND NO QUESTIONS EITHER!!!!!!!now if some stupid guy tried to kiss me.he'd end up with a broken ankle and nose.so,yeah.(im pretty old fashioned...lol)
star

[Yao_Ming2005]

i dont really agree with this! because we are cristians and i think that we can control our self and not be like hollywood where kissing leads to sex! i mean i have kissed some one be4 and it DEFINATLY did not lead to sex and i think it would be the same for any other cristian that nos how to control themself

I use to think like u... my perents always told me im too young for girls and i didnt know why even through they tried to explain it kissing can be a sin... like you i thought if it doesnt lead to sex then its allright... but did u know that God will judge your thoughts too... no man or woman doesnt have bad thought unless the Holy Spirit guides them, thay pray alot and they flee from everything that would leads to sin..

[moe2006]

ok,let me make it clear.kissing is wrong before marriage .completely totally no arguiing it.AND NO QUESTIONS EITHER!!!!!!!now if some stupid guy tried to kiss me.he'd end up with a broken ankle and nose.so,yeah.(im pretty old fashioned...lol)
star
:amen: asa te vreau fato!!! :thfro: I'm gonna give u rep for this... just remind me because "I gave out too much rep in the past 24 hours" :wall2:

[Yao_Ming2005]

ok,let me make it clear.kissing is wrong before marriage .completely totally no arguiing it.AND NO QUESTIONS EITHER!!!!!!!now if some stupid guy tried to kiss me.he'd end up with a broken ankle and nose.so,yeah.(im pretty old fashioned...lol)
star

Not old fashioned but very determent christian... :amen:
u wont regret it..

[kingschild]

ahem thanks.moe wheres my rep.(i try to be determined)anyways hopefully it wont have to come to that.if some stupid pp now how to keep their distance.lol.
star

[yo]

i agree with what you said to a certain extent... you should seek God's guidance but BEFORE you start your courtship. i've seen too many of my friends get involved in a relationship and after they realize they're in love they ask God if its His will! you're playing with yourself! you're setting your own self up for heartbreak! how absolutely foolish!... please peoples realize what you are doing... i think its high time we all grew up spiritually. i'm not trying to insult anybody... i just feel that so often we don't think things thoroughly and we hurt ourselves... we need (especially in relationships with the opposite sex) to think with our minds more than with our hearts.

ella ... i continued the "story" from the first post :) ... and I agree with what u said ... but we we're talking about kissing ... and some ppl see it as a sin ... I would like to see a verse about that (if anyone has one ??????!!!?!) if GOD clearly showed u, that she or he is the one, why would u bring the "u're kissing somebodyelse's wife" argument?

I think this is one of those debates, where both sides should keep whatever they believe in to themselves and not judged the others who do or don't do it .... since there is no verse about it .....

[nihilo]

there's too much nonsense going on on this thread - you guys are living in la-la land! how the heck are you NOT gonna kiss before marriage? kissing is an expression of affection, and as long as it's done in the right context and relationship, it's not only fine, it's natural and normal.

when i dated my wife, we kissed A LOT. we still do A LOT (10 years later). we both knew we weren't 'gonna do it' before we got married, but to just sit there and talk about the weather and hold hands (or is that also wrong?) is retarded.

so while i admire your naiveness, it's not that logical or healthy. just wait, once you're in a commited relationship, you'll want to (and should) kiss.

sheesh!

[chachacha]

I think we as christians should not kiss at all before marraige. Why do you want to kiss other women's future husbands anyways??? I hate all these excuses that come out of kids on this site...

don't ask me...!!!!! I proudly never kissed a girl... I will only kiss one, and that is AFTER she says I do on our wedding day...


That's just your opinion and I agree with Borabee and nihilo. If you're Christian you would know your limits. I think kissing is healthy especially in a serious relationship and that's my opinion.

[nihilo]

ok,let me make it clear.kissing is wrong before marriage .completely totally no arguiing it.AND NO QUESTIONS EITHER!!!!!!!now if some stupid guy tried to kiss me.he'd end up with a broken ankle and nose.so,yeah.(im pretty old fashioned...lol)
star

this is idealistic nonsense. if some stupid guy tried to kiss you out of the blue, of course you would turn him away.

but if in a few years you meet mr. right, don't tell me you two are just gonna do bible studies and pray! or if you do, i would seriously say something is wrong in your relationship.

while i think YOU guys think your views are admirable and praiseworthy, they just have NO biblical proof whatsoever. so don't stretch it and make it what it ain't.

[nihilo]

what if... we unmarried ppl treated other members of the opposite sex... as if they were our brother/sister (which they are spiritually anyway). thinking in those terms should theoretically eliminate any grey areas. only after you two have become one in Christ at the altar, do you two become more than brother/sister. then and only then!

holy cow!!! can a relationship sound more sterile and unromantic than the one you described?? no.

you people need to realize that courtship and the pre-marriage romance is one of the most beautiful and exciting time periods of your lives, and you wanna go brother/sister on each other!

that's crazy AND TOTALLY unfounded. god gives us the wisdom to know what the boundaried are, and that's a good thing. but not kissing before marriage is so pointless - i guess all of you are so scared that it might lead to intercourse that you don't wanna take that chance. hmmm.

[Loredans31]

my opinion is this....kind of ewww but oh well theres ppl out there doin it 24/7 thinking its not wrong... ya u can kiss and make out....but when it comes to blow jobs or fingering ...ummm NO u have gone to far....in my point of view its bad bc even though it wasnt EXACTLY sex u still have the same reactions to it just like sex...so...w/e its ur life...mes sit up however u want to...but i knwo that thats what makes marrige a gift..... firt time for both of u....

[ankpo]

if u dont have self control then dont kiss...its as simple as that...if u take it in teh wrong way then that could be a prob too....be mature about geezz......there are more important things to be worring about than if u should kiss or not.

[ankpo]

another thing, so if u kiss you arent a "good christian"

[moe2006]

nihilo, I respect your opinions, but that's all they are: opinions. I've read SOOO many biblical-based relationship books, and I know it's NOT healthy to kiss before marraige (like chacha said :rolleyes: ) now, just because you kissed before marraige doesn't mean it's right... there are people that "love" lots of girls/guys before marraige... imagine kissing all of them :eek: and not everyone kisses before marraige... I sure didn't and I'm proud of my decision... and BTW: you could be kissing someone else's wife thinking that u love her... look at my post where I summarized a little bit from Joshua Harris's book "I Kissed Dating Goodbye". I understand you kissed your wife before marraige... that's fine... ur problem, but saying it's ok on royouth where there are lots of 14 and 15 yr olds can mess with their minds... I chatted with some, and they know every little detail about frenching and all kinds of making out :wall2: they should stick to sunday school and learn to be better christians. God gave Joshua Harris knowledge to write that book. It goes deep and I recommend everyone to read that book... I bought it and some more of his books... it's even translated in romanian.... do a google search if you're interested.

Loredans31: that post was so narrow-minded.... so I could french someone (stick my tongue in a chicks mouth) but not blow jobs or fingerings??? I really don't see a difference... they're all sexual... whether it's kissing or fingering... get it right...

[moe2006]

if u dont have self control then dont kiss...its as simple as that...if u take it in teh wrong way then that could be a prob too....be mature about geezz......there are more important things to be worring about than if u should kiss or not.
there are people with self control that become moms and dads before marraige.... read Michael Yussef's "Knowing Your Enemy".... when you open a little door to sin, the devil takes advantage and slams the door open and takes over... human self control is nothing!!!

and I do think that in this generation this is an important issue... because the way it's going, in the next generation, pre-marital sex will be tolerated...

here's my advice... THINK before you post... all the young ones post that it's alright, and I thought so too at their age, but now when I think about myself when I was 14-15 I think "dang I was stupid" and you guys will too... let God's wisdom take over you, not kissing urges...

[Titan79]

whats going on with all this titan bashing. i guess you guys have some lil secret code going on. Thats cute, but it would probably be funnier if other people knew to so they could join in the laughter.

[ankpo]

Moe i agree with you (im not 12 either so dont think that im young and i dont know anything) but i think there are more important things to be worring about then kissing. If its a problem...then dont do it!

[moe2006]

Moe i agree with you (im not 12 either so dont think that im young and i dont know anything) but i think there are more important things to be worring about then kissing. If its a problem...then dont do it!
lol tell them that. If this thread doesn't apply to you or isn't important enough for you, why are you posting on it? Maybe there's someone who really wants to know if it's good or bad, and you come on with these lame comments that are neutral... you're either for it or against it... pick.

[moe2006]

ella ... i continued the "story" from the first post :) ... and I agree with what u said ... but we we're talking about kissing ... and some ppl see it as a sin ... I would like to see a verse about that (if anyone has one ??????!!!?!) if GOD clearly showed u, that she or he is the one, why would u bring the "u're kissing somebodyelse's wife" argument?

I think this is one of those debates, where both sides should keep whatever they believe in to themselves and not judged the others who do or don't do it .... since there is no verse about it .....
What?!? You think the Bible says "thou shalt not kiss?" God's Word is his word, and we should follow it, but God also created our minds and common sense... there is also no verses on "fingering" so why shouldn't we do it? Baga-ti mintile in cap, frate!!! :wall2:

like I said in many threads before... if we sin and someone points out the sin, we bust out and say it's not a sin... just because we do it. Instead of saying like Paul that we're the BIGGEST sinners, we're making christians look bad by making more and more sins tolerable.

[ankpo]

whats wrong with my "lame" comments being neutral? I didnt know my posts had to be clear cut black and white answers

[moe2006]

whats wrong with my "lame" comments being neutral? I didnt know my posts had to be clear cut black and white answers
they don't have to be.. but pointless posts make me go :wall2:

at first you agree with me, and then u don't.... :wall2: :wall2:

[Titan79]

Wow, I didn't know there could be so much controversy made up over kissing. Looks like we got alot of time on our hands people. It's interesting to see everybody's posts on the subject. I'm not going to say anything because after all, it is just "opinion." So what I say has no more value than anybody else's post. But I'm happy to see all these guys have "kissed dating goodbye"......I guess that leaves more girls for me. :yeahdude:

[yo]

What?!? You think the Bible says "thou shalt not kiss?" God's Word is his word, and we should follow it, but God also created our minds and common sense... there is also no verses on "fingering" so why shouldn't we do it? Baga-ti mintile in cap, frate!!! :wall2:

like I said in many threads before... if we sin and someone points out the sin, we bust out and say it's not a sin... just because we do it. Instead of saying like Paul that we're the BIGGEST sinners, we're making christians look bad by making more and more sins tolerable.

however u do not have any proof at all whatsoever that kissing is a sin ......... you can kiss without having sinful thoughts (did u know that?) .... why would the bible speak on the sinful thoughts and says that those are sins and it doesnt speak on kissing? because its not ....... if you have a filthy mind and u can not control it ... then yeah it is better to wait on kissing

[anton_82]

And what does marriage mean anyways? Marriage the way i see it is a bond between a man and a woman to be with eachother and raise children. And who decides when a couple is actually married?
The Priest? The Judge? ...a bunch of documents that are signed? The elder of the tribe?
I mean who has the power to actually marry peoples? The church? How about me ? :D

I think marriage is only symbolic - what matters here is that the two lovers match and are serious about staying with eachother until death separates them... :really:
at least for the sake of the children...

[nihilo]

nihilo, I respect your opinions, but that's all they are: opinions. I've read SOOO many biblical-based relationship books, and I know it's NOT healthy to kiss before marraige (like chacha said :rolleyes: ) now, just because you kissed before marraige doesn't mean it's right... there are people that "love" lots of girls/guys before marraige... imagine kissing all of them :eek: and not everyone kisses before marraige... I sure didn't and I'm proud of my decision... and BTW: you could be kissing someone else's wife thinking that u love her... look at my post where I summarized a little bit from Joshua Harris's book "I Kissed Dating Goodbye". I understand you kissed your wife before marraige... that's fine... ur problem, but saying it's ok on royouth where there are lots of 14 and 15 yr olds can mess with their minds... I chatted with some, and they know every little detail about frenching and all kinds of making out :wall2: they should stick to sunday school and learn to be better christians. God gave Joshua Harris knowledge to write that book. It goes deep and I recommend everyone to read that book... I bought it and some more of his books... it's even translated in romanian.... do a google search if you're interested.

Loredans31: that post was so narrow-minded.... so I could french someone (stick my tongue in a chicks mouth) but not blow jobs or fingerings??? I really don't see a difference... they're all sexual... whether it's kissing or fingering... get it right...

moe, to me joshua harris means nothing. even his book is not the ultimate authority on the subject. so just like i have an opinion, you have an opinion. the only thing that matters is what the bible says.

and the bible definitely does not say you should not kiss before marriage. instead of telling 15 year olds not to kiss, teach them the right attitudes about relationships.

i don't mean go and kiss everyone in sight, i mean being in a relationship - there is nothing wrong with kissing.

joshua harris is lame imho. he took an opinion and made it doctrine. and those kinds of people always scare me. and they mislead a lot of generations of tineri.

[nihilo]

and one more thing kids - ask you own parents if they kissed before they were married. opa!

as with anything, it has a lot to do with the context in which you do it. i would bet all of you that said you will not kiss before marriage that you WILL kiss. if you're not gonna kiss your mate at the engagement, holy cow! what would that prove? NOTHING. except coldness and lack of affection.

[ramonel]

Oooo.. nihilo.. I like what you're saying dude. The 'ask your parents when they were young' line.. works wonders.

[yo]

anton_82 u got the marriage thing totally wrong dude
God is the one who bonds 2 people together
un verset zice "ce-a unit Dumnezeu, omul sa nu desparta" si se refera la marriage
so GOd is the one who has the authority to marry people.
Same sex marriages and sex outside marriage are sins that wont go unpunished...

[anton_82]

anton_82 u got the marriage thing totally wrong dude
God is the one who bonds 2 people together
un verset zice "ce-a unit Dumnezeu, omul sa nu desparta" si se refera la marriage
so GOd is the one who has the authority to marry people.
Same sex marriages and sex outside marriage are sins that wont go unpunished...

:screwy:
And who Speaks for God ? You tell me that please...... Some freakin Gay Lezbo Anglican Church female priest who can marry gays??? Is that a legitimate person that speaks for god and can perform marriages? I've seen that on TV. The problem is that everyone these days seems to interpret God as they choose (maybe you and me do that also), - but I look at the animal world where there are no gays, ( :) but also no wedding ceremonies, and surprsingly some of these little critters form a pretty strong bond, raise kids, take care of them. :nono: Ooo!! (And they dont have wedding rings on their fingers!! - :sick: ) -
You know what i think? Peoples these days have become worse then animals.
Take a look around.

[amärâtu]

well, i want to tell u soomething.do u know what the priest or pastor says just after he proclaim u like houspand and wife???"U can NOW kiss the bride" why does he say that???God gave him the authority to unite u in marriage.he gives u the right, Now, that u are houspand and wife to kiss the bride, YOUR BRIDE.its like he si telling :"NOW, u can kiss the bride!,NOW!"
kissing is only for ur houspand or wife.its wrong to kiss before marriage even if she/he is ur fiance.ur body, ur whole body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit and u must, or suposed to be "virgin, pure and clean" before marriage.that means ur whole body not only ur sexual organs.every part of ur body,that means touching parts that are not suposed to be touched before marriage, or kissing.UR WHOLE BODY.
thats ur gift to ur wife/houspand.UR WHOLE.i never kissed a girl and i will not.i will have my first kiss at the althar.if u think that i am crazy, well thank you but i think i will experience something unique,my first kiss with my wife.the woman of my life.
yes. kissing before marriage is wrong cause u sin in ur body.
may the Lord bless u, and if i upset someone, well read 2Corinthians 7:10

[Yao_Ming2005]

what about
2Tim2:22

22 Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart

[Yao_Ming2005]

and one more thing kids - ask you own parents if they kissed before they were married. opa! as with anything, it has a lot to do with the context in which you do it. i would bet all of you that said you will not kiss before marriage that you WILL kiss. if you're not gonna kiss your mate at the engagement, holy cow! what would that prove? NOTHING. except coldness and lack of affection.

I allready asked they didnt kiss...

[xfantasiousx]

on the subject of kissing i dont think its that bad. just dont let it go on to sex. :) yes, thats my opinion.

[moe2006]

anton_82: from your posted I could see pretty well that you're immature and a hypocrite. How can you tell me that sex before marraige is alright? That marraige is just a symbol? Your "sarcasm" is reveiling your stupidity, dude. I'm not a mod, but as a true member on royouth, I think I can tell you to stop cussing on this site, and get a life (Jesus is the life)
moe, to me joshua harris means nothing. even his book is not the ultimate authority on the subject. so just like i have an opinion, you have an opinion. the only thing that matters is what the bible says.

and the bible definitely does not say you should not kiss before marriage. instead of telling 15 year olds not to kiss, teach them the right attitudes about relationships.

i don't mean go and kiss everyone in sight, i mean being in a relationship - there is nothing wrong with kissing.

joshua harris is lame imho. he took an opinion and made it doctrine. and those kinds of people always scare me. and they mislead a lot of generations of tineri.Did you even read his book or are you just talking since I'm opposed to your opinion? I respect you bro, but I think Joshua Harris does have a point in his books. You think he made his opinion a doctrine, but if you notice, he uses the Bible to back up his points. About teaching the 15 year olds the right attitude about relationships, "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" took care of every detail. Be wise in your decisions and let God lead your relationship, not urges. Joshua actually taught me a lot in his books (and I've never dated in my life!!!). The world is changing, and more sins are becoming tolerable... if you give teens the right to kiss (or tell them it's ok to kiss before marraige) they won't stop to think when their clothes come off, they'll get right into intercourse: it has NOTHING to do with self control!!! It has to do with letting the devil have a little bit of your heart, and little by little he crawls deeper and lets trails of sin and makes scars that hardly go away. I do see what you're trying to say, but I disagree.

anton_82 u got the marriage thing totally wrong dude
God is the one who bonds 2 people together
un verset zice "ce-a unit Dumnezeu, omul sa nu desparta" si se refera la marriage
so GOd is the one who has the authority to marry people.
Same sex marriages and sex outside marriage are sins that wont go unpunished...
I agree. This anton guy is just being :screwy: I think he's the one that's flirting with 14 and 15 year olds on rochat :wall2:
well, i want to tell u soomething.do u know what the priest or pastor says just after he proclaim u like houspand and wife???"U can NOW kiss the bride" why does he say that???God gave him the authority to unite u in marriage.he gives u the right, Now, that u are houspand and wife to kiss the bride, YOUR BRIDE.its like he si telling :"NOW, u can kiss the bride!,NOW!"
kissing is only for ur houspand or wife.its wrong to kiss before marriage even if she/he is ur fiance.ur body, ur whole body is the Temple of the Holy Spirit and u must, or suposed to be "virgin, pure and clean" before marriage.that means ur whole body not only ur sexual organs.every part of ur body,that means touching parts that are not suposed to be touched before marriage, or kissing.UR WHOLE BODY.
thats ur gift to ur wife/houspand.UR WHOLE.i never kissed a girl and i will not.i will have my first kiss at the althar.if u think that i am crazy, well thank you but i think i will experience something unique,my first kiss with my wife.the woman of my life.
yes. kissing before marriage is wrong cause u sin in ur body.
may the Lord bless u, and if i upset someone, well read 2Corinthians 7:10
I agree with you all the way man. You're using wisdom that God has given you, while others leave wisdom aside to write childish and unnecassary posts *cough anton cough*. I'm glad I'm not the only guy that thinks like this... :thfro:

[moe2006]

and one more thing kids - ask you own parents if they kissed before they were married. opa!

Sorry... they didn't :doh:

[anton_82]

Sorry... they didn't :doh:


I told you that there are some exceptions to that sex before marriage thing on which god maybe wont send you into the "boiling pitts of hell". You live in the most morally corrupt country on earth, that places the least emphasis on marriage and familly values, instead more on money and hollywood porn industry so dont speak about marriage and sins please, - the one who is witout a sin, let him cast the first stone..
And about my flirting on the Chat, well again stop singling me out, we all do it, so throw stones at me if it makes you feel good - Me i dont care who are talk with, and i usually dont ask for their age, if they are nice and pleasant peoples to talk with, then thats all i care.

PS: remove that stalker thing from your signature, or i'll have you reported.

[skylineGTR_guy]

You'r an idiot and you interpret anything as you see fit.
I told you that there are some exceptions to that sex before marriage thing on which god maybe wont send you into the "boiling pitts of hell". You live in the most morally corrupt country on earth, that places the least emphasis on marriage and familly values, instead more on money and hollywood porn industry so dont speak about marriage and sins please, - the one who is witout a sin, let him cast the first stone..
And about my flirting on the Chat, well again stop singling me out, we all do it, so throw stones at me if it makes you feel good - Me i dont care who are talk with, and i usually dont ask for their age, if they are nice and pleasant peoples to talk with, then thats all i care.

PS: remove that stalker thing from your signature, or i'll have you reported.

the stalker thing in his signature shows the name of whoever is viewing the thread, when i see it it says "skylineGTR_guy is a stalker" so its not an insult towards you, its a VB code.

[skylineGTR_guy]

You'r an idiot and you interpret anything as you see fit.
I told you that there are some exceptions to that sex before marriage thing on which god maybe wont send you into the "boiling pitts of hell". You live in the most morally corrupt country on earth, that places the least emphasis on marriage and familly values, instead more on money and hollywood porn industry so dont speak about marriage and sins please, - the one who is witout a sin, let him cast the first stone..
And about my flirting on the Chat, well again stop singling me out, we all do it, so throw stones at me if it makes you feel good - Me i dont care who are talk with, and i usually dont ask for their age, if they are nice and pleasant peoples to talk with, then thats all i care.

PS: remove that stalker thing from your signature, or i'll have you reported.

First of all I encourage you to submit biblical proof of your standpoint or give me an example because i certainly dont see any.

Second of all what does living in a morally corrupt country have anything to do with it? Living in a certain country doesnt make you any more right or wrong.

[skylineGTR_guy]

anton_82 also watch your language or you will be suspended.

Oh and also quit being racist.

[Elena7]

Reread my post.. :whistle:
i did..i sitll htink kissing is o k...

[feuerfrei!]

kissing is not the problem. it would be ridiculously legalistic to believe that kissing is wrong. the problem... is the reason you are kissing. i would like to encourage you that kissing is meant to be shared between you and the one God has preordained for you to be w/. there is no other whom you should be kissing. kissing is not a right of adolescence or dating. like sex, it is a right of lifelong commitment to one person under God. if you have not made and are not living out that commitment to one such person, your lips have no reason touching theirs.

[moe2006]

kissing is not the problem. it would be ridiculously legalistic to believe that kissing is wrong. the problem... is the reason you are kissing. i would like to encourage you that kissing is meant to be shared between you and the one God has preordained for you to be w/. there is no other whom you should be kissing. kissing is not a right of adolescence or dating. like sex, it is a right of lifelong commitment to one person under God. if you have not made and are not living out that commitment to one such person, your lips have no reason touching theirs.
nice post there.... I had to read it a couple times to make sure I understand it.... all in all... in the end: I agree :thfro:

[kingschild]

so looks like more pp are starting to agree.
star

[deleted account 6]

Firstly I'd like to thank you all for your input to this subject regardless of whether we agree or not.
You know… if there is nothing wrong with kissing then I would hate to be missing out. I too have hormones that work completely fine (sometimes overboard) thus why suppress something that ‘might’ be justified before God.
I don't thinking kissing is the problem, rather, we are dealing with the symptom of a far great problem.
Just because everyone does something doesn't necessarily mean it is acceptable in God's eyes, because as Jesus said (quoting out of context but relevant none-the-less) "... From the beginning things were not like this".
Once upon a time it was considered unsocial for a husband and wife to kiss (peck on the cheek) in public. Now days it's okay and tolerable to pash in public regardless of your sexual orientation and creed on marriage
Bill Gothard explains three standards of living. Godly living - average living - and sinful living. Most people don't want to be fanatical and chose to live average lives. The world introduces a new lower sinful standard of living. Thus those who once lived a sinful lifestyle now tolerate heavier sin in their lives. But the tragedy is that people who were once non-fanatics have also lowered their standards to a sinful lifestyle saying we are not as sinful as the world. They do not realize that the world's values have diminished and consequently so have theirs.

Therefore as the Bible says God's thoughts are HIGHER than ours as are the heavens from the earth. God has a greater purpose in His "Kill joy attitude". He wants our long term happiness.
satan inversely will gladly offer shiny experiences that are sweet momentarily (even if this last your entire life) but have a bitter long term aftermath.
The choice is ours. God says "I put before you good and bad, life and death, I suggest you choose life."
This is where faith comes into play do you BELIEVE God or do you ignore God (Thus automatically accepting santan as your father)?
The Bible says that should an unmarried couple have sex they should marry. End of story.
Should they see each other (or just one of them) naked they should marry. (Check out Deuteronomy)
Thus visual intimacy directly connected two people together. They had to (by God’s law) get married. How much more intimate is physical contact through inappropriate ('unholy') kissing bringing together two people?
Sadly we may not all (including myself) be living Godly lives, thus our thoughts are not His thoughts and so we accept strange ideas that our misleading heart justifies. Our conscience malfunctions or we have turned it on mute.
I would rather be a fanatical for Christ than the champion Flirter on earth. For what would a man gain should he have the entire world if he lost his soul?
Think Big, Think Eternal, Think GODLY
May God have mercy on us all and may His face continue to shine on us giving us grace to live one day at a time. :cheerup: :cheerup: :cheerup:

[kingschild]

AMIN FRATE.U TELL THEM BROTHER.I AGREE WITH U 100 PERCENT.
star

[forgiven_4_ever]

I Believe kissing is right..Only if your with a guy that you know that he loves you for who your truly are and not your looks.. And if your serious about getting married because kissing can lead to other stuff.And of course if he is mature and not those little boys who play there immature games!!

[nihilo]

Firstly I'd like to thank you all for your input to this subject regardless of whether we agree or not.
You know… if there is nothing wrong with kissing then I would hate to be missing out. I too have hormones that work completely fine (sometimes overboard) thus why suppress something that ‘might’ be justified before God.
I don't thinking kissing is the problem, rather, we are dealing with the symptom of a far great problem.
Just because everyone does something doesn't necessarily mean it is acceptable in God's eyes, because as Jesus said (quoting out of context but relevant none-the-less) "... From the beginning things were not like this".
Once upon a time it was considered unsocial for a husband and wife to kiss (peck on the cheek) in public. Now days it's okay and tolerable to pash in public regardless of your sexual orientation and creed on marriage
Bill Gothard explains three standards of living. Godly living - average living - and sinful living. Most people don't want to be fanatical and chose to live average lives. The world introduces a new lower sinful standard of living. Thus those who once lived a sinful lifestyle now tolerate heavier sin in their lives. But the tragedy is that people who were once non-fanatics have also lowered their standards to a sinful lifestyle saying we are not as sinful as the world. They do not realize that the world's values have diminished and consequently so have theirs.

Therefore as the Bible says God's thoughts are HIGHER than ours as are the heavens from the earth. God has a greater purpose in His "Kill joy attitude". He wants our long term happiness.
satan inversely will gladly offer shiny experiences that are sweet momentarily (even if this last your entire life) but have a bitter long term aftermath.
The choice is ours. God says "I put before you good and bad, life and death, I suggest you choose life."
This is where faith comes into play do you BELIEVE God or do you ignore God (Thus automatically accepting santan as your father)?
The Bible says that should an unmarried couple have sex they should marry. End of story.
Should they see each other (or just one of them) naked they should marry. (Check out Deuteronomy)
Thus visual intimacy directly connected two people together. They had to (by God’s law) get married. How much more intimate is physical contact through inappropriate ('unholy') kissing bringing together two people?
Sadly we may not all (including myself) be living Godly lives, thus our thoughts are not His thoughts and so we accept strange ideas that our misleading heart justifies. Our conscience malfunctions or we have turned it on mute.
I would rather be a fanatical for Christ than the champion Flirter on earth. For what would a man gain should he have the entire world if he lost his soul?
Think Big, Think Eternal, Think GODLY
May God have mercy on us all and may His face continue to shine on us giving us grace to live one day at a time. :cheerup: :cheerup: :cheerup:


very well said, but your arguments don't include anything about what the bible says. you think that you have it all figured out, but to me your attitude smacks of 'holier-than-thou'. and that attitude is far worse than kissing your fiancee before you're married.

if you want not kiss before you marry, that's your decision, but don't try to make it into a doctrinal and biblical issue. it's not.

[nihilo]

I allready asked they didnt kiss...

they lied to you man! :bfro:

[Yao_Ming2005]

they lied to you man! :bfro:

haha.. nope my mom didnt let my dad...

[moe2006]

they lied to you man! :bfro:
lol trust me... u don't know my mom.... she'd kick my dad where it hurts if he kissed her before marraige.... (BTW: Yao Ming is my bro :D )

[nihilo]

lol trust me... u don't know my mom.... she'd kick my dad where it hurts if he kissed her before marraige.... (BTW: Yao Ming is my bro :D )

whoa! THAT explains it! that's why 2 of you said your parents didn't kiss - you've got the same parents.

i still don't believe you, i think they're yanking your chains.

btw, why stop at kissing? maybe we should have women start wearing burqas like muslims, so that we won't be tempted to look at them.

you guys would have made good taliban representatives.

this whole nonsense of not kissing is retarded. it has no biblical basis. that's my ultimate standard, not your arguments, not joshie harris, not anyone else. the bible only.

[Romerican]

whoa! THAT explains it! that's why 2 of you said your parents didn't kiss - you've got the same parents.

i still don't believe you, i think they're yanking your chains.

btw, why stop at kissing? maybe we should have women start wearing burqas like muslims, so that we won't be tempted to look at them.

you guys would have made good taliban representatives.

this whole nonsense of not kissing is retarded. it has no biblical basis. that's my ultimate standard, not your arguments, not joshie harris, not anyone else. the bible only.

gosh that a great idea...
what u said up their about how women should wear burqas...(btw whats are burqas) :scratch:
but really....a man shouldnt marry a women cuz of her looks...it's whats in her heart that counts... :wall2:
oh btw back to the topic kissing..??? it best to wait till after ur say ur vows...or at least untill ur engaged.. :clapping:

i never kissed a girl and i will not.i will have my first kiss at the althar.if u think that i am crazy, well thank you but i think i will experience something unique,my first kiss with my wife.the woman of my life.
yes. kissing before marriage is wrong cause u sin in ur body.
may the Lord bless u, and if i upset someone, well read 2Corinthians 7:10

thats how u guys should be! :yeahdude:
serously...u should wait for the Right person to share the first kiss with !!

I didn't care about kissing since I never kissed... but after reading "I Kissed Dating Goodbye" it changed my mind about everything... kissing is not good before marraige...

that book sounds good.(intresting)... i gots to read it.... :angel:

[moe2006]

nihilo... I think I might end up kissing my fiancee before marraige... but I still don't agree with it :D

[anton_82]

anton_82 also watch your language or you will be suspended.

Oh and also quit being racist.

I'm not racist, but i'm against intermarriage and i know most good old Romanians that I know are also against it. I'd like to know what the Churche's positions in on this hot subject, before i like to know your's.
Also it would be more interesting to start a topic about this, and i think it'll be more exciting then debating about kissing, - but if you feel that it's too hot of a subject, then fine, dont allow it.
:really:
""God bless you""

[skylineGTR_guy]

I'm not racist, but i'm against intermarriage and i know most good old Romanians that I know are also against it. I'd like to know what the Churche's positions in on this hot subject, before i like to know your's.
Also it would be more interesting to start a topic about this, and i think it'll be more exciting then debating about kissing, - but if you feel that it's too hot of a subject, then fine, dont allow it.
:really:
""God bless you""


I believe the exact words were: a big ugly negro, which is by all means racist.

[CalinBisou]

Ok there are various issues to this topic.

The first being teens kissing, which I'm against. Why? because there is a misconception of what dating is meant to be and what love is meant to be. Most teens kiss not because of love but due to lust. Moe2005 stated well that many teens know more about various ways to kiss than the stories in the New Testament. And many teens get hooked into the, "if you love me, you'll...." Kissing as a teen is mostly about peer pressure. If you do not put out, you're out.

The second being HOW we define love and affection. Many of you stated that society today displays love as pre-martial sex. How twisted the world has become to turn the very thing God made that is used in marriage as a 'short-cut' to people's sinful lusts. There are more than one way to say "I Love You" that doesn't require sex and even kissing. It is true that kissing is a sexual act because one kiss here can lead to impure thoughts.

I'll have to agree with nilhilo that saying you won't kiss is one thing, but when you find the one you are with, it is another thing. I'm not saying go out and kiss all you want but be careful! Kissing past the cheek or quick peck on the lips is most likely going too far. I told myself that I would kiss for the first time, the man I wanted to spend the rest of my life.... meaning, my first kiss would be my last. And I stuck to that. Nihilo is right, you will want to show affection beyond just the holding hands. Heck, if you're not careful, prolonged hugging can lead to sin too! Anywho, I believe kissing on the cheek is perfectly acceptable as well as a quick peck on the lips. But I agree that you've got to be VERY careful! For those of you who decided to wait until you are at the altar...kudos to you. I hope you can make it that far. Because it is very difficult.

If you read the Song of Solomon's, you'll notice that the couples does not resort to the physical acts in the beginning of their relationship. The Physical is saved for marriage. I only bring this up to emphasize that if a relationship is founded on the physical, you'll have nothing. Tommy Nelson has a great CD series on the Song of Solomon's that I highly recommend. Anyway, the point is, WHERE is your focus in the relationship?? Do you talk and discuss various issues of what you believe and where you stand? Do you know each other's likes and dislikes? Those are the things that matter. If you want to kiss him or her on the cheek, I see no harm in that. Your intentions should be honorable and pure. Just be smart and don't put yourselves in positions to be tempted beyond your control. A kiss isn't just a kiss.

[nihilo]

nihilo... I think I might end up kissing my fiancee before marraige... but I still don't agree with it :D


hahahaha, i knew it! you'll be complaining the whole time, i'm sure.... :)

ya man, that's what i meant. i never meant for the kids to go out and kiss for the heck of it. they have no clue what it's all about, and it can easily lead to other activities.

but if you follow god's leading, there ain't nothing wrong with kissing, especially once you decided to commit to someone.

peace man.

[tucurel]

moe's right. Not all the coool things (like... pushing things to the limit of having sex, but not over the limit...aka flirting championship) are good. They become a lot coooooooooler when done at the right time. Prin credinta fratilor!

But where we draw the line, brother? Not all expressions of romantic love are to the "limit of having sex".

[tucurel]

Reading some of the forum topics I found that some of us agree with kissing and some don't. What kind of kissing are we talking about when in a courting relationship (notice NOT dating relationship)? To make it easier and to be very blunt: is licking, sucking and tonguing acceptable for a Christian or not? What's your opinion?

Personally (although difficult to realise in this society moulded by Hollywood's values) these things are not acceptable in a courting relationship. It's like a form of foreplay setting up your partner for sex but not going all the way.
You wouldn't start sanding and putting the undercoat on a wall if you have no intention in painting it. So why set someone up for sex if you have no intention to take it that far.
[Sex outside marriage is a sin! I don’t think I need to add this in.]

I hate to sound old fashion and unpopular but this is my view what is yours?

Personally, I agree wtih you on the bolded part. Licking, sucking and tonguing simply are not ways to (physically) express your romantic love for someone. Hence, they are done strictly for pleasure. One may not compare a moderate and tender kiss with a licking session, and I doubt any normal girl would appreciate being licked or sucked by her lover. I personally renounced at French kisses, no matter how romantic they may seem.

[johnromo]

well, this guy from seattle came to our church and he was talking, and was saying things, and was saying if they r gods will. like drinking. and he provided proof from the bible saying they r not gods will. and dating its not gods will, except if ur thinking of marriage. if dating is not gods will, then what do u think kissing? its sharing something special with someone. and then u break up. u break their heart.
i mean, don't get me wrong, i'll probably date and kiss girls, but u know i'm just saying the facts, how they r! :D

[kingschild]

john u better n ot be breaking hearts cause when u move here ill break ur bones.k.good that u got it.and i like ur answer a little.,
star

[simmsattack_28]

well, this guy from seattle came to our church and he was talking, and was saying things, and was saying if they r gods will. like drinking. and he provided proof from the bible saying they r not gods will. and dating its not gods will, except if ur thinking of marriage. if dating is not gods will, then what do u think kissing? its sharing something special with someone. and then u break up. u break their heart.
i mean, don't get me wrong, i'll probably date and kiss girls, but u know i'm just saying the facts, how they r! :D


your breaking my heart!

[dukey]

Lovers always want a kiss
to be a taste of eternal bliss
The softness, the gentleness,
the purity of oneness...

Your kisses, you should keep
For the One...or you may weep
For many don't give a care
about the love you wish to share

Remeber this and you'lll be wise:
A stare...a touch...a kiss
all are free gifts meant only for one

[simmsattack_28]

Lovers always want a kiss
to be a taste of eternal bliss
The softness, the gentleness,
the purity of oneness...

Your kisses, you should keep
For the One...or you may weep
For many don't give a care
about the love you wish to share

Remeber this and you'lll be wise:
A stare...a touch...a kiss
all are free gifts meant only for one


wow thats really beautiful

[moe2006]

Lovers always want a kiss
to be a taste of eternal bliss
The softness, the gentleness,
the purity of oneness...

Your kisses, you should keep
For the One...or you may weep
For many don't give a care
about the love you wish to share

Remeber this and you'lll be wise:
A stare...a touch...a kiss
all are free gifts meant only for one
ok Daniel... that was a good one....

I like the way it mentions "for the one"..... :thfro:

[SuoBella]

I don't think sex is the only pure, special, and sacred gift God has given to a married couple.

It includes any other physical aspect of love. God provided multiple physical ways for a couple to show their affection for one another which includes kissing and touching.

So in other words, if you truly want to glorify God in your relationships, you'll save it for marriage.

[julia_toplean]

I think one should not do anything that will cause them to go furhter than intended. If kissing in such a manner keeps you from having self-control than don't do it. if you can handle kissing without the desire to go further until marriage then there is nothing wrong. But make sure both you and your partner agree on what is acceptable for both of you.

[tucurel]

And what does marriage mean anyways? Marriage the way i see it is a bond between a man and a woman to be with eachother and raise children. And who decides when a couple is actually married?
The Priest? The Judge? ...a bunch of documents that are signed? The elder of the tribe?
I mean who has the power to actually marry peoples? The church? How about me ? :D

I think marriage is only symbolic - what matters here is that the two lovers match and are serious about staying with eachother until death separates them... :really:
at least for the sake of the children...


Marriage means two things: a sacred covenant that you and your spouse make in front of God and the legal status that you should have with your spouse (for the sake of respecting the law). A CHRISTIAN couple may be committed (more or less) to one another before marriage, but when they swear in front of God that they will remain united, than they are taking a solemn vow. Just like with the court witnesses...what's the point of having them to take an oath of truth? In order so that they might be conscious and responsable of the words they are saying.

Two people which are "committed" to one another yet live outside the marriage will be more susceptible to leave one another since their commitment was not official (hence one can blame the other for not meeting his/her expectations). On the other side, a Christian married couple will encounter as well numerous problems, but because of their solemn vow taken in front of God they will remain together and solve out the respective problems. Within a Christian marriage there is no such thing as "irreconciliable differences". Why? Because any dispute would be taken to the Ultimate Reconciler - the one who made peace between the Almighty and Holy God and us, the humans.

In conclusion, there IS a great difference between "committed" couples and married couples.

[tucurel]

:screwy:
And who Speaks for God ? You tell me that please...... Some freakin Gay Lezbo Anglican Church female priest who can marry gays??? Is that a legitimate person that speaks for god and can perform marriages? I've seen that on TV. The problem is that everyone these days seems to interpret God as they choose (maybe you and me do that also), - but I look at the animal world where there are no gays, ( :) but also no wedding ceremonies, and surprsingly some of these little critters form a pretty strong bond, raise kids, take care of them. :nono: Ooo!! (And they dont have wedding rings on their fingers!! - :sick: ) -
You know what i think? Peoples these days have become worse then animals.
Take a look around.

Gay "priests" are indeed a recent "innovation" of religion. However, there are still numerous serious and godly pastors who can lead a wedding ceremony. Anyways, religious ceremony is not compulsory and is not a condition for receiving God's blessings in a marriage. However, you do need to register at the City Hall.

People are worse than animals simply because animals do not sin (since they do not have the knowldege of good and evil, but only a few basic instincts - maternal and self-preservation for instance). And not all the animals live a monogamous life. So your analogy is very limited.

[johnromo]

your breaking my heart!


:wow: ha??? y??? but, i love u! :hug:
:scratch: i don't get it! :uhuh:

btw im gonna try to install yahoo messenger, and i think it might work! :lifting: :lifting2:

[tucurel]

I told you that there are some exceptions to that sex before marriage thing on which god maybe wont send you into the "boiling pitts of hell". You live in the most morally corrupt country on earth, that places the least emphasis on marriage and familly values, instead more on money and hollywood porn industry so dont speak about marriage and sins please, - the one who is witout a sin, let him cast the first stone..
And about my flirting on the Chat, well again stop singling me out, we all do it, so throw stones at me if it makes you feel good - Me i dont care who are talk with, and i usually dont ask for their age, if they are nice and pleasant peoples to talk with, then thats all i care.

PS: remove that stalker thing from your signature, or i'll have you reported.


So are you saying that the standard of holiness should be relative to the morality of the world? :doh: Man, you have some revolutionizing ideas. While I have sinned more or less like you, at least I do not change my standards.

"Aim for perfection" says apostle Paul. That's what I am doing and with God's grace I will become more like Christ.


P.S. Remove the avatar with the picture of Corneliu Zelea Codreanu or I'll report you to the moderators

[icosmin]

Reading some of the forum topics I found that some of us agree with kissing and some don't. What kind of kissing are we talking about when in a courting relationship (notice NOT dating relationship)? To make it easier and to be very blunt: is licking, sucking and tonguing acceptable for a Christian or not? What's your opinion?

Personally (although difficult to realise in this society moulded by Hollywood's values) these things are not acceptable in a courting relationship. It's like a form of foreplay setting up your partner for sex but not going all the way.
You wouldn't start sanding and putting the undercoat on a wall if you have no intention in painting it. So why set someone up for sex if you have no intention to take it that far.
[Sex outside marriage is a sin! I don’t think I need to add this in.]

I hate to sound old fashion and unpopular but this is my view what is yours?

Kiss away! It's great plus it might enhance your immune system :D

[deleted account 6]

I find it interesting that some people say that it’s okay to kiss after your engaged or when you've with the 'one'.
If they are the one then marry him/her. This way you don't have to refrain from anything that might not be right, thus reducing all the risks of sinning without knowledge.

I re-enforce that I don't believe that all kissing is wrong. Greet each other with a holy kiss. BUT, how does one know if it’s a holy kiss they're giving their partner? Well one way would be:
Just think, would you give this sort of kiss to your grandparent, pastor, mom or dad?

God doesn’t like two sets of weights, two standards, one holy set of kissing for your partner and a different one for you brother/sister in Christ. Let be honest guys, please.


Having studied microbiology for years brother you do not know what you are talking about as far as immunity is concern. I can’t reason with you because you have no argument

[Lilly]

Your suppose to kiss on the lips after you get married. Butt even then, it can't be too disgusting. No tongues and stuff. But you every where else bside america, people greet by a hug and a kiss on each cheek.

[nihilo]

I find it interesting that some people say that it’s okay to kiss after your engaged or when you've with the 'one'.
If they are the one then marry him/her. This way you don't have to refrain from anything that might not be right, thus reducing all the risks of sinning without knowledge.

I re-enforce that I don't believe that all kissing is wrong. Greet each other with a holy kiss. BUT, how does one know if it’s a holy kiss they're giving their partner? Well one way would be:
Just think, would you give this sort of kiss to your grandparent, pastor, mom or dad?

God doesn’t like two sets of weights, two standards, one holy set of kissing for your partner and a different one for you brother/sister in Christ. Let be honest guys, please.


Having studied microbiology for years brother you do not know what you are talking about as far as immunity is concern. I can’t reason with you because you have no argument


man, stop putting all your opinions on god. since when are you (and the other non-kissers on this thread) the authority on what god wants us to do? a little arrogant, i think.

if you can't back up your claim with the bible, stop reading your biases and opinions into it. if you're not gonna kiss your fiancee before you're married, FINE! just don't make it sound like it's a sin, it's not.

man, where did all these wacky extremist views come from? i noticed that a lot of the authors of these threads are penti, so without trying to start a holy war, what the heck are penti preachers teaching their youth???? NO KISSING before marriage, but after that, you've got so much pent-up frustration, that you have 12 kids!!! nice.

so cut it out with the nonsense. stop being holier-than-thou. it annoys me frankly.

[flirtyromababe14]

i dont think theres anything wrong with kissing, u just gotta have ur limits and dont pass them....

[flirtyromababe14]

man, stop putting all your opinions on god. since when are you (and the other non-kissers on this thread) the authority on what god wants us to do? a little arrogant, i think.

if you can't back up your claim with the bible, stop reading your biases and opinions into it. if you're not gonna kiss your fiancee before you're married, FINE! just don't make it sound like it's a sin, it's not.

man, where did all these wacky extremist views come from? i noticed that a lot of the authors of these threads are penti, so without trying to start a holy war, what the heck are penti preachers teaching their youth???? NO KISSING before marriage, but after that, you've got so much pent-up frustration, that you have 12 kids!!! nice.

so cut it out with the nonsense. stop being holier-than-thou. it annoys me frankly.
im there with u on that one nihilo... theres nothing wrong with kissing and ppl should try to be bringing God into it and all and where does it say in the Bible that its bad to kiss and u should kiss after ur married??? wow, no offense to anybody, but i think thats insane.... thats just my opinion so nobody go off crazy on me. i believe in sex after marriage... but kissing after marriage?!??!?!.... thats crazy... how can u marry someone and never even have kissed them before ur marriage???? hmmmm.... welll, thats all i have to say....

[deleted account 6]

All the talk about limits. So what exactly are these limits? Elaborate please don't assume and make general remarks thinking everyone thinks like you.
God is so detailed that even the hair on our head is numbered, thus why would you have an activity that does not bring God into it. If there is nothing to be ashamed of then you can most definitely bring God into it.

The scripture say that an unmarried person seeks to please God but after marriage seeks to please their partner. Who are you seeking to please when inappropriately kissing (as defined in the first thread) your partner before marriage? If this is not biblical support then what is?
Apostle Paul said walk in my footsteps as I too walk in Jesus' footsteps. Can you say that about your opinion on this form of kissing? You should because there is nothing wrong with it, right? Thus if you were wrong (which 'obviously' you are not) you can take upon yourselves the penalty of all the sins of those who sin as a result of your teaching because in fact it is not a sin.

Grace Father give us strenght to love one another as Christ does the Church.
Dorin

[chachacha]

Fellow royouthers who are anti-kissing, the comments I've been reading so far are all OPINIONS. I didn't bother reading past the second page of this thread because it's pointless to argue my side. Mostly because you will come around with your childish comments/opinions about kissing before marriage which you strongly stand by thinking it's the only right answer. So this is MY own opinion and not some author who wrote a book about the ideal christian life: KISSING IS A GOOD THING! Shows that you actually care about the person that you are about to marry. If you truly were a good christian you wouldn't let your mind "wonder". Everyone's different. So therefore letting your mind "wonder" comes differently with every person. Obviously if you haven't kissed anyone you wouldn't know what you would think about. Maybe it's: "What if I kiss someone? Where will my mind be?" For goodness sakes. Once again I might not make sense because I didn't read any of the other posts. Thank you very much and I have nothing else to say. I'm outtie and God Bless you all. Want to further argue with me PM moi, because I'm open to discussions.

Charlene

[micutu]

man, stop putting all your opinions on god. since when are you (and the other non-kissers on this thread) the authority on what god wants us to do? a little arrogant, i think.

if you can't back up your claim with the bible, stop reading your biases and opinions into it. if you're not gonna kiss your fiancee before you're married, FINE! just don't make it sound like it's a sin, it's not.

man, where did all these wacky extremist views come from? i noticed that a lot of the authors of these threads are penti, so without trying to start a holy war, what the heck are penti preachers teaching their youth???? NO KISSING before marriage, but after that, you've got so much pent-up frustration, that you have 12 kids!!! nice.

so cut it out with the nonsense. stop being holier-than-thou. it annoys me frankly.

Ha ha ha!! thats alll i can do right now after reading this.....im totaly against everything u sayd...here whe ur wrong...I "I" havent seen anybody yet sayng that kissing is a sin on this thread in fact the thread bigan like this..........
Reading some of the forum topics I found that some of us agree with kissing and some don't. What kind of kissing are we talking about when in a courting relationship (notice NOT dating relationship)? To make it easier and to be very blunt: is licking, sucking and tonguing acceptable for a Christian or not? What's your opinion?

so therefore this thread was not made to condemn kissing before mariege or at least before the couple is serious about mariege,.. although Dorin dose condemn both, (i think)...but he did use the word "Personaly" therefore it was his opinion, and i didnt see him condemn anybody else...., well infact i belive the same thing that Dorin dose but that dosent matter......ok now back to what u sayd "just don't make it sound like it's a sin, it's not." :).......u wouldt want to know that ur not always right....ok its all good so fa,r but this is where ur really wrong, so without trying to start a holy war, what the heck are penti preachers teaching their youth???? NO KISSING before marriage, but after that, you've got so much pent-up frustration, that you have 12 kids!!! nice." Have u ever been into a Penti church? listened to a sermon by a penti preacher?? ( i was just askin,....for no reason..) I went to a penti church my whole life, my dad is a pastor and nobody told me that kissing a girl its a sin, but what I think its a sin is playng on such a slippery ground as it is the "American Dating System" lol where ppl want to go as far out as they can without actually falling off, but then when ppl do fall of they tend to say that "God, G.., G,.. God is good He forgives me" anyways I hope u understand that Penti preachears dont go around telin the Youth not to kiss, ..(the youth knows that allready, ..I hope)

NO KISSING before marriage, but after that, you've got so much pent-up frustration, that you have 12 kids!!! nice. and whats wrong with having 12 kids?? i know the bible says "...mergeti inmultitiva si umpleti pamantul.." (sorry i read a romanian bible)..................ok I myself am part of a big family I mean not 12, .....but...more :) are very blessed and we were always blessed and i find it Biblical that big families are a blesing from God, like i told u in the exaple above, and it also says that (...fiii nascuti la tinerete, sunt ca sagetile...) (....lol i dont remember the rest but u should know where it is in the bible ur baptist....and i wasnt implicit there)................one more thing when u sayd that "NO KISSING before marriage, but after that, you've got so much pent-up frustration, that you have 12 kids!!!" it got me thinking that we must have relationships that are not serious, so we can have less "pent-up frustration" once were maried, i hope u dont need biblical proof to know that its a sin....

[nihilo]

All the talk about limits. So what exactly are these limits? Elaborate please don't assume and make general remarks thinking everyone thinks like you.
God is so detailed that even the hair on our head is numbered, thus why would you have an activity that does not bring God into it. If there is nothing to be ashamed of then you can most definitely bring God into it.

The scripture say that an unmarried person seeks to please God but after marriage seeks to please their partner. Who are you seeking to please when inappropriately kissing (as defined in the first thread) your partner before marriage? If this is not biblical support then what is?
Apostle Paul said walk in my footsteps as I too walk in Jesus' footsteps. Can you say that about your opinion on this form of kissing? You should because there is nothing wrong with it, right? Thus if you were wrong (which 'obviously' you are not) you can take upon yourselves the penalty of all the sins of those who sin as a result of your teaching because in fact it is not a sin.

Grace Father give us strenght to love one another as Christ does the Church.
Dorin


man you just refuse to admit you have no biblical proof. everything you said is only your interpretation, and a lame one at that.

daca vrei sa citezi versete specifice, i would be happy to see what you have to say.

but don't take the bible out of context any more. neither you nor any other nonkissers have submitted any verse to back up your ridiculous claims.

it must feel good to you thinking you're superior to others. just like it did to the pharisees in jesus' time.

but i'm sure others see right through your bullhonkey as well...

[jo neetz15]

wow man i love this stuff u fell for it so bad its funny, well its getin kinda sad now that i see so many falling for this code, its really funny

/you you really do stink :)


wait who is this? y u say i stink? do i know you? i just took a shower lol.

[moe2006]

im there with u on that one nihilo... theres nothing wrong with kissing and ppl should try to be bringing God into it and all and where does it say in the Bible that its bad to kiss and u should kiss after ur married??? wow, no offense to anybody, but i think thats insane.... thats just my opinion so nobody go off crazy on me. i believe in sex after marriage... but kissing after marriage?!??!?!.... thats crazy... how can u marry someone and never even have kissed them before ur marriage???? hmmmm.... welll, thats all i have to say....
someone asked a similar question on another thread: "how can u marry someone without having sex with them???" I see it exactly like ur question... just because u kiss doesn't make it alright...

[dukey]

Everyone is pretty opinionated and others are seaking Biblical proof. Slow down a bit.

Saying, "You shouldn't kiss" or "You should kiss" is what people want to hear. They would rather be told what is right and wrong rather that think the process through. "All is permissable, but not all is beneficial." This means more than you think.

A problem I have found on these forums is that people want to be told what is right. It's very common among non-thinking Christians who want an answer, but won't think about the question. But Christ has done away with this legalistic mentally and brought something better. Let's use your example of kissing. Let's say I make the supposition that kissing is not morally wrong. However, knowing my weakness I set my own boundary of not kissing until marriage (not becuase i have to, but because I know my weaknesses).

You see, this is the beauty of grace. What happens now, is that kissing being right or wrong is NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is striving to please my Creator. That may involve me refraining from things that may bring sorrow to the Spirit of God.

Stop asking people what they think is right or what they think is wrong. God gave you a mind and a heart. Read God's opinion. Be sensative to His desires. Strive to bring him pleasure in all your actions, whether that is kissing or studying or playing or just living.

[MiesVanDerRohe]

Reading some of the forum topics I found that some of us agree with kissing and some don't. What kind of kissing are we talking about when in a courting relationship (notice NOT dating relationship)? To make it easier and to be very blunt: is licking, sucking and tonguing acceptable for a Christian or not? What's your opinion?

Personally (although difficult to realise in this society moulded by Hollywood's values) these things are not acceptable in a courting relationship. It's like a form of foreplay setting up your partner for sex but not going all the way.
You wouldn't start sanding and putting the undercoat on a wall if you have no intention in painting it. So why set someone up for sex if you have no intention to take it that far.
[Sex outside marriage is a sin! I don’t think I need to add this in.]

I hate to sound old fashion and unpopular but this is my view what is yours?
you can always prep the wall before you paint it, to use your illustration. and if your materials just can't get the wall to look good, it's always better to know it before you buy the house.

[amärâtu]

just think this.u are in front of the althar and the pastor says:"you can now kiss the wife".u are the wife or the houspand and in one second in ur head comes this.how many girls or boys did he or she kiss?to how many girls or boys did he or she sayd "i love you".would u feel the same knowing that he or she kissed other before you???would u still feel the "one" or the "choosen one"????the only man or woman of ur like??????to every girl or boy he or she said "i love you" or "kissed" he or she left a part of hi/her heart.think about it and conserve ALL YOURSELF for the RIGHT ONE, for God's choose , perfect choose for you!!!!!!!!!!
be blessed in His Name

[aeleneie]

it says in the bible to greet people with a holy kiss!

[CalinBisou]

Ha, saying is one thing...action is another. I'm telling you, you need to realize temptation comes in all forms. Let's say you are engaged but you told yourself you're not going to kiss him or her til the wedding day. A very noble idea and of course don't be kissing with prolonged, open kisses. That just doesn't help. But if you love him/her for goodness sakes, just give 'em a kiss on the cheek!!! What harm is there in that? Better you kiss them on the cheek or a small peck on the lips than to lust for him/her in your heart (as you fight the urge to kiss them) when they are not yet yours to think of in that manner.

[ConSumED]

i have my own opinion on this subject but us as christians, we should look to the Word to see what the bible says about kissing or about lust. opinions are not important infront of God. Biblical proof is. so us stating our own self based opinion means nothing...SOWWY

kissing can lead to lust and we all know lust is bad.......notice can....whinch means it can go both ways.

Ephesians 5:3 tells us, "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity...because these are improper for God's holy people." ..........there you go people. going into the foreplay relm is impure for unmaiiried couples which clearly not so good. ill go both ways on this....... try not to go past holding hands, hugging, light kissing(as some stated) stuff like that because other things will tempt you to do other things and if you're not tempted then something is wrong with you........God created us to have these feelings for one another but not to practice them outside of mariage.

[nihilo]

Everyone is pretty opinionated and others are seaking Biblical proof. Slow down a bit.

Saying, "You shouldn't kiss" or "You should kiss" is what people want to hear. They would rather be told what is right and wrong rather that think the process through. "All is permissable, but not all is beneficial." This means more than you think.

A problem I have found on these forums is that people want to be told what is right. It's very common among non-thinking Christians who want an answer, but won't think about the question. But Christ has done away with this legalistic mentally and brought something better. Let's use your example of kissing. Let's say I make the supposition that kissing is not morally wrong. However, knowing my weakness I set my own boundary of not kissing until marriage (not becuase i have to, but because I know my weaknesses).

You see, this is the beauty of grace. What happens now, is that kissing being right or wrong is NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is striving to please my Creator. That may involve me refraining from things that may bring sorrow to the Spirit of God.

Stop asking people what they think is right or what they think is wrong. God gave you a mind and a heart. Read God's opinion. Be sensative to His desires. Strive to bring him pleasure in all your actions, whether that is kissing or studying or playing or just living.


good point, but for some reason, our non-kissing folks will not admit to this. they just want to say it's unblibical accross the board, and NO kissing! it seems to me that they like to live by these legalistic rules that make them feel superior to others.

people like that bug me, regardless of the actual issue being discussed - whether it's kissing or birth control or whatever.

but like you said, that's the beauty of grace - if they choose to not kiss, fine! if others choose to kiss, fine! not all have the lack of self-control that the non-kissers describe. they think that if they are so focused on falling into sin by kissing someone, everyone else is the same.

[yo]

opinions left and right .... and those who dont agree with kissing want to potrait it as a sin outside marriage (ha , no bible verses to back it up = personal opinion)

nihilo is doing a great job proving u guys wrong ... but u dont get it, do u?

your eyes can make u lust ... take them out ... the bible says so, why wont u do it???????
kissing doesnt lead to lust, if u're christian it shouldn't , ok? if it does, u got other problems .... so dont blame it on kissing, blame it on your sick mind, on the fact that u can't control yourself, firea veche din noi ...

also under 18 i dont recommend it, because most likely whomever u kiss, wont ened up as your future spouse .... and besides that u're not mature enough to be able to fully understand what "love" is ... u think u do, but u dont, ok?

[CalinBisou]

i have my own opinion on this subject but us as christians, we should look to the Word to see what the bible says about kissing or about lust. opinions are not important infront of God. Biblical proof is. so us stating our own self based opinion means nothing...SOWWY

kissing can lead to lust and we all know lust is bad.......notice can....whinch means it can go both ways.

Ephesians 5:3 tells us, "But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity...because these are improper for God's holy people." ..........there you go people. going into the foreplay relm is impure for unmaiiried couples which clearly not so good. ill go both ways on this....... try not to go past holding hands, hugging, light kissing(as some stated) stuff like that because other things will tempt you to do other things and if you're not tempted then something is wrong with you........God created us to have these feelings for one another but not to practice them outside of mariage.


Consumed summed it up nicely, I think. I'll have to disagree with you guys that say "if you're a Christian and you kiss, and you're lusting, then you have problems..." It is a natural response when your hormones are stimulated by something like a kiss. It does not always mean you are sick. To lust means an INTENESE DESIRE OR CRAVING. No one ever wants just one hug or just one kiss at times. So if you aren't careful, you can EASILY lust by a kiss or even an embrace.

I agree with yo that if you are under the age of 18, kissing is more of a hormonal reaction than anything else. I'm not saying a person who is 16 can't really be in love, but that's fairly rare.

To me, kissing should be saved for one person only. For some they will wait even for a first kiss when they are married for others it will be (hopefully) light kisses and hugs during the courting period. Just be cautious of yourself and keep yourself from falling into sin by your thoughts or actions.

[ConSumED]

a pastor was counculing a young couple that lost their virginity.

the story was they were in the back seat of his car and they got tempted..........

WELLL DUUUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHH

well of course you did. if you didnt you have a problem.....i have the oppisate idea as yo. kissing does lead to other things or at least can lead to other things.....wheather you are christian or not you will get tempted dude.......just because you're a "christian" doesnt exclude you from temptation being a christian makes you a bigger target because the devil wants us to fall thats his goal.

its not about having a sick mind its the way God made us blame it on him......god made us to have these feelings buit not outside of marriage

[johnromo]

Your suppose to kiss on the lips after you get married. Butt even then, it can't be too disgusting. No tongues and stuff. But you every where else bside america, people greet by a hug and a kiss on each cheek.


wait what???????????? :flag:

ur kidding me right. so even after ur married u can't do the disguisting things? whats wrong with u woman? i feel sorry for the guy ur gonna marry.
and ur saying everywhere else besides america ppl r not doing what we r doing???? where do u think the word french kissing with the tongue came from?????? u haven't been to romania girl. u should c ppl doing it on the streets behind buildings and stuff. u have no idea how in other countries r. here things aren't as exposed as there. and ppl there do way worst things then just hug and kiss. :alig:

[!BARBIE!]

ok ok no more arguing every1 kiss and make up :p lol

[nihilo]

wait what???????????? :flag:

ur kidding me right. so even after ur married u can't do the disguisting things? whats wrong with u woman? i feel sorry for the guy ur gonna marry.
and ur saying everywhere else besides america ppl r not doing what we r doing???? where do u think the word french kissing with the tongue came from?????? u haven't been to romania girl. u should c ppl doing it on the streets behind buildings and stuff. u have no idea how in other countries r. here things aren't as exposed as there. and ppl there do way worst things then just hug and kiss. :alig:

right, we have to be so godly, that even after we're married, we should get close to our spouses for procreating only!
:screwy:

i guess the elite non-kissers have a different version of the bible that contains an extra commandment - THOU SHALT NOT ENJOY YOUR CHRISTIAN LIFE!

[!BARBIE!]

today's lesson kids:
kissing is not a sin,
but not all things r beneficial for u either...

[Yao_Ming2005]

right, we have to be so godly, that even after we're married, we should get close to our spouses for procreating only!
:screwy:

i guess the elite non-kissers have a different version of the bible that contains an extra commandment - THOU SHALT NOT ENJOY YOUR CHRISTIAN LIFE!

uh i never said that :whistle:

[61leumas]

kissing is ok but anything else outside of the marriage is not cause it alludes to foreplay which is the initiation of a sexual act which should take place only in marriage..

[moe2006]

it says in the bible to greet people with a holy kiss!
Yes... and the the tongue comes in and then if there's enough fellowship, the y'all get a room... :rolleyes:
ok ok no more arguing every1 kiss and make up :p lol
U wish ;)
today's lesson kids:
kissing is not a sin,
but not all things r beneficial for u either...
yes..... it's in Barbie 3:16..... :wall2:

:D


opinions left and right .... and those who dont agree with kissing want to potrait it as a sin outside marriage (ha , no bible verses to back it up = personal opinion)

nihilo is doing a great job proving u guys wrong ... but u dont get it, do u?

your eyes can make u lust ... take them out ... the bible says so, why wont u do it???????
kissing doesnt lead to lust, if u're christian it shouldn't , ok? if it does, u got other problems .... so dont blame it on kissing, blame it on your sick mind, on the fact that u can't control yourself, firea veche din noi ...

also under 18 i dont recommend it, because most likely whomever u kiss, wont ened up as your future spouse .... and besides that u're not mature enough to be able to fully understand what "love" is ... u think u do, but u dont, ok?
Do you have biblical proof to back up premarital kissing???

according to a part of your post, if our lips make us sin we cut them off right? How come you still got lips? :scratch: lolol ;)

and why only after 18??? I don't know many people that knew their spouses when they were 18... you might think we're opinionated, but you barely realize that you are as well...

[kingschild]

KISSING IS NOT OK.think of it like this...u date this girl u kiss her blah blah blah.and then u dump her.ur brother falls in love with her and marries her.will u be able to look at her the way u would have if udve never kissed her.?i would be totally grossed out.its not ok.if u find it as ok in the Bible let me know.
star

[tucurel]

Everyone is pretty opinionated and others are seaking Biblical proof. Slow down a bit.

Saying, "You shouldn't kiss" or "You should kiss" is what people want to hear. They would rather be told what is right and wrong rather that think the process through. "All is permissable, but not all is beneficial." This means more than you think.

A problem I have found on these forums is that people want to be told what is right. It's very common among non-thinking Christians who want an answer, but won't think about the question. But Christ has done away with this legalistic mentally and brought something better. Let's use your example of kissing. Let's say I make the supposition that kissing is not morally wrong. However, knowing my weakness I set my own boundary of not kissing until marriage (not becuase i have to, but because I know my weaknesses).

You see, this is the beauty of grace. What happens now, is that kissing being right or wrong is NOT THE ISSUE. The issue is striving to please my Creator. That may involve me refraining from things that may bring sorrow to the Spirit of God.

Stop asking people what they think is right or what they think is wrong. God gave you a mind and a heart. Read God's opinion. Be sensative to His desires. Strive to bring him pleasure in all your actions, whether that is kissing or studying or playing or just living.

This is by far the best post from this thread. Instead of thinking of how not to sin, Christians should be more eager to find ways to honor God.

The only thing I might add to this excellent post is that not all forms of kissing are permissible. There is a fine line between what is permissible (and thus, relative to our coinscience) and what is interdicted. I believe that every form of kissing which has the purpose of sexual arousal/foreplay is not allowed since apostle Paul tells us to not have "any kind of sexual impurity" among us. Other than that, if you think that decent and honest kissing is still a sin before marriage, don't do it AND stop criticizing other brothers and sisters who do it.

Again, THUMBS UP for the post!

[tucurel]

Ok there are various issues to this topic.

The first being teens kissing, which I'm against. Why? because there is a misconception of what dating is meant to be and what love is meant to be. Most teens kiss not because of love but due to lust. Moe2005 stated well that many teens know more about various ways to kiss than the stories in the New Testament. And many teens get hooked into the, "if you love me, you'll...." Kissing as a teen is mostly about peer pressure. If you do not put out, you're out.

The second being HOW we define love and affection. Many of you stated that society today displays love as pre-martial sex. How twisted the world has become to turn the very thing God made that is used in marriage as a 'short-cut' to people's sinful lusts. There are more than one way to say "I Love You" that doesn't require sex and even kissing. It is true that kissing is a sexual act because one kiss here can lead to impure thoughts.

I'll have to agree with nilhilo that saying you won't kiss is one thing, but when you find the one you are with, it is another thing. I'm not saying go out and kiss all you want but be careful! Kissing past the cheek or quick peck on the lips is most likely going too far. I told myself that I would kiss for the first time, the man I wanted to spend the rest of my life.... meaning, my first kiss would be my last. And I stuck to that. Nihilo is right, you will want to show affection beyond just the holding hands. Heck, if you're not careful, prolonged hugging can lead to sin too! Anywho, I believe kissing on the cheek is perfectly acceptable as well as a quick peck on the lips. But I agree that you've got to be VERY careful! For those of you who decided to wait until you are at the altar...kudos to you. I hope you can make it that far. Because it is very difficult.
If you read the Song of Solomon's, you'll notice that the couples does not resort to the physical acts in the beginning of their relationship. The Physical is saved for marriage. I only bring this up to emphasize that if a relationship is founded on the physical, you'll have nothing. Tommy Nelson has a great CD series on the Song of Solomon's that I highly recommend. Anyway, the point is, WHERE is your focus in the relationship?? Do you talk and discuss various issues of what you believe and where you stand? Do you know each other's likes and dislikes? Those are the things that matter. If you want to kiss him or her on the cheek, I see no harm in that. Your intentions should be honorable and pure. Just be smart and don't put yourselves in positions to be tempted beyond your control. A kiss isn't just a kiss.

I am intersted about the bolded parts. In the first paragraph, you admit that cautious kissing is OK (which I agree). However, in the second bolded sentence you say that Physical should be exclusively for marriage. The capital letter makes me to believe that you mean ALL kind of physical affection.
Therefore, if I am right in my supposition, wouldn't this be a contradiction of your first statement? Or by Physical you mean lustful activity? Please clarify me. Thank you.

[tucurel]

I don't think sex is the only pure, special, and sacred gift God has given to a married couple.

It includes any other physical aspect of love. God provided multiple physical ways for a couple to show their affection for one another which includes kissing and touching.

So in other words, if you truly want to glorify God in your relationships, you'll save it for marriage.


Intersting perspective you bring in here. From a theological point of view, it appears quite plausible; however in the real world it is very irealistic, almost utopic.

My opinion is this: God interdicts any lustful activity. If a kiss is not in this category, than God is OK. I may not glorify God if I kiss someone I love romantically, but I am sure that I do not sin (if I do it with clean thoughts).

Good point though. Good luck in your pursuit! :)

[CalinBisou]

I am intersted about the bolded parts. In the first paragraph, you admit that cautious kissing is OK (which I agree). However, in the second bolded sentence you say that Physical should be exclusively for marriage. The capital letter makes me to believe that you mean ALL kind of physical affection.
Therefore, if I am right in my supposition, wouldn't this be a contradiction of your first statement? Or by Physical you mean lustful activity? Please clarify me. Thank you.

Nah, it's just my inability to write clearly at times that my thoughts become jumbled. All I mean is, if you can refrain from kissing until you are married, then by all means, do it. But I see no harm in a kiss on the cheek or peck on the lips. Set limitations and know where you personally need to draw the line for yourself to remain pure in your thoughts. I find it hard to believe a deep, long kiss is a safe stopping point. The more conserative you are with your kisses, the better off you'll be. But that's my opinion.

Now what I meant by referring to the physical, you need to remember the context of which I was writing it, which was Song of Solomon. All I meant is, you need to place more emphasis on the relationship rather than the physical. Many teens need to stop lip locking and start praying together, studying God's Word together and discussing the important issues if they are truly serious about one another. Those things last. You can kiss you spouse-to-be as much as you want however you want once you are married. but the things of God are the things that will last and keep your marriage together. In Song of Solomon, the physical intimacy is more enforced once they are together, wed.

Anyway, all I meant was focus less on the physical when you aren't wed. How you interact with one another and your relationship with God is more crucial at that point. This is why many teens relationships fail because they aren't serious and allow their hormones to take over. Kissing does feel good but it'll feel even better when you have it founded under more substantial foundation...Jesus Christ.

Did I clear the confusion? sorry about that.

[tucurel]

I find it interesting that some people say that it’s okay to kiss after your engaged or when you've with the 'one'.
If they are the one then marry him/her. This way you don't have to refrain from anything that might not be right, thus reducing all the risks of sinning without knowledge.

I re-enforce that I don't believe that all kissing is wrong. Greet each other with a holy kiss. BUT, how does one know if it’s a holy kiss they're giving their partner? Well one way would be:
Just think, would you give this sort of kiss to your grandparent, pastor, mom or dad?

God doesn’t like two sets of weights, two standards, one holy set of kissing for your partner and a different one for you brother/sister in Christ. Let be honest guys, please.

Having studied microbiology for years brother you do not know what you are talking about as far as immunity is concern. I can’t reason with you because you have no argument

The holy kiss that apostle Paul mentions is NOT intended as a manifestation of ROMANTIC love, but of SPIRITUAL love. The italicized sentence makes me to believe that you do cannot make the distinction between romantic love and friendship (eros and agape).

I am skeptic of your confidence which is on the brink of transforming into arrogance. Do YOU have any arguments to demonstrate that kissing is morally wrong? (of course, I mean appropriate kisses, that is non-lustful).

[tucurel]

Nah, it's just my inability to write clearly at times that my thoughts become jumbled. All I mean is, if you can refrain from kissing until you are married, then by all means, do it. But I see no harm in a kiss on the cheek or peck on the lips. Set limitations and know where you personally need to draw the line for yourself to remain pure in your thoughts. I find it hard to believe a deep, long kiss is a safe stopping point. The more conserative you are with your kisses, the better off you'll be. But that's my opinion.

Now what I meant by referring to the physical, you need to remember the context of which I was writing it, which was Song of Solomon. All I meant is, you need to place more emphasis on the relationship rather than the physical. Many teens need to stop lip locking and start praying together, studying God's Word together and discussing the important issues if they are truly serious about one another. Those things last. You can kiss you spouse-to-be as much as you want however you want once you are married. but the things of God are the things that will last and keep your marriage together. In Song of Solomon, the physical intimacy is more enforced once they are together, wed.

Anyway, all I meant was focus less on the physical when you aren't wed. How you interact with one another and your relationship with God is more crucial at that point. This is why many teens relationships fail because they aren't serious and allow their hormones to take over. Kissing does feel good but it'll feel even better when you have it founded under more substantial foundation...Jesus Christ.

Did I clear the confusion? sorry about that.


So kissing enters in the category of activities which should be limitless after marriage, right? :)
You did clear the confusion, and you did it in a brilliant manner, by re-underlining the potential dangers of exagerrate kissing and the importance of according priority to other activities, the ones which edify your relationship and your characters in Christ. Proud of you, sister! :hug: :)

[tucurel]

The scripture say that an unmarried person seeks to please God but after marriage seeks to please their partner. Who are you seeking to please when inappropriately kissing (as defined in the first thread) your partner before marriage? If this is not biblical support then what is?
Apostle Paul said walk in my footsteps as I too walk in Jesus' footsteps. Can you say that about your opinion on this form of kissing? You should because there is nothing wrong with it, right? Thus if you were wrong (which 'obviously' you are not) you can take upon yourselves the penalty of all the sins of those who sin as a result of your teaching because in fact it is not a sin.

Grace Father give us strenght to love one another as Christ does the Church.
Dorin


I think you took Paul's example out of context. It is known that Paul, personally, was against even against marriage. Hence, examining his character in order to classify kissing as sin or not definitely is not appropriate.

You should know that the building of a marriage starts from the courthsip stage. If we wouldn't please others before marriage, then courthsip shouldn't bassically exist. Beyond its main purpose of examining the potential future spouse, it also has the role to begin a process of adjusting one's character to the other's expectations (after a clear commitment has been done).

And since we are talking about Paul, the I will remind you the episode where he says that if someone thinks that eating meat which was dedicated to the idols is a sin, then he should eat AND not judge the one who does so.

[CalinBisou]

So kissing enters in the category of activities which should be limitless after marriage, right? :)
You did clear the confusion, and you did it in a brilliant manner, by re-underlining the potential dangers of exagerrate kissing and the importance of according priority to other activities, the ones which edify your relationship and your characters in Christ. Proud of you, sister! :hug: :)


haha, why are you asking me that. If you haven't figured out that you can kiss your wife as often as you want then I suggest you drop whatever you are doing, run to her and lay a big ol' kiss on her lips. :clap1:

:scooter: hurry. what are you waiting for?? :p oh but be careful... :driving:

Anywho, glad I cleared it up for ya. Thanks dude.

[SaintJoe69]

moe, to me joshua harris means nothing. even his book is not the ultimate authority on the subject. so just like i have an opinion, you have an opinion. the only thing that matters is what the bible says.

and the bible definitely does not say you should not kiss before marriage. instead of telling 15 year olds not to kiss, teach them the right attitudes about relationships.

i don't mean go and kiss everyone in sight, i mean being in a relationship - there is nothing wrong with kissing.

joshua harris is lame imho. he took an opinion and made it doctrine. and those kinds of people always scare me. and they mislead a lot of generations of tineri.:lol2: Ummm... I guess I better post something valid, or this would be spam... :hmm:

There is nothing wrong with kissing, even before marriage. As with many things discussed on royouth, moderation is the key. Some of you speak from experience, while others simply speak nonsense. :whistle:

For those of you that view your future spouse as your "brother/sister", I think you need to find a shrink, since it appears you may have some sort of incestuous disorder. :sick:

[nihilo]

the pharisees also focused on the external/exterior aspects of their religion. however, even jesus called them fake, empty shells.

the problem with saying this is a sin or that is a sin (unless of course it obviously is a sin), it makes you focus on the exterior things. sin is mostly a matter of the heart.

so you can not kiss, but if you lust after someone in your mind/heart, that would actually be worse than kissing.

that's what i've been saying. and the ones who say kissing is wrong have a judgemental attitude towards the kissers, not the other way around.

it just makes the ones not kissing feel superior to the heathenous kissers - and that my folks is legalism and phariseeism at its worst.

i've always fought legalism, it's a poison in the christian church. anyone in doubt, read your bible, especially romans and galatians.

peace.

[tucurel]

haha, why are you asking me that. If you haven't figured out that you can kiss your wife as often as you want then I suggest you drop whatever you are doing, run to her and lay a big ol' kiss on her lips. :clap1:

:scooter: hurry. what are you waiting for?? :p oh but be careful... :driving:

Anywho, glad I cleared it up for ya. Thanks dude.

Apparently you didn't get it. The "limitless" adjective was an allusion to the NFP thread :p:
Anyways, I don't have a wife. That is only because I am still a minor :sad4: jk :laf:

Thanks for clarifying :)

[tucurel]

what the heck are penti preachers teaching their youth???? NO KISSING before marriage, but after that, you've got so much pent-up frustration, that you have 12 kids!!! nice.


They are trying to counteract the absolute lack of physical affection before marriage. It would actually be intersting to make a Christian study and examine if there is a correlation between the level of physical affection during courthsip and the number of kids :D

Sorry for the kissing Pentis out there...I didn't mean to be harsh. Come here to give you a hug :hug: :)

[chachacha]

opinions left and right .... and those who dont agree with kissing want to potrait it as a sin outside marriage (ha , no bible verses to back it up = personal opinion)

nihilo is doing a great job proving u guys wrong ... but u dont get it, do u?

your eyes can make u lust ... take them out ... the bible says so, why wont u do it???????
kissing doesnt lead to lust, if u're christian it shouldn't , ok? if it does, u got other problems .... so dont blame it on kissing, blame it on your sick mind, on the fact that u can't control yourself, firea veche din noi ...
also under 18 i dont recommend it, because most likely whomever u kiss, wont ened up as your future spouse .... and besides that u're not mature enough to be able to fully understand what "love" is ... u think u do, but u dont, ok?

:clap1: I agree with everything you said! :yeahdude:

[tucurel]

All the talk about limits. So what exactly are these limits? Elaborate please don't assume and make general remarks thinking everyone thinks like you.
God is so detailed that even the hair on our head is numbered, thus why would you have an activity that does not bring God into it. If there is nothing to be ashamed of then you can most definitely bring God into it.

1 Corinthinas 10: 23
Everything is permissible--but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible--but not everything is constructive.

Also, read 1 Corinthians 8:7

Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled

The above verse clearly shows that there are instances when a particular activity is neither wrong, nor right, but is relative to the conscience of the believer. And one more particular idea which results from Paul's letter (if you read the entire chapter) is that if (in such instances) you have a different opinion from some brothers or sisters, in no way should you be a stumbling block to them. That is (among other things) that you should not judge them.

[tucurel]

A few more verses which are VERYrelevant to this topic:

Phillipians 2: 3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

Collosians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

Collosians 2:16-23

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence[/COLOR].

God's pure truth. My brothers and sisters, I pray that this (plus the Corinthians example) clarifies the entire issue.



P.S. It may be applied to the NFP issue as well :p:

[tucurel]

Gosh, I just saw a "Kissing Secrets" google advertisement banner in the top right corner of the webpage. That makes me infer that royouth does condone premarital kissing :D

[ConSumED]

1 Corinthinas 10: 23
Everything is permissible--but not everything is beneficial. Everything is permissible--but not everything is constructive.

Also, read 1 Corinthians 8:7

Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled

The above verse clearly shows that there are instances when a particular activity is neither wrong, nor right, but is relative to the conscience of the believer. And one more particular idea which results from Paul's letter (if you read the entire chapter) is that if (in such instances) you have a different opinion from some brothers or sisters, in no way should you be a stumbling block to them. That is (among other things) that you should not judge them.

good research dude :yeahdude: :yeahdude:

[deleted account 6]

I am skeptic of your confidence which is on the brink of transforming into arrogance. Do YOU have any arguments to demonstrate that kissing is morally wrong? (of course, I mean appropriate kisses, that is non-lustful).

I admit the first sentence was out of line, irrelevant and inappropriate and I repent by asking all of you your forgiveness. Thank-you for bringing it to my attention, I am much appreciative of having enough love to correct me. I too have weaknesses and need to be prunned to bring good fruit for God's glory.

As for the second sentence if I am permitted to say "appropriate kisses, that are non-lustful" are completely fine with me and completely moral. It is a kiss that I would give my pre-marital partner, and to the same degree to my mother, for example. There is nothing morally wrong in this.

[ofelya]

[QUOTE=tucurel]A few more verses which are VERYrelevant to this topic:

Phillipians 2: 3
Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves.

Collosians 2:8
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

Collosians 2:16-23

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ. Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions. He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.

Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules: "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"? These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings. Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence[/COLOR].

God's pure truth. My brothers and sisters, I pray that this (plus the Corinthians example) clarifies the entire issue.




,, Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them''(john 13:17)

[tucurel]

I admit the first sentence was out of line, irrelevant and inappropriate and I repent by asking all of you your forgiveness. Thank-you for bringing it to my attention, I am much appreciative of having enough love to correct me. I too have weaknesses and need to be prunned to bring good fruit for God's glory.

As for the second sentence if I am permitted to say "appropriate kisses, that are non-lustful" are completely fine with me and completely moral. It is a kiss that I would give my pre-marital partner, and to the same degree to my mother, for example. There is nothing morally wrong in this.

You are very much forgiven, brother, and personally I am sorry as well and ask your apology if I was overzealous in making my point and if I offended any of you in any way.

I think the second paragraph pretty much solves the issue. What you said is perfectly right but incomplete, I might add. In my opinion the bolded words betray your hesitation to admit that you point is incomplete. Now the part of proving that you are incomplete...

If we examine Mathew ch. 5, we can see clearly the definition of lust spelled out by Jesus himself. That is "if you sin with her in your heart". Hence if I kiss someone and I do not lust in my mind, then I simply do not sin. If I do not kiss someone, but I do allow my mind to entertain, then I am sinning. Which scenario is worse?
In my opinion, the action of kissing enters in the category of ambiguous issues whose theological validity are simply relative to one's conscience/mind.

[amärâtu]

Ha, saying is one thing...action is another. I'm telling you, you need to realize temptation comes in all forms. Let's say you are engaged but you told yourself you're not going to kiss him or her til the wedding day. A very noble idea and of course don't be kissing with prolonged, open kisses. That just doesn't help. But if you love him/her for goodness sakes, just give 'em a kiss on the cheek!!! What harm is there in that? Better you kiss them on the cheek or a small peck on the lips than to lust for him/her in your heart (as you fight the urge to kiss them) when they are not yet yours to think of in that manner.

yo man, temptetion will come, the Bible says that but have u heard about 1Corinthians 10:13,just read it man.u will see what God has to say about temptation.it's not imposible to win.
God bless you /you

[tucurel]

,, Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them''(john 13:17)


Romans 7: 14-25

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. I know that nothing good lives in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[c] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. For what I do is not the good I want to do; no, the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.

So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me. For in my inner being I delight in God's law; but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? Thanks be to God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!

So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

[alin_126]

I personally think that kissing should be banned totaly. Last study that came out from Harvard university shows that Aids is transmited through kissing as well as any type of lethal disease

[icosmin]

I personally think that kissing should be banned totaly. Last study that came out from Harvard university shows that Aids is transmited through kissing as well as any type of lethal disease

On the other hand should you start making out (tongues and the whole 9 yards) and should you get sick, you have nothing more to loose, so you can go right ahead and french everyone in your path. Sweet life!

[alin_126]

I think that its a very important thing that you say here. Life is not as important as a kiss...and if its the tounge that does it why not unleash the beast

[icosmin]

I think that its a very important thing that you say here. Life is not as important as a kiss...and if its the tounge that does it why not unleash the beast

Dunno about y'all but I'd rather be sick among sick people and happy than healthy among sick people and unhappy.

The tongue is the key to unleashing the beast :P

[icosmin]

I personally think that kissing should be banned totaly. Last study that came out from Harvard university shows that Aids is transmited through kissing as well as any type of lethal disease

I see a business opportunity for kissing condoms - flavored of course, glow in the dark...

[alin_126]

Dunno about y'all but I'd rather be sick among sick people and happy than healthy among sick people and unhappy.

The tongue is the key to unleashing the beast :P

Yes sickness and happyness can go good together if the tounge is doing its job....i fully agree

[alin_126]

I see a business opportunity for kissing condoms - flavored of course, glow in the dark...

Why would u kiss that now? why not eat a flavoured candy

[icosmin]

Yes sickness and happyness can go good together if the tounge is doing its job....i fully agree


Zen and the art of black belt tongue-fu.

[tucurel]

I personally think that kissing should be banned totaly. Last study that came out from Harvard university shows that Aids is transmited through kissing as well as any type of lethal disease

Oh, Alin, Alin, Alin... :rolleyes:

[alin_126]

Oh, Alin, Alin, Alin... :rolleyes:
You know there is a song TU ALIN ALIN ALIN, NUMAI INIMI TU ALINI, very inspiring kissing song

[icosmin]

Why would u kiss that now? why not eat a flavoured candy

1) Candy doesnt move
2) Candy does not breathe heavily
3) Candy doesnt belong other places then the oral cavity.
4) You can still talk w/ someone else's candy in your mouth

[alin_126]

1) Candy doesnt move
2) Candy does not breathe heavily
3) Candy doesnt belong other places then the oral cavity.
4) You can still talk w/ someone else's candy in your mouth

SURE why not...so ur still gonna kiss after marriage?

[icosmin]

SURE why not...so ur still gonna kiss after marriage?

Methinks once you are married you need to kiss even more just like you did in the beginning. It is the most wonderful gift you can make to your spouse reminding them that you love them and don't take them for granted.

[alin_126]

Methinks once you are married you need to kiss even more just like you did in the beginning. It is the most wonderful gift you can make to your spouse reminding them that you love them and don't take them for granted.

WOW THAT'S SO ROMANTIC....really too romantic for a guy

[icosmin]

WOW THAT'S SO ROMANTIC....really too romantic for a guy

Hey man, why would you want to get married if you are going to slack off? What's the point?

[alin_126]

Ahm..... benefits and you get lots of lovin

[icosmin]

Ahm..... benefits

Strongly dissagree. It's dull not to mention imoral.

[alin_126]

Ahm so what didnt say what kind of benefits? Mircea Eliade said the following thing "esti considerat sincer numai atunci cand spui ceea ce vrea si ceea ce asteapta altul de la tine sa spui". Pai stii ce eu spun ce vreau si poate cineva cauta acelasi lucru ce caut si eu si atunci e bine

[icosmin]

Ahm so what didnt say what kind of benefits? Mircea Eliade said the following thing "esti considerat sincer numai atunci cand spui ceea ce vrea si ceea ce asteapta altul de la tine sa spui". Pai stii ce eu spun ce vreau si poate cineva cauta acelasi lucru ce caut si eu si atunci e bine

Pardon. esti sincer (in ochii altuia) doar daca.... Hai sa devenim mediocri, sa ne complacem in jocul social, sa fim foarte diplomati cu cei pe care nu-i suportam, hai sa ne compromitem ca doar toata lumea o face. Adica, tu-mi zici mie, ca daca o mina se spala pe cealalata totul devine OK?

[alin_126]

Pardon. esti sincer (in ochii altuia) doar daca.... Hai sa devenim mediocri, sa ne complacem in jocul social, sa fim foarte diplomati cu cei pe care nu-i suportam, hai sa ne compromitem ca doar toata lumea o face. Adica, tu-mi zici mie, ca daca o mina se spala pe cealalata totul devine OK?

Eu nu cred ca mediocritatea produce progres din potriva acea stagnare produce un regres important. De ce sa nu scoatem la iveala adevaratele ganduri cat de meschine si machiavelice ar fi ele pentru ca plecand de la o anumita idee poti sa schimbi lumea prin spalarea unei maini cu cealalta. Stii cum e pana la urma procesul asta se intampla in fiecare zi la fiecare dintre noi si nu vreau sa iau sensul peiorativ al ideii dar revenind la sarut BRING IT ON.....

[icosmin]

Eu nu cred ca mediocritatea produce progres din potriva acea stagnare produce un regres important. De ce sa nu scoatem la iveala adevaratele ganduri cat de meschine si machiavelice ar fi ele pentru ca plecand de la o anumita idee poti sa schimbi lumea prin spalarea unei maini cu cealalta. Stii cum e pana la urma procesul asta se intampla in fiecare zi la fiecare dintre noi si nu vreau sa iau sensul peiorativ al ideii dar revenind la sarut BRING IT ON.....

adio,-i ultimul sarut...
butuci zemosi de cramposeie
cu vita tot,cu vana-n lut
te-au fost mustit din bobi,femeie...

s-au dus in vant nescrise carti
prin codrul negru ,de campie,
de-au clatinat in multe parti
stirbiri,crampeie de hartie.

adio,dar; 'nainte mergi
spre dealuri cocosate...
m-au judecat la talpi cu vergi
descantece din paispe sate

dar n-ai stiut:cantarea in roti
si vremea-n crenge nu adasta
e spartul targului la Moti
si voi sa-mi cumpar o nevasta

de cand era Isus carpar
campia mea undind se scalda
cu crematuri si balegar
se-ngrase-n aburi jimbla calda.

ceresc parfum de jimbla calda

[alin_126]

Im so in love now....OMG :D

[anton_82]

........
Two people which are "committed" to one another yet live outside the marriage will be more susceptible to leave one another since their commitment was not official (hence one can blame the other for not meeting his/her expectations). .............


Oh, yeah? How about Hollywood marriages that last about two weeks, then couples divorce and get married to some other actor who is famous and has alot of cash... ? How about that ? Is that god's idea of marriage? If you were God, would you want people like that to get married? There is little love in such marriages, - its about money and fame and other interests.. For me there's no point in that. Some peoples have lost the meaning of marriage altogether.


Anyways, religious ceremony is not compulsory and is not a condition for receiving God's blessings in a marriage. However, you do need to register at the City Hall.


So the City Hall replaces the Church, and the Town Major and his paperwork can replace the Priest and the wedding ceremony. Interesting, i've learned something new today. :really:



People are worse than animals simply because animals do not sin (since they do not have the knowldege of good and evil, but only a few basic instincts -

You talk as if ALL Humans on earth had knowledge of good and evil, sin or no sin, whats write and wrong and whats moral or immoral.
Let me tell you something tucurel - Humans make the worst errors when it comes to judging what is right or wrong. Think of the Inquisition, the forced convertion of Indians by Spanish monks, the Crusades (and the plundering of wealth from these crusades), the burning of Witches, the wars, and "buying your way into heaven" by donating riches to the church.... :rolleyes: These things were done "in the name of the cross" - so i'm asking myself how can all that have happened when the most important commandment is not to kill....
I've seen plenty of "so called humans" with just the basic instinct that you mentioned, and others who are so 'divided' about 'morals' - simple things like homo marriage, rubbers, abortion (some consider that killing the unborn is a crime, others think that an unborn child is a 'parasite' -not a soon to be normal new born - and therefore its alright to kill it - so
You see for yourself how divided peoples are today, and what "moral decisions" they make.
-So from that I learned that 'morals' are not something long ago established...fixed.. "batute in cui" - they varry.... "My morals are different then yours, dont force them on me"..something like that :whistle: Peoples today tend to think this way..

.........
"Aim for perfection" says apostle Paul. That's what I am doing and with God's grace I will become more like Christ.


:worship:
If you want to be like Christ you will have to Sell your posessions, your home, and your computer, everything you own, wear the clothes of a begger and go help around.
How about you become 'Francis of Assisi', sell your clothes and go to heaven.
Maybe you'll find more disciples that will join your order. How about that. :saint1:

Not even the most devouted fanatic christian on this forum would give away his PC, his posessions and his well being, and live a modest life like Christ. It bet not one here would do such a thing - or living a miserable life while making life for others better - hoping that the "afterlife" would be more...rewarding. (but we romanians had such men in the past - ...and that brings me to my last point. you probably have no admiration for them the way you talk...


P.S. Remove the avatar with the picture of Corneliu Zelea Codreanu or I'll report you to the moderators

http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/2906/cap332jo.jpg

Codreanu is a martyr and is one of the Greatest men in Romanian history, a true patriot and a true Christian. The followers of his movement, which grew out of just a handfull of men, and soon had the support of the entire country deserves to be known by everyone young here. Few peoples here if any know about the Iron guard or about any Romanian history what so ever - if you dont mind .. :yeahdude: ;) , it like to make it a little more well known... :hello:

Many of them - "fought" for christ, "fought" for their nation and many welcomed death, willingly. Try finding me someone like that today!! And these were the true Christians, not those that just say they are, like some of them here..(so these were men of action, not just talk) - I admire them, and i was fortunate to have one of them in my familly, and their Leader, Codreanu -

i will not remove his image, It stands well where it is.

If it hits you personally - go ahead and report me.

[moe2006]

from kissing to a murderer.... :wall2:

anton_82: u need a life.... and BTW: what's up with all those wimpy threats I've been hearing about??? I went on rochat and ppl say u've been talking behind my back... sorry but nazis can't stand a chance.... :box:

[ConSumED]

If you want to be like Christ you will have to Sell your posessions, your home, and your computer, everything you own, wear the clothes of a begger and go help around.
How about you become 'Francis of Assisi', sell your clothes and go to heaven.
Maybe you'll find more disciples that will join your order. How about that. .


News flash thats not what Christ did. Even if you do that you still cant be Christ like......the way you become Christ like is following the Word and fulfilling what it says about living life

[nihilo]

you guys are WAY off topic. i never even heard of codreanu.

[tucurel]

Oh, yeah? How about Hollywood marriages that last about two weeks, then couples divorce and get married to some other actor who is famous and has alot of cash... ? How about that ? Is that god's idea of marriage? If you were God, would you want people like that to get married? There is little love in such marriages, - its about money and fame and other interests.. For me there's no point in that. Some peoples have lost the meaning of marriage altogether.


Cristian...with all due respect but what is God's fault that those people are not willing to follow His blueprint of marriage? How is he guilty for all the hypocrisy from the Christianity?
Just because some people are hypocrite that doesn't mean that you should renounce at some standards of Christianity (in order to not become like them, the hypocrites). The solution is to carry forward the flag of Christianity and set an godly example for as many people as possible. But by saying that the sacred act of marriage is not required, you are not a testimony to all those countless weak Christians. You are a tesimony only to those perishing couples who live in sin.



So the City Hall replaces the Church, and the Town Major and his paperwork can replace the Priest and the wedding ceremony. Interesting, i've learned something new today. :really:


It's not replacing. You would have to go to the City Hall anyways (since you must respect the law). It's just that as a Christian you are not oblidged to go and receive God's blessing from a priest. You can obtain it right from Himself. After all, He is "Abba", and we are His sons.




You talk as if ALL Humans on earth had knowledge of good and evil, sin or no sin, whats write and wrong and whats moral or immoral.
Let me tell you something tucurel - Humans make the worst errors when it comes to judging what is right or wrong. Think of the Inquisition, the forced convertion of Indians by Spanish monks, the Crusades (and the plundering of wealth from these crusades), the burning of Witches, the wars, and "buying your way into heaven" by donating riches to the church.... :rolleyes: These things were done "in the name of the cross" - so i'm asking myself how can all that have happened when the most important commandment is not to kill....
I've seen plenty of "so called humans" with just the basic instinct that you mentioned, and others who are so 'divided' about 'morals' - simple things like homo marriage, rubbers, abortion (some consider that killing the unborn is a crime, others think that an unborn child is a 'parasite' -not a soon to be normal new born - and therefore its alright to kill it - so
You see for yourself how divided peoples are today, and what "moral decisions" they make.
-So from that I learned that 'morals' are not something long ago established...fixed.. "batute in cui" - they varry.... "My morals are different then yours, dont force them on me"..something like that :whistle: Peoples today tend to think this way..

My beloved bother, I see your indignation so clearly, since I share it with a similar passion. Inquisition, Crusades, indulgences and all the other events which have spotted the Church's image are indeed a shame, but when those people have sinned "in the name of the cross" that doesn't mean that they had God's approval to do so. They invoked the authority of God just for their personal interests. The good news is that Salvation doesn't come through Church, but through faith in Jesus Christ. Thus, even though Church - the exponential institution of Christianity - is blemised, Christianity itself is and will be forever a pure and holy relationship between God and His children.

As about the moral relativism, the Bible tells us that many many people will be deceived throughout the ages (and the development of history confirms it). That's just another reason to stick to the Bible really tight. And guess what? The Bible tells the young people who are in love to marry. In this way, you will distinguish yourself from the blind couples who live a life of illusion, sin and pain. Again, as a Christian when you marry you do not associate yourself with all those hypocrites that end up on separate roads. When a Christian couple marries, the communion between the husband and the wife is associated with the communion between the Lamb and His Bride (that is the relationship between Jesus Christ, our Savior and the Church which is the body of believers, not the institution).



If you want to be like Christ you will have to Sell your posessions, your home, and your computer, everything you own, wear the clothes of a begger and go help around.How about you become 'Francis of Assisi', sell your clothes and go to heaven.
Maybe you'll find more disciples that will join your order. How about that. :saint1:

Not even the most devouted fanatic christian on this forum would give away his PC, his posessions and his well being, and live a modest life like Christ. It bet not one here would do such a thing - or living a miserable life while making life for others better - hoping that the "afterlife" would be more...rewarding. (but we romanians had such men in the past - ...and that brings me to my last point. you probably have no admiration for them the way you talk...

I must disagree with you. The bolded part is approximately what Jesus told to the apostles and to the rich man who asked Him about salvation. But if you notice, before ascending to Heaven He told the 500 that anyone who doesn't have a sword should buy one, whoever doesn't have shoes should get a pair etc.
A Christian is the one who ultimately crucifies his own nature and allows the Fruits of the Holy Spirit to grow in him. That is to be born again. But by becoming monks we would only isolate ourselves from the world and we would not fulfill the Great Comission - that is reaching to the unbelievers. We must not be OF the world but we must be IN the world.

As about Romanian religious extremists - I do not like extremists of any kind, including the Christian or Romanian ones. They most likely are hypocrites and they generally do not expose the Peace and Love of Christianity - two of its essential characterisitcs. Think of apostle Peter how zealous he was for Christ in the Garden of Ghetsimani, and how harshly was rebuked by Jesus Christ because of his violence.



Codreanu is a martyr and is one of the Greatest men in Romanian history, a true patriot and a true Christian. The followers of his movement, which grew out of just a handfull of men, and soon had the support of the entire country deserves to be known by everyone young here. Few peoples here if any know about the Iron guard or about any Romanian history what so ever - if you dont mind .. :yeahdude: ;) , it like to make it a little more well known... :hello:

Many of them - "fought" for christ, "fought" for their nation and many welcomed death, willingly. Try finding me someone like that today!! And these were the true Christians, not those that just say they are, like some of them here..(so these were men of action, not just talk) - I admire them, and i was fortunate to have one of them in my familly, and their Leader, Codreanu -
i will not remove his image, It stands well where it is.
If it hits you personally - go ahead and report me.

Codreanu is a horrible spot in the modern history of Romania. He founded the "Iron Guard", a political extremist group that promoted religious extremism combined with fascism. Not only that he did not succumb to the authorities, but he actually KILLED authorities, including the Mayor of Cluj Napoca and prime minister Ion Duca. Under his "regime", Romania experimented the highest political instability and greatest religious discrimination ever recorded in its history. He used religion (more precisely the Orthodox faith) as a tool of propagating his fascism. He was an antisemit, anti-Catholic and anti-Protestant. Because of his popularity among the plain Romanians, Orthodox priests (accompanied by supporters of the "Iron Guard") abused their Christian brothers, storming in their churches and taking the members prisoners for treason etc.
If you are proud to have such "heroic" ancestors I am proud to have as relatives martyrs who have been persecuted by the partisans of this man because of their faith.

Codreanu is simmilar with Pope Urban who has invoked religion to start the Crusades. It is your problem if you consider this man a model for you, but to be honest your appreciation of this man concerns me deeply as a brother.

[moe2006]

anton bro... someone needs to seriously pray for you... ur twisting everything up!!! If you don't believe in Christ, or have stupid ideas about him or us christians, sorry to say, but ur on the wrong website....

[SaintJoe69]

1) Candy doesnt move
2) Candy does not breathe heavily
3) Candy doesnt belong other places then the oral cavity.
4) You can still talk w/ someone else's candy in your mouth
Hey, did you kill Candy? :cantbe:

She was such a sweet girl, too. :rip:

[Tatyana]

i agree with most of you. i wouldnt want to marry a guy that has had his tongue in some girls mouths.

[flirtyromababe14]

i dont think kissing is a sin... it cant be. ppl have different opinions on this and my opinion is that its perfectly fine to kiss:). for me, its a way of showing affection... and i know that many of u guys might not agree with that... but its my opinion. if i wanna kiss, ill kiss... im not gonna have anything stopping me. dont get me wrong, im not gonna go around kissing random ppl. i've only kissed 2 guys. so yea... and it surely doesnt say in the Bible that its wrong to kiss, so whats all the commotion about :scratch::scratch::scratch:???

[johnromo]

i agree with most of you. i wouldnt want to marry a guy that has had his tongue in some girls mouths.

yea but the changes are u will! the changes of that is like 99.99 % hahaha! :lifting: :lifting2:

[johnromo]

i dont think kissing is a sin... it cant be. ppl have different opinions on this and my opinion is that its perfectly fine to kiss:). for me, its a way of showing affection... and i know that many of u guys might not agree with that... but its my opinion. if i wanna kiss, ill kiss... im not gonna have anything stopping me. dont get me wrong, im not gonna go around kissing random ppl. i've only kissed 2 guys. so yea... and it surely doesnt say in the Bible that its wrong to kiss, so whats all the commotion about :scratch::scratch::scratch:???

yea, but in the bible says that u should only give urself to one person. and plus in the bible doesn't say everything, but it does say u have a choice. good or bad. it might not say "don't kiss untill marriage or anything, but it does say don't lust another woman then ur wife. and also if u parents will tell u don't do it, and u do it anyways, thats straight up sinning. but, i do like what u said. :thfro: maybe we should kiss sometimes! :lol2:

[anton_82]

[img]http://www.royouth.com/forums/image.php?u=13642&dateline=1113705778]/img]
you guys are WAY off topic. i never even heard of codreanu.

:thumbsup: :D

It's better that you have'nt.

[moe2006]

i dont think kissing is a sin... it cant be. ppl have different opinions on this and my opinion is that its perfectly fine to kiss:). for me, its a way of showing affection... and i know that many of u guys might not agree with that... but its my opinion. if i wanna kiss, ill kiss... im not gonna have anything stopping me. dont get me wrong, im not gonna go around kissing random ppl. i've only kissed 2 guys. so yea... and it surely doesnt say in the Bible that its wrong to kiss, so whats all the commotion about :scratch::scratch::scratch:???
1. Sex is also another way to show affection... it's an excuse when u say what u said "it's a way of showing affection"

2. The Bible doesn't say u can kiss before marraige now does it???

[deleted account 6]

Hey guys I am not against kissing before marriage because we kiss all the time. When we greet each other depending on our relationship with the other person we might embrace and greet each other with a kiss.

The question was when in a courting relationship does kissing go beyond this form of kissing to licking, sucking and tonguing?
Certainly I would hate for someone to be doing something with my future wife that I would not do to their future wife and that is to be getting that intimate that licking, sucking and tonguing is involved.

I wouldn't be angry on my future wife but I would be on the other guy/s.
I know she's sooo irresitable but she's not for you to do whatever you want.

Learn wisdom from this sweetheart, pray, fast together, read the bible but watch out if you dirty her conscience

Guys take care

[HowBoutSumGravy]

Kissing is a means of getting two people so close together that they can't see anything wrong with each other.

God Bless.

[deleted account 6]

Kissing is a means of getting two people so close together that they can't see anything wrong with each other.

God Bless.

Interesting but I guess I'm not so smart to understand it? Help me out here mate
What are you saying by this?
Where were you heading with this post?
(What type of kissing are you talking about by the way?)

God bless ya too

[HowBoutSumGravy]

Interesting but I guess I'm not so smart to understand it? Help me out here mate
What are you saying by this?
Where were you heading with this post?
(What type of kissing are you talking about by the way?)

God bless ya too


Umm, you don't have to be smart to understand something as simple as this quote. I was heading no where with this post. It was simply sarcasm. I was just trying to make light of this subject, make it more humorous. Instead of such a "THOU SHALL NOT" tone. And I was talking about no particular kiss. This quote simply states that you're faces are so close together when kissing, that your eyes at the time will find no physical imperfections on his or her partner. Obviously, I mean how do you expect to study the persons physical attributes when all you have is eyes and a nose in front of you. It's that simple.

God Bless.

[moe2006]

I'll post a lil bit of something I read that impressed me about kissing..... later... it's 6 am and I didn't sleep in almost 24 hrs...

[nihilo]

I'll post a lil bit of something I read that impressed me about kissing..... later... it's 6 am and I didn't sleep in almost 24 hrs...

someone go give moe a BIIIIIG kiss - this boy don't know what he's missing. hahahahahahaa

[kingschild]

um no i dont think pp need to go kiss moe,i think hes perfectly fine.hmm,ima go wash the dishes.then go take a nap im so tired.star

[icosmin]

1. Sex is also another way to show affection... it's an excuse when u say what u said "it's a way of showing affection"

2. The Bible doesn't say u can kiss before marraige now does it???

The bible doesnt say you can use cars, go to malls and surf the web either.

[moe2006]

um no i dont think pp need to go kiss moe,i think hes perfectly fine.hmm,ima go wash the dishes.then go take a nap im so tired.star
oooo thx for taking my back ;)
The bible doesnt say you can use cars, go to malls and surf the web either.
last time I checked, cars, malls and surfing the web didn't have much to do with affection... :wall2:





ANYWAYS.... here's something interesting:


It's a package

Another way to put it is that we viewed kissing as part of the whole package of sexual union. And we didn't want to dissect the sex act into stages so we could justify enjoying more and more of lovemaking outside of marraige.

Many Christian couples have the conviction that sex should be saved for marraige. Unfortunately, all this really means is that they're saving intercourse for marraige. Do you see how ludicrous this is? Sex is so much more than just penetration. As John White puts it, "Defining coitus in terms of penetration and orgasm has as much moral significance and as much logical difficulty as trying to define a beard by the numbers of hair on a chin." He goes on to reveal just how silly it is to try to break the passion of love-making into stages.

[note from me, moe2005 - I'll skip a part of the next quote since I think it's unnecasary for royouth... it's about.... petting... :whistle: ]

".......which is worse, to pet with clothes off or to have intercourse with clothes on? You may accuse me of being crude. Far from it. If we pursue the arguement far enough, we will see that an approach to the morality of premarital sex is based on the details of behavior (kissing, dressing or undressing, touching holding, looking) and parts of the body can satisfy a pharisee. A look can be as sensual as touch, and a finger brushed lightly over the cheek as erotic as penetration."

[Later in the chapter.....] Bethany Torode writes: "I'm a sophomore in college with virgin lips. A few months after turning 16, I vowed to keep my "bow" tied until a man promises to commit himself to the whole package. My first kiss will be from my husband on our wedding day. Yes, that's quite a progression, from an inexpert kiss at the altar ro the complete unwrapping of the wedding night - believe me, my friends have pointed that out. Then again, Adam and Eve managed to figure everything out."

[Later she writes...] "God never intended the engagement period to be a time for physical experimenting, for peeking under the wrapping paper. Kissing - which quickly turns passionate when you are in love - carries a current intended to light a fire. In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word for kiss (nashaq) is derived from the primary root meaning "to kindle". I don't want to open the matchbox. We see this truth reflected in writings from scripture to literature that has endured for centuries. Song of Solomon 8:4 says not to arouse love until the right time. The fairy tales Sleeping beauty and Snow White have deep sybolic meanings: A kiss is (and should be) an awakening. I want to guard my fiance; I want him to be asleep to me until we are one before God. There are other ways of showing affection without arousing passion."

Phew finally!!! I thought it'd take all day to write... :p:

I got it from "boy meets girl: say hello to courtship" by (you guessed it) Joshua Harris. pp 162-165

what amazed me is that these are AMERICANS, not romanians... I got used to comments like "oh it's romanian tradition...." etc... but it's not. well peace out...

[icosmin]

oooo thx for taking my back ;)

last time I checked, cars, malls and surfing the web didn't have much to do with affection... :wall2:



Oh you should meet my room mate. The love of her life is Galleria Mall in Dallas. She cries when she gets in and becomes very depressed when she leaves it.

[kingschild]

ur welcome moe.u deserve it.too.
star

[kingschild]

i agree with what the lady said.in moe's post.i wouldnt wanna know that my husband had kissed with another woman besides me.and by the way.its not that hard not to kiss.u just learn to stay ur distance and make sure ur with friends if u know ull end up kissing that person.
anyway i need my nap.
later gaters,
star

[tucurel]

i wouldnt wanna know that my husband had kissed with another woman besides me.and by the way.its not that hard not to kiss.
star

Then don't ask him whether he ever kissed a girl ot not Simple as that! :icecream:

[tucurel]

ANYWAYS.... here's something interesting:


It's a package

Another way to put it is that we viewed kissing as part of the whole package of sexual union. And we didn't want to dissect the sex act into stages so we could justify enjoying more and more of lovemaking outside of marraige.

Many Christian couples have the conviction that sex should be saved for marraige. Unfortunately, all this really means is that they're saving intercourse for marraige. Do you see how ludicrous this is? Sex is so much more than just penetration. As John White puts it, "Defining coitus in terms of penetration and orgasm has as much moral significance and as much logical difficulty as trying to define a beard by the numbers of hair on a chin." He goes on to reveal just how silly it is to try to break the passion of love-making into stages.

[note from me, moe2005 - I'll skip a part of the next quote since I think it's unnecasary for royouth... it's about.... petting... :whistle: ]

".......which is worse, to pet with clothes off or to have intercourse with clothes on? You may accuse me of being crude. Far from it. If we pursue the arguement far enough, we will see that an approach to the morality of premarital sex is based on the details of behavior (kissing, dressing or undressing, touching holding, looking) and parts of the body can satisfy a pharisee. A look can be as sensual as touch, and a finger brushed lightly over the cheek as erotic as penetration."

[Later in the chapter.....] Bethany Torode writes: "I'm a sophomore in college with virgin lips. A few months after turning 16, I vowed to keep my "bow" tied until a man promises to commit himself to the whole package. My first kiss will be from my husband on our wedding day. Yes, that's quite a progression, from an inexpert kiss at the altar ro the complete unwrapping of the wedding night - believe me, my friends have pointed that out. Then again, Adam and Eve managed to figure everything out."

[Later she writes...] "God never intended the engagement period to be a time for physical experimenting, for peeking under the wrapping paper. Kissing - which quickly turns passionate when you are in love - carries a current intended to light a fire. In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word for kiss (nashaq) is derived from the primary root meaning "to kindle". I don't want to open the matchbox. We see this truth reflected in writings from scripture to literature that has endured for centuries. Song of Solomon 8:4 says not to arouse love until the right time. The fairy tales Sleeping beauty and Snow White have deep sybolic meanings: A kiss is (and should be) an awakening. I want to guard my fiance; I want him to be asleep to me until we are one before God. There are other ways of showing affection without arousing passion."

Phew finally!!! I thought it'd take all day to write... :p:

I got it from "boy meets girl: say hello to courtship" by (you guessed it) Joshua Harris. pp 162-165

what amazed me is that these are AMERICANS, not romanians... I got used to comments like "oh it's romanian tradition...." etc... but it's not. well peace out...


Moe, I partially agree with the author of that excerpt, but I believe that some things ought to be mentioned.

The author argues that since kiss is as erotic as a penetration then we should abstain from kissing our romantic friends. I bolded the parts which I will use in my explanation.

The author fails to mention that a look is sensual etc. IF YOU MAKE IT SO. As I said, if you have a weak conscience, DON'T DO IT!

What kind of awakening is the kiss? Are we, as unmarried Christians, entitled to have any physical manifestations for our romantic love? Wouldn't holding hands be an awakening as well?

The author is just simply too subjective. While being cautious is a must, one must not flee from every activity which has the potential to become sinful. Otherwise we would pretty much have to become monks. If you think you will sin, don't do it!

[BRIANNA]

KISSING IS NOT ALLOWED! a-ti auzit de legea insuficientei permanente? adica ceea ce te multumeste azi nu te mai multumeste maine....azi e holding hands....maine un kiss ....si ui asa ispita! asa ca fi-ti cuminti oameni buni! God bless you!

[moe2006]

Moe, I partially agree with the author of that excerpt, but I believe that some things ought to be mentioned.

The author argues that since kiss is as erotic as a penetration then we should abstain from kissing our romantic friends. I bolded the parts which I will use in my explanation.

The author fails to mention that a look is sensual etc. IF YOU MAKE IT SO. As I said, if you have a weak conscience, DON'T DO IT!

What kind of awakening is the kiss? Are we, as unmarried Christians, entitled to have any physical manifestations for our romantic love? Wouldn't holding hands be an awakening as well?

The author is just simply too subjective. While being cautious is a must, one must not flee from every activity which has the potential to become sinful. Otherwise we would pretty much have to become monks. If you think you will sin, don't do it!
well the author only quoted some things another author wrote. The author of this book (Joshua) mentions that they only held hands after they were engaged, but didn't kiss til marraige.

[tucurel]

KISSING IS NOT ALLOWED! a-ti auzit de legea insuficientei permanente? adica ceea ce te multumeste azi nu te mai multumeste maine....azi e holding hands....maine un kiss ....si ui asa ispita! asa ca fi-ti cuminti oameni buni! God bless you!

So then Christian unmarried couples should not manifest their love in ANY physical manner (including holding hands, looks, smiles).

The law of permanent insufficience is unnanimously valid among the non-Christian couples, or more precisely said among the couples who are not Christ-centered. If I am not part of such a couple and I know my limits, what should stop me from kissing my beloved?

[ofelya]

KISSING IS NOT ALLOWED! a-ti auzit de legea insuficientei permanente? adica ceea ce te multumeste azi nu te mai multumeste maine....azi e holding hands....maine un kiss ....si ui asa ispita! asa ca fi-ti cuminti oameni buni! God bless you!

Brianna, is it allowed to me only to say to my beloved ,,I kiss you''?

[ofelya]

[QUOTE=anton_82]Oh, ye

Codreanu is a martyr and is one of the Greatest men in Romanian history, a true patriot and a true Christian. The followers of his movement, which grew out of just a handfull of men, and soon had the support of the entire country deserves to be known by everyone young here. Few peoples here if any know about the Iron guard or about any Romanian history what so ever - if you dont mind .. :yeahdude: ;) , it like to make it a little more well known... :hello:

Many of them - "fought" for christ, "fought" for their nation and many welcomed death, willingly. Try finding me someone like that today!! And these were the true Christians, not those that just say they are, like some of them here..(so these were men of action, not just talk) - I admire them, and i was fortunate to have one of them in my familly, and their Leader, Codreanu -



:cantbe: Sorry,man, don't praise to the skies C.Z.Codreanu!If he had been a true Christian, how would he has assasinated important political men from the interbelic period? He was an anti-semitic and an anti-racist( see the death of Romo prime-minister Armand Calinescu).Humanity don't need this kind of hero. (The historical truth must be respected )

[BRIANNA]

copiii mei is allowed.......i know how is it when you're in love...go ahead and kiss each other....i know ca you wanna be blessed and you won't make mistakes...i just wanted to see what you think....in my opinion kissing is super allowed!....and you don't have to ask her if she wanna be kissed....love you guys!you're my bro and sis in Christ!

[sonnomoltobello]

Alright we all have are views and say we see nothing wrong. Before I said i saw nothing wrong, but untill I read Paruls writing to Timothy flee youthful lust that's when I realized that its wrong. You see you might think your strong enough on your own to fight sin wrong Paul said fllee it and much more when your kissing your not fleeing, but rathing sticking around it, and trying to fight it on your own, so who do we believe what people say what to believe or what the word of God says. We believe the word of God. All you listen to Paul and fllee it don't listen to mans words, but Gods. Joseph when he was iin slavery fled not kissed and didn't have sex, not doing sex doesn't mean neccasarily that one as a clean heart. Jesus said that does that have a clean heart will see the father. We want to see the father. I do not believe the youth that says kissing oh I just kiss, but have a clean heart. Wrong having a clean heart means to have only Gods Rightousness in it. That means only Jesus Christ. Psalm 23. says the Lord is my Shepard. who's your guys shepard the lord or your own believe. This is how you can tell that someone is in the hands of God when he/she doesn't say what he or she believes, but what the lord says. The word is a lamp unto my feet. Psalm 119. verse 105. says, not peoples words. Repenting means to turn from our ways and come to the lord, and let him be a follower in christ like is twelve disciples were. Paul said walk in my footprints as i also walk in christs. Lets not walk in others footprints, but in pauls and people that walk in Gods. Amen. Be saved all you from this perverse generation.

[A&A]

[QUOTE=Dorin][COLOR=Navy]these things are not acceptable in a courting relationship. It's like a form of foreplay setting up your partner for sex but not going all the way.
You wouldn't start sanding and putting the undercoat on a wall if you have no intention in painting it. So why set someone up for sex if you have no intention to take it that far.
QUOTE]

doesnt courtship show an intention to have sex with somebody?

[Visarion]

Finaly! Someone who think like me!
IS VERY TRUE!
GOD BLESS US!

[Visarion]

There is man! Bible has every answer you just have to search carefuly!\
But tell me were in Bible write you should kiss a girl? :confused:

[deleted account 6]

these things are not acceptable in a courting relationship. It's like a form of foreplay setting up your partner for sex but not going all the way.
You wouldn't start sanding and putting the undercoat on a wall if you have no intention in painting it. So why set someone up for sex if you have no intention to take it that far.

Doesnt courtship show an intention to have sex with somebody?

Courtship and dating are two different things. I do not use courtship loosely in exchange for dating. No courting does not show an intention to have sex with somebody, marriage does, that is after marriage.

Without judging your thoughts, I ask :
Is the main reason someone is marrying is to release sexual tention? It is biblical to marry for this reason. For Paul says if you burn inside it is better for you to marry but this does not mean you do so blindly because you are giving satan territory that you should have dedicated to God. God should guide your marriage not lust.

Courtship should not have at its foundation and as its ultimate target sex or releasing sexual tension but finding the spouse with whom you will spend the rest of your life with, (divorce is never an option absolutely never, not even in the case of an affair). Courtship is the place to find a spouse for whom you are responsible before God to support not just materially, but emotionally and most important spiritually, along with other important factors, including those that will arise later on in life, such as children.

My advice to young people who are not yet married, even to those who at the present time are not even considering marriage in the long term:
pray for your future spouse that God will give them victory in their everyday battles, have days of fasting for your future family, be creative and write e-letters to your future partner even if you don't know their name. Don't build your life on the future but practice your commitment even from now. How will you know to pray for your spouse if you did not do so when you had time? When will you find time for fasting if you did not learn healthy habits while you were young?

May the Lord's face shine upon us and give grace, may we grow to be fruitful for His glory

[deleted account 6]

copiii mei is allowed.......i know how is it when you're in love...go ahead and kiss each other....i know ca you wanna be blessed and you won't make mistakes...i just wanted to see what you think....in my opinion kissing is super allowed!....and you don't have to ask her if she wanna be kissed....love you guys!you're my bro and sis in Christ!

I sooo wanted to give you rep for your previous entry but it wouldn't go through. Turning to the next page I don't regret it now. I'm surprised at how easily you go with the flow.
If you wanted to see what people think there are tens of entries on this thread that do just that. Sorry if I am too harsh on you but you really disappointed me because you took on two extremes. At one point no kissing at all, now don't even ask for permission to kiss, go right ahead. What made you change so quickly?

Many blessings and God be with you

[ofelya]

I sooo wanted to give you rep for your previous entry but it wouldn't go through. Turning to the next page I don't regret it now. I'm surprised at how easily you go with the flow.
If you wanted to see what people think there are tens of entries on this thread that do just that. Sorry if I am too harsh on you but you really disappointed me because you took on two extremes. At one point no kissing at all, now don't even ask for permission to kiss, go right ahead. What made you change so quickly?

Many blessings and God be with you

I think that it is better to kiss than to oscilate between two extremes :p:

[dpeaches84]

Dorin..u assume that all ppl dating have the intention of sex..if this were true every couple that every dated would have had sex..now u know thats not true..

[KrazyEuro]

kissing is totally permissable, but is it beneficial? :scratch: i though the bible tells us to greet eachother with a Holy kiss. Now God created Kissing. Its an intimate thing the Lord created for us humans to enjoy, if done apropiately. what is that? :scratch: i donno, i just dont think its right to kiss anybody you want, sometimes i think that its not good to kiss your girlfriend. AHHH :wall: i donno, all i know is that i say all these things, but when/if i get a girl, i'd probably kiss her on the first date :wall2: so i wont be a hypocrite in this. I just like kissing, its passionate. You can tell alot from a kiss. What exactly? :lol2: one thing is if they have soft lips. another thing you know is if they're sloppy or asa, nice and cute :bfro: ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kissing is a beautiful thing :(

[!BARBIE!]

u seem a little confused shredder... but i c where ur coming from
i guess every1 is entitled to an opinion :)

[johnromo]

KISSING IS NOT ALLOWED! a-ti auzit de legea insuficientei permanente? adica ceea ce te multumeste azi nu te mai multumeste maine....azi e holding hands....maine un kiss ....si ui asa ispita! asa ca fi-ti cuminti oameni buni! God bless you!



copiii mei is allowed.......i know how is it when you're in love...go ahead and kiss each other....i know ca you wanna be blessed and you won't make mistakes...i just wanted to see what you think....in my opinion kissing is super allowed!....and you don't have to ask her if she wanna be kissed....love you guys!you're my bro and sis in Christ!


:icecream: ok thats my point. which one is it brianna? u can't go back and forth. stick with an answer :tut:

[61leumas]

:icecream: ok thats my point. which one is it brianna? u can't go back and forth. stick with an answer :tut:


i think you're asking too much from her to choose one side..cause her words may not agree with her actions...and she might get called on that by someone that reads her response....

[tucurel]

Without judging your thoughts, I ask :
Is the main reason someone is marrying is to release sexual tention? It is biblical to marry for this reason. For Paul says if you burn inside it is better for you to marry but this does not mean you do so blindly because you are giving satan territory that you should have dedicated to God. God should guide your marriage not lust.


Eliberating sexual tension should not be a primary reason for marriage. A couple that decides to kiss should do it moderately, otherwise two things are most liley to happen:
the act of kissing will loose from its tender and romantic significance and secondly, the principle of permanent insufficience will come into play. That's why a person shouldn't date or court untill he/she is ready to get married. If you start dating from a young age, your sentiments will evolve fast and by the time you finish highschool you will certainly want to marry.

Judging from my own experience, I definitely appreciate the couples that decided to not kiss untill marriage as long as this decision does not cause them to sin at a mental level. It would have been ideal to be able to not kiss my girlfriend, but since I do not regard this act as a sin I just go with heart of course keeping my eyes on my actions.
My indignation is towards the people who judge the couples that decided to allow kissing. These brothers and sisters most likely aren't involved in a romantic relationship, hence have no clue about physical attraction in the context of a relationship.



Courtship should not have at its foundation and as its ultimate target sex or releasing sexual tension but finding the spouse with whom you will spend the rest of your life with, (divorce is never an option absolutely never, not even in the case of an affair). Courtship is the place to find a spouse for whom you are responsible before God to support not just materially, but emotionally and most important spiritually, along with other important factors, including those that will arise later on in life, such as children.
My advice to young people who are not yet married, even to those who at the present time are not even considering marriage in the long term:
pray for your future spouse that God will give them victory in their everyday battles, have days of fasting for your future family, be creative and write e-letters to your future partner even if you don't know their name. Don't build your life on the future but practice your commitment even from now. How will you know to pray for your spouse if you did not do so when you had time? When will you find time for fasting if you did not learn healthy habits while you were young?

May the Lord's face shine upon us and give grace, may we grow to be fruitful for His glory

A loud AMEN to your prayer! And I add the following: Don't wait untill marriage to crucify your human nature. If you have a constant sin that hinders your relationship with our Lord, then bring it up to him and solve it NOW! Otherwise, chances are that the same sin will hinder your relationship with your future spouse. Be holy as our Father is holy!

[tucurel]

kissing is totally permissable, but is it beneficial? :scratch:

Yes, this is the core issue. Can a relationship fade away if moderate physical affection (such as kissing) is abolished?

Personally, I would still love my girlfriend with the same passion if she would suddenly decide to ban kising (oh, my beloved, if you read those lines, don't do it, I beg you! :hug: )

However, I know at least one case of a couple which was engaged and they broke the engagement because she interpreted his ban of pre-marital physical affection (moderate one, like kissing) as an irreconciliable incompatibility.

[tucurel]

I sooo wanted to give you rep for your previous entry but it wouldn't go through. Turning to the next page I don't regret it now. I'm surprised at how easily you go with the flow.
If you wanted to see what people think there are tens of entries on this thread that do just that. Sorry if I am too harsh on you but you really disappointed me because you took on two extremes. At one point no kissing at all, now don't even ask for permission to kiss, go right ahead. What made you change so quickly?

Many blessings and God be with you

What makes you so sure that she wasn't sarcastic? :hmm:

[moe2006]

What makes you so sure that she wasn't sarcastic? :hmm:
lol she was being sarcastic.... TOO sarcastic :p:

[anton_82]

My beloved bother, I see your indignation so clearly, since I share it with a similar passion. Inquisition, Crusades, indulgences and all the other events which have spotted the Church's image are indeed a shame, but when those people have sinned "in the name of the cross" that doesn't mean that they had God's approval to do so. They invoked the authority of God just for their personal interests. The good news is that Salvation doesn't come through Church, but through faith in Jesus Christ. Thus, even though Church - the exponential institution of Christianity - is blemised, Christianity itself is and will be forever a pure and holy relationship between God and His children.

As about the moral relativism, the Bible tells us that many many people will be deceived throughout the ages (and the development of history confirms it). That's just another reason to stick to the Bible really tight. And guess what? The Bible tells the young people who are in love to marry. In this way, you will distinguish yourself from the blind couples who live a life of illusion, sin and pain. Again, as a Christian when you marry you do not associate yourself with all those hypocrites that end up on separate roads. When a Christian couple marries, the communion between the husband and the wife is associated with the communion between the Lamb and His Bride (that is the relationship between Jesus Christ, our Savior and the Church which is the body of believers, not the institution).

I must disagree with you. The bolded part is approximately what Jesus told to the apostles and to the rich man who asked Him about salvation. But if you notice, before ascending to Heaven He told the 500 that anyone who doesn't have a sword should buy one, whoever doesn't have shoes should get a pair etc.
A Christian is the one who ultimately crucifies his own nature and allows the Fruits of the Holy Spirit to grow in him. That is to be born again. But by becoming monks we would only isolate ourselves from the world and we would not fulfill the Great Comission - that is reaching to the unbelievers. We must not be OF the world but we must be IN the world.

As about Romanian religious extremists - I do not like extremists of any kind, including the Christian or Romanian ones. They most likely are hypocrites and they generally do not expose the Peace and Love of Christianity - two of its essential characterisitcs. Think of apostle Peter how zealous he was for Christ in the Garden of Ghetsimani, and how harshly was rebuked by Jesus Christ because of his violence.

Codreanu is a horrible spot in the modern history of Romania. He founded the "Iron Guard", a political extremist group that promoted religious extremism combined with fascism. Not only that he did not succumb to the authorities, but he actually KILLED authorities, including the Mayor of Cluj Napoca and prime minister Ion Duca. Under his "regime", Romania experimented the highest political instability and greatest religious discrimination ever recorded in its history. He used religion (more precisely the Orthodox faith) as a tool of propagating his fascism. He was an antisemit, anti-Catholic and anti-Protestant. Because of his popularity among the plain Romanians, Orthodox priests (accompanied by supporters of the "Iron Guard") abused their Christian brothers, storming in their churches and taking the members prisoners for treason etc.
If you are proud to have such "heroic" ancestors I am proud to have as relatives martyrs who have been persecuted by the partisans of this man because of their faith.

Codreanu is simmilar with Pope Urban who has invoked religion to start the Crusades. It is your problem if you consider this man a model for you, but to be honest your appreciation of this man concerns me deeply as a brother.


Dont call me brother, please keep that sarcasm away, I like peoples that show it, not say it, and the legionaires that you despise so much, as well other great men who died in that war and who were willing to give their lives for one another - these were real "brothers" and comrades, not those that sitt on the couch all day or in front of the computer, dont eat meat on Friday, go to Church every sunday, dont kiss ( :laf: ), and are pretending to be "real Christians". Bush pretends to be a real Christian, and waging a "holy crusade", - i tell you if it means to be a true Christian by belonging to this modern crusader army, fighting for big money, oil :money: , and new world order, i'd rather convert to a muslim.


Inquisition, Crusades, indulgences and all the other events which have spotted the Church's image are indeed a shame, but when those people have sinned "in the name of the cross" that doesn't mean that they had God's approval to do so.

Thats what I was telling you - Peoples interpret "God's Will", as they choose. Nobody knows what is god's will. The Bible is vague with many issues - leaving room for interpretation. There is no mention to kissing either :D , so peoples just believe what they want to believe.
What does "thy shall not kill mean" ? You can kill animals can't, but for food - not for game,.
Alright so if it applies to humans. - you can kill in self defence, cant you... you not just gonna stay there and let a man hit you with an axe on your head repeateadly. (you cant turn your other cheek in this case,) Self defence killing is even recognized by the church, - but again, the church can be wrong. "Spreading Christianity" allover the world - sure but what about letting other peoples worshiping their own god? (Must we convert them by force? )
Where is that mentioned in the bible ?

As about Romanian religious extremists - I do not like extremists of any kind, including the Christian or Romanian ones. They most likely are hypocrites and they generally do not expose the Peace and Love of Christianity

*youve been told to quit cursing, next time I'll erase the whole post*

-skylineGTR_guy
10/18/05


Codreanu is a horrible spot in the modern history of Romania. He founded the "Iron Guard", a political extremist group that promoted religious extremism combined with fascism. Not only that he did not succumb to the authorities, but he actually KILLED authorities, including the Mayor of Cluj Napoca and prime minister Ion Duca. Under his "regime", Romania experimented the highest political instability and greatest religious discrimination ever recorded in its history. He used religion (more precisely the Orthodox faith) as a tool of propagating his fascism. He was an antisemit, anti-Catholic and anti-Protestant. Because of his popularity among the plain Romanians, Orthodox priests (accompanied by supporters of the "Iron Guard") abused their Christian brothers, storming in their churches and taking the members prisoners for treason etc.

Codreanu combined the strongest sentiments true Romanians of those days had.
Nationalism and Religion. Both are very romanian, and both go well together. He build his movement to fight the growing communist threat- which was anti-christian and anti-romanian in nature. The FACT that Jews were the brains behind the revolutions taking place, and supporting and helping to bring communism to romania is the true reason he was against them. If you call codreanu anti-semite and fascist, maybe you want to call Eminescu our national poet as well, :need: , I'd say he was quite a natioalist (a biiiiig ""fascist""" :D ) and an anti semite himself. (and so were most great intelectuals in romanian history),- I reccomend you read the book Armata Maresalul si Evreii by Alex Mihai Stoenescu, and see for yourself how the Romanian army retreating from Bassarabia in 1940 was treated by the Jewish poppulation, and how the jewish locals helped bring the red army into the county, plundered churches killed priests and raised the red flag on top of them. So i dont really appreciate when you try to 'divide christians' and taking the jewish side of things. For one thing, Jews love to see Christians divided and poking eachothers eyes out, and ocasionally, they help them too...

Under his "regime", Romania experimented the highest political instability and greatest religious discrimination ever recorded in its history.

The "discrimination" was Political - not Religious. Codreanu dispised Jews for their Support of Communism ,for their international money power, for their controll of the economy, for the decai they had caused in romanian society and for corrupting Romanians and turning them against one another. (just like today).
As for me - i had no great iron guard commanders in my familly, dont be scarred, only one that was a young student legionary, but he's long dead now. But i still believe the movement
had a good purpose, and had some of the best men in romania in it, uncorruptible, and great idealists, who talked less and did more... and who stood for Nation and Faith, - both of which are being weakened and eroded today as you very well know.
So i really dont get you - you either dont know what and who's behind it, or you simply think that doing nothing and praying to god will solve things. God help you ""tucurel"" but you got to move your behind and do something too...
:nono:

[BRIANNA]

I sooo wanted to give you rep for your previous entry but it wouldn't go through. Turning to the next page I don't regret it now. I'm surprised at how easily you go with the flow.
If you wanted to see what people think there are tens of entries on this thread that do just that. Sorry if I am too harsh on you but you really disappointed me because you took on two extremes. At one point no kissing at all, now don't even ask for permission to kiss, go right ahead. What made you change so quickly?

Many blessings and God be with you

i didn't change my opinion, i'm still antikissing....:))teoretic...u know teoria ca teoria dar practica ne omoara! have you ever been in love? don't tell me you weren't tempted!....may God bless you!

[BRIANNA]

i think you're asking too much from her to choose one side..cause her words may not agree with her actions...and she might get called on that by someone that reads her response....

you're right kiddo!

[SaintJoe69]

doesnt courtship show an intention to have sex with somebody?No... paying the opposite gender $50 to follow you to your motel room shows an intention to have sex. :D

[OoRomoQToO]

I think kissing is fine as long as you have SELF CONTROL..lol..if you don't then i suggest u wait till u get married LOL :p:

[BRIANNA]

No... paying the opposite gender $50 to follow you to your motel room shows an intention to have sex. :D

i like your "sarcasm"...do you have any experience? :twak: ...jk....God bless you!

[SaintJoe69]

i like your "sarcasm"...do you have any experience? :twak: ...jk....God bless you!Yes. I was walking by and heard you tell that guy that $50 is more than you normally get paid. :lol2: JK :D

[deleted account 6]

Dorin..u assume that all ppl dating have the intention of sex..if this were true every couple that ever dated would have had sex..now u know thats not true..
Where did this idea come from? I never said nor assumed something like that.

[deleted account 6]

Eliberating sexual tension should not be a primary reason for marriage.
NO absolutely. Eliberating sexual tension should NOT be the primary reason for marriage. I was answering a post that asked "By dating aren't you showing intention to have sex with the person" which I take it as been ultimately after marriage. Certainly in marriage it is the only place to become one with your spouse without sinning, but if someone dates just to become one with their spouse at this level in marriage then :nono:

My indignation is towards the people who judge the couples that decided to allow kissing. These brothers and sisters most likely aren't involved in a romantic relationship, hence have no clue about physical attraction in the context of a relationship.
Exactly my point physical attraction in the context of a relationship is so powerful, how can you resist not kissing your partner?
Personally and everyone can answer this on their behalf I have no problem with people that have decided to allow kissing. We all have free will and if our heart does not condemn us and we are growing in Christ what do I care what someone chooses to do? I won't be held responsible for your actions.

Hey guys I am not against kissing before marriage because we kiss all the time. When we greet each other depending on our relationship with the other person we might embrace and greet each other with a kiss.

The question was when in a courting relationship does kissing go beyond this form of kissing to licking, sucking and tonguing?
Certainly I would hate for someone to be doing something with my future wife that I would not do to their future wife and that is to be getting that intimate that licking, sucking and tonguing is involved.

I wouldn't be upset on my future wife but I would be on the other guy/s.
I know she's sooo irresitable but she's not for you to do whatever you want.

Learn wisdom from this sweetheart, pray, fast together, read the bible but watch out if you dirty her conscience

Guys take care
Does anyone know who my future wife is? No, so therefore I suggest you be careful with ANY girl you date. Why? Because 1) she might be my future wife, 2) you will be a High Priest in your family and a dating relationship, holds a lot of responsibility on you as a male. That is why I would not be upset on my future wife because she was just being obidient to God's Word and giving you a chance to practice you High Priest responsibilities of which you MIGHT have taken advantage.

[dpeaches84]

Where did this idea come from? I never said nor assumed something like that.

Well since u contrast dating and courting so extremely and state that (see below).. u are making a statment that courting shouldnt be for sexual reasons, so then dating is assumed to be for this reason according to u, thats how i got ur statement.. its like u make it allll about sex..dont u think ppl are a lil less shallow in having an interest in some else? but yea we ultimately do need God firstly..

"Without judging your thoughts, I ask :
Is the main reason someone is marrying is to release sexual tention? It is biblical to marry for this reason. For Paul says if you burn inside it is better for you to marry but this does not mean you do so blindly because you are giving satan territory that you should have dedicated to God. God should guide your marriage not lust.

Courtship should not have at its foundation and as its ultimate target sex or releasing sexual tension but finding the spouse with whom you will spend the rest of your life with, (divorce is never an option absolutely never, not even in the case of an affair). Courtship is the place to find a spouse for whom you are responsible before God to support not just materially, but emotionally and most important spiritually, along with other important factors, including those that will arise later on in life, such as children."

[deleted account 6]

I didn't change my opinion, I'm still anti-kissing....:)Teoretic...You know teoria ca teoria dar practica (praftica) ne omoara! Have you ever been in love? Don't tell me you weren't tempted!....May God bless you!
I am not very good with sarcasm when in writing, I have to feel your tone of voice. (Hope you got my rep this time).
I am not completely antikissing as I have explained in previous posts. As for being tempted everyone can be tempted even if they aren't going out. You can be tempted in your mind as Tucurel points out carefully all the time.

God bless you abundantly too Brianna and everyone that reads this post God bless you too.

[deleted account 6]

Well since u contrast dating and courting so extremely and state that (see below).. u are making a statment that courting shouldnt be for sexual reasons, so then dating is assumed to be for this reason according to u, thats how i got ur statement.. its like u make it allll about sex..dont u think ppl are a lil less shallow in having an interest in some else? but yea we ultimately do need God firstly...
I see what you mean but my definition of courting and dating obviously are not the same as yours. It would take many words to explain fully what my definitions are without leaving something out that might appear contradictory or extreme. So I simply cannot sum up dating and courting in a sentence or two.
Let's just leave at the fact that my definition and yours are different and hopefully this will fix everything.

Many blessings.
Friends? :hug2:

[icosmin]

I see what you mean but my definition of courting and dating obviously are not the same as yours. It would take many words to explain fully what my definitions are without leaving something out that might appear contradictory or extreme. So I simply cannot sum up dating and courting in a sentence or two.
Let's just leave at the fact that my definition and yours are different and hopefully this will fix everything.

Many blessings.
Friends? :hug2:

Dating = I think I like you, let's do the horizontal tango, hang out then split.
Courtship = I think I like you, you are kinda nice, I want more from you, my mom wants to meet you. And somewhere on that road - let's tango (or lambada).

[moe2006]

kissing is totally permissable, but is it beneficial? :scratch: i though the bible tells us to greet eachother with a Holy kiss. Now God created Kissing. Its an intimate thing the Lord created for us humans to enjoy, if done apropiately. what is that? :scratch: i donno, i just dont think its right to kiss anybody you want, sometimes i think that its not good to kiss your girlfriend. AHHH :wall: i donno, all i know is that i say all these things, but when/if i get a girl, i'd probably kiss her on the first date :wall2: so i wont be a hypocrite in this. I just like kissing, its passionate. You can tell alot from a kiss. What exactly? :lol2: one thing is if they have soft lips. another thing you know is if they're sloppy or asa, nice and cute :bfro: ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh kissing is a beautiful thing :(
the first part of ur post is good... and agreeable...

the second part..... I would HATE to disagree... but for some reason, I'm feelin' ya!!! :p: (even though I never kissed before :eek: ) and I won't only kiss some girl.... she'd have to be either the one... or the one who made me think she's the one.... :bfro:

Yes. I was walking by and heard you tell that guy that $50 is more than you normally get paid. :lol2: JK :D
:laf::laf::laf::laf: I couldn't help but laugh my pants off on this and ur previous post.... it was a burn!!!

[tucurel]

i didn't change my opinion, i'm still antikissing....:))teoretic...u know teoria ca teoria dar practica ne omoara! have you ever been in love? don't tell me you weren't tempted!....may God bless you!

Sarutul decent capata statutul de ispita daca tu insuti i-l acorzi (adica daca consideri sarutul pacat). Ce pacat! :D

[tucurel]

Does anyone know who my future wife is? No, so therefore I suggest you be careful with ANY girl you date. Why? Because 1) she might be my future wife, 2) you will be a High Priest in your family and a dating relationship, holds a lot of responsibility on you as a male. That is why I would not be upset on my future wife because she was just being obidient to God's Word and giving you a chance to practice you High Priest responsibilities of which you MIGHT have taken advantage.

I see your point, but I pose you the following challange: will you express any kind of romantic feelings (pure ones, of course) to your future girlfriend (who will be courted by you) before marriage? In the category of any kind I include even love declarations, love poems, absolutely everything that pertains to Eros.

The reason why I ask you this is the following. You argue that one should not kiss his romantic partner before they marry. Your reasoning behind that is there is a reasonable chance of not marrying the respective person, hence you will "cheat" your eventual spouse (if she will be different from the actual romantic partner). Under the perspective of your thinking, wouldn't any kind of romantic manifestation constitute an act of "cheating" (in case that your romantic partner will differ from your future spouse)?

I recall that infidelity does not resume only to physical acts, but it may also be of platonic nature. For instance, one husband shouldn't tell another woman (other than his wife) that he loves her romantically.

[BRIANNA]

Sarutul decent capata statutul de ispita daca tu insuti i-l acorzi (adica daca consideri sarutul pacat). Ce pacat! :D

sarutul pacat? get real! cred ca e cat se poate de normal intre doua persoane care se iubesc! e un mod de a-si arata afectiunea....ce truda...doar nu o sa se uite cei doi la cartoons all the time....mai tre sa se si kiss....gbu!

[BRIANNA]

Yes. I was walking by and heard you tell that guy that $50 is more than you normally get paid. :lol2: JK :D


i guess you were dreaming! are you talking about yoursefl or about Santa? and kiddo that's not a nice joke!gbu!

[tucurel]

sarutul pacat? get real! cred ca e cat se poate de normal intre doua persoane care se iubesc! e un mod de a-si arata afectiunea....ce truda...doar nu o sa se uite cei doi la cartoons all the time....mai tre sa se si kiss....gbu!

Scumpa, ori e laie ori e balaie, decide-te odata.


P.S. Nu te-ai prins de exclamatia retorica :)

[tucurel]

Dorin&CO., I'm waiting for your replies on my second last post :)

[icosmin]

i guess you were dreaming! are you talking about yoursefl or about Santa? and kiddo that's not a nice joke!gbu!

SaintHoe69 is community property. Even I know that.

[alin_126]

SaintHoe69 is community property. Even I know that.

HAHAHAHAHA i agree....what can you do to community property? Can you vandalize it?

[icosmin]

HAHAHAHAHA i agree....what can you do to community property? Can you vandalize it?

You can do whatever, for free.

[alin_126]

Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiice...i want a piece

[flirtyromababe14]

in my opinion, kissing isnt wrong at all... we all have different opinions on it and have different experiences. for me, kissing is fine, i dont see anything bad about it...

[BRIANNA]

Scumpa, ori e laie ori e balaie, decide-te odata.


P.S. Nu te-ai prins de exclamatia retorica :)

tu nu stii ca never sa nu spui ceea ce gandesti! so take it cum vrei! se intituleaza diplomatie sovietica:))...gb!

[icosmin]

Asa fetele! Faceti valuri, poate-i mai dezinhibati si p-astia.

[deleted account 6]

I see your point, but I pose you the following challenge: will you express any kind of romantic feelings (pure ones, of course) to your future girlfriend (who will be courted by you) before marriage? In the category of any kind I include even love declarations, love poems, absolutely everything that pertains to Eros.

The reason why I ask you this is the following. You argue that one should not kiss his romantic partner before they marry. Your reasoning behind that is there is a reasonable chance of not marrying the respective person, hence you will "cheat" your eventual spouse (if she will be different from the actual romantic partner). Under the perspective of your thinking, wouldn’t any kind of romantic manifestation constitute an act of "cheating" (in case that your romantic partner will differ from your future spouse)?

I recall that infidelity does not resume only to physical acts, but it may also be of platonic nature. For instance, one husband shouldn't tell another woman (other than his wife) that he loves her romantically.
Dearest brother for whom I have a great deal of respect,
I just want to let you know what some churches/pastors teach young people who are considering marriage, (these are not all Romanian, and in fact they are mostly American). They say that if you find a girl that you like and that likes you and you are considering courting her you are not allowed to talk to the girl about MARRIAGE at all. You can go out together for an ice cream and talk about the weather; you know stuff like that but not about marriage.
The girl has the responsibility to bring you to her father and you can talk to her father about these things. All your love letters, “love declarations, love poems, absolutely everything that pertains to Eros” are delivered to her father (if you dare to take just anything) which the father will discern whether to pass down to his daughter or not. The father will discuss your questions with his daughter on your behalf.

Before I go further, I just want to say that this excellent. It eliminates any unnecessary dating; it builds a strong bond between the guy and the in-laws which is a good foundation especially important in the future for your children/ their grandchildren. This just goes to show that the girl must be a great girl because she listens to her male authorities under which she is (her father, later on her husband who will have great responsibilities before God for his family) and she has a great relationship with her father. This form of courting would be something that I would like my future children to undertake and I would not be embarrassed to talk about my courting years with my future children. It would also eliminate any of those comments "But dad when you were young you did these things). Remember what parents tolerate moderately, children excuse in excess. Excellent quote this one. Think about it for a moment longer please.

As you can see I also look in the long run what are the consequences. I call it ‘thinking Godly’ because God can see not just the present but the past and the future and thus He weighs all His decisions.

If I cannot find a girl that is willing to undertake this form of courting I would seriously question her fathers authority on her, her relationship with her father and male companions, her intentions for the courting which might turn out she had not intention of marrying but would rather date and split. I'm just a nice guy to be with till she finds someone else; “Better with someone than with no one” she might say.

Of course not everyone has both parents (though you could use another figure of authority in that girl’s life) not everyone has Christian parents who want their Christian children to marry a Christian. There are other problems that now are more prominent in our society but judging from your writing you are not in such a situation. If you are or someone else reading this; God does improvise in very rare circumstances, so pray if nothing else works and God will open your eyes especially well for you because He is your ultimate Father in such instance.

So the answer to your question whether you do the above or not is: Will you be embarrassed to show the father of the girl you dated (whom you don’t end up marrying) the letters and material after you marry the special one? If not, then superb brother but if you are then I suggest you get a person in authority such as a parent or TRUSTED pastor to supervise your courting for which both of you have honest intentions such that if all works out you will marry.

It's not a popular idea among young people but I would rather have my relationship on the hands of those with experience entrust by God with authority over me and that can be held responsible, than 'sa fac cum ma taie capul' and no REAL experience.

Glad you asked brother. God bless you abundantly and your current girlfriend. May you be blessed at your arrival and may you be blessed as you depart, may you be blessed always.

Your brother in our Lord Jesus Christ

[nihilo]

holy cows! are you guys still on this topic??? talk about beating a dead horse...