Old Testament = garbage???

[moe2006]

The title says it all. Maybe you all do not understand where I'm getting at wor what I'm trying to say. As some of you might be able to see from my posts on royouth, I engage in many Biblical debates and discussions. One thing I learned real fast is that the Old Testament is thrown out of many debates. When someone mentions that it says something in the Old Testament, the other person dismisses it right away. Now if we believe in Grace and not the Law anymore, why do we still have the Old Testament. I am currently reading a book about this which makes points about it, but those are the author's views on this subject. What do you think? Why don't we just rip the Old Testaments out of our Bibles instead of just ignoring it. I am not talking about a specific person or a specific debate. I am talking in general because I encountered this in many debates. I personally read the Old Testament and give it as much credit as the new testament.

Now should the Old Testament still be read and obeyed or not?

[Morice]

Im thinking that we still have it to see examples and to learn from them...

[colt]

In BIBLIE scrie cä cine va scaote ceva din ea i se vas lua dreptul de a intra in impärätie lui Dumnezeu si cine va adäuga ceva le ea i se va adäuga toate belestele cere sunt scriese in Biblie.
Iar altundeva scrie cä totoatä Biblia este insuflatä de Dumnezeu si de folos ... :
[B][2.Timotei 3:16] Toată Scriptura este insuflată de Dumnezeu şi de folos ca să înveţe, să mustre, să îndrepte, să dea înţelepciune în neprihănire,
[2.Timotei 3:17] pentru ca omul lui Dumnezeu să fie desăvârşit şi cu totul destoinic pentru orice lucrare bună.


Asa cä eu stiu cä nu poate fi anulat Vechiul Testament ... sau cel putin ar fi räu sä se anuleze Vechiul Testament. In Vechiul Testament sunt tote profetiile care se inplinesc in Noult testament.
Si ce priveste Harul ... este clar cä noi nu mai suntem supt Lege ci supt Har ... DAR ISUS a spus cä el NU a venit sä desfinteze Legea ... ci sä o inplineascä ... asa cä este valabilä si pentru noi.

Cam atät am avut eu de spus ... :rolleyes:

[moe2006]

Im thinking that we still have it to see examples and to learn from them...
That doesn't really answer the question, but it's your answer. It's much more than that. Here's an example. If it wasn't for the Old Testament, Jesus' sacrifice would be nothing!!! The people used animals as sacrifices for their sins to show that something had to die... something had to be sacrificed for their sins. That is what made Jesus' death the most important sacrifice!!!

[dosescud]

The New Testament completes the old. They go hand in hand. It is interesting Moe how you give the old testement just as much credit as the New... check out one of your posts

"Find something in the NT to back all this up and I just might believe y'all." http://www.royouth.com/forums/showpost.php?p=351225&postcount=327

[moe2006]

In BIBLIE scrie cä cine va scaote ceva din ea i se vas lua dreptul de a intra in impärätie lui Dumnezeu si cine va adäuga ceva le ea i se va adäuga toate belestele cere sunt scriese in Biblie. [bineinteles cä nu scrie exact asa cum am parafrazat eu, dar cam acolo duce]
Iar altundeva scrie cä totoatä Biblia este insuflatä de Dumnezeu si de folos ... :


Asa cä eu stiu cä nu poate fi anulat Vechiul Testament ... sau cel putin ar fi räu sä se anuleze Vechiul Testament. In Vechiul Testament sunt tote profetiile care se inplinesc in Noult testament.
Si ce priveste Harul ... este clar cä noi nu mai suntem supt Lege ci supt Har ... DAR ISUS a spus cä el NU a venit sä desfinteze Legea ... ci sä o inplineascä ... asa cä este valabilä si pentru noi.

Cam atät am avut eu de spus ... :rolleyes:
I agree with you, dar dece sunt cuvintele din vechiul testament puse mai jos ca cum nu sunt importante? Dece, cand discutam Biblia, multi spun ca vechiul testament nu e mai valabila pentru zilele de azi. Eu am facut acest thread sa vad ce feluri de scuze sau ce opinii aveti despre acest subiect. :)

[moe2006]

The New Testament completes the old. They go hand in hand. It is interesting Moe how you give the old testement just as much credit as the New... check out one of your posts

"Find something in the NT to back all this up and I just might believe y'all." http://www.royouth.com/forums/showpost.php?p=351225&postcount=327
Yes I was one that used this arguement because some people take some stuff from the Old Testament and mix it into a debate that has nothing to do with it. I believe they both go hand in hand: The new testament wouldn't exist without the old one. I give the same credit to both but find the new testament more important for us these days.

[colt]

I agree with you, dar dece sunt cuvintele din vechiul testament puse mai jos ca cum nu sunt importante? Dece, cand discutam Biblia, multi spun ca vechiul testament nu e mai valabila pentru zilele de azi. Eu am facut acest thread sa vad ce feluri de scuze sau ce opinii aveti despre acest subiect. :)
Nu ar trebuie sä fie asa ... Cuväntul lui Dumnezeu are aceasi valoare ... deci valoarea maximä.
Asa este multi vin si se scuzä cä nu mai suntem supt Lege ci supt Har ... dar dacä facem risipä de acest Har care a fost plätit cu un pret foarte mare pe Golgota vom fi judecati mai aspru (mai strict) de cät cei care au fost supt Lege.
Bine ar fi dacä ar intelege toti acestea :sureee:

[KrazyEuro]

That doesn't really answer the question, but it's your answer. It's much more than that. Here's an example. If it wasn't for the Old Testament, Jesus' sacrifice would be nothing!!! The people used animals as sacrifices for their sins to show that something had to die... something had to be sacrificed for their sins. That is what made Jesus' death the most important sacrifice!!!


Moe, the Old testament scriptures DO NOT erase what happened in the Old testament. If we were to take the old testament out of the bible, it wouldn't matter. It does not erase what Jesus did on the Cross. The fact that Jesus came and he spoke, we now live by His words. If we were to take everything in the old testament and apply it today, i would go stone those false prophets at the church. Salvation was not a message in the Old testament, so naturally, we cannot refer back to the old testament as much when referring to salvation. The new testament is the new covenant between God and man.

[moe2006]

Moe, the Old testament scriptures DO NOT erase what happened in the Old testament. If we were to take the old testament out of the bible, it wouldn't matter. It does not erase what Jesus did on the Cross. The fact that Jesus came and he spoke, we now live by His words. If we were to take everything in the old testament and apply it today, i would go stone those false prophets at the church. Salvation was not a message in the Old testament, so naturally, we cannot refer back to the old testament as much when referring to salvation. The new testament is the new covenant between God and man.
That's not true. We wouldn't know the value of the sacrifice Jesus did if it weren't for the Old Testament...

[KrazyEuro]

That's not true. We wouldn't know the value of the sacrifice Jesus did if it weren't for the Old Testament...


moe, when the Gospel was presented to me on numerous occasions, nobody ever referred me back to the old testament. When i present the Gospel, i dont refer back to the Old testament. To some people, it just doesn't matter. The fact of the Old testament is the Laws in which man had to keep and we couldn't keep it. But even the world itself testifies that the 10 commandments exists. We had them in our court systems. The new testament explains the purpose of the Laws and how it's significant in the new testament. Yah, as christians, the old testament is amazing full of cross references of old testament prophecies and sacrifices and so forth. But when presented with teh Gospel, the old testament is not needed. All that is needed is that we're sinners, and through Christ we have salvation. So when discussing salvational issues, old testament is not necessarily needed. It's very plain in the NT.

[yacko]

That's not true. We wouldn't know the value of the sacrifice Jesus did if it weren't for the Old Testament...

Knowing the Old Testament is not a requirement for salvation. Consequently, the Old Testament is irrelevant as pertaining to being saved. When one comes to Christ he is not told "... go forth and read the Old Testament and then you shall receive salvation..." As a matter of fact, one does not need know the New Testament either. Knowing how to read is not a requirement for salvation. To push the issue even further, reading the Bible is not a requirement for salvation either. The value of Christ's sacrifice stands on its own, without the Old or New Testaments. Since the beginning of Christianity, people have been saved upon hearing the Word (the Word as the absolute truth, and not the barely coherent ramblings that pass for sermons in our churches these days), and being saved upon believing it, through the work of the Holy Spirit.

Now someone like Moe may ask, "... why bother to read the Bible or the Old Testament...?" I read the Bible because I have not memorized it. I need to constantly read and reread those texts to learn and relearn the lessons contained therein. Think of the Old Testament as a history book. It describes the events that prepared humanity for the coming of the Mesiah. The maxim "history repeats itself" is as true today as it ever was. By reading the Old Testament we get a glimpse of history as seen through the eyes of people who knew God personally, and as Christians today, we are given this awesome perspective to look at world events and people as seen through God's eyes. The Old Testament gave us the naked picture of God's justice, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. Every sin was paid for with a life, and every mistake was paid for with an offering. From that perspective, the message of the Gospel (the New Testament) makes us appreciate the real value of Christ's sacrifice.

By the same token, one may ask, "why do you read Christian authors like CS Lewis, or St Augustine, or Martin Luther?" For the same reason I read the Bible. Throughout history there have been people who have been given a special insight into the nature of God. I do not need to know about CS Lewis to be saved. I do not even need to know about the Apostle Paul to be saved. But as a Christian who wants to grow in knowledge about God, these people present valuable insights into the mind of God. Yes, there are lessons to be learned from all these sources. There are lessons to be learned from the Old Testamament as well. The trick is to know which lessons apply to us today, in the 21st Century. That's why many people dismiss Old Testament arguments when debating today's problems. We are not under the Law. We have Christ. The ceremonial Law has been abolished. The moral Law stands.

Debate and discussion are not about who shouts the loudest, or who makes the longest speeches, or writes the longest posts. In the end, it is all about the truth, and if the truth is not supported by reason, then all arguments fail. For example, a mokey, if given a typewriter, may hit keys at random and perhaps come up with a legible sentence. But that does not mean that the monkey can write. By the same token, some people may speak a truth by getting lucky, even with faulty reasoning. But because their reasoning is faulty, they do not know the truth. Today, some people apply the Old Testament and sometimes speak the truth, by sheer luck. But because their resoning is flawed, they assume that everything in the Old Testament applies as well. This is where the Holy Spirit, through the gifts of wisdom and knowledge, (1 Cor 12) will reveal the truth to those who seek it.

[index]

Knowing the Old Testament is not a requirement for salvation. Consequently, the Old Testament is irrelevant as pertaining to being saved. When one comes to Christ he is not told "... go forth and read the Old Testament and then you shall receive salvation..." As a matter of fact, one does not need know the New Testament either. Knowing how to read is not a requirement for salvation. To push the issue even further, reading the Bible is not a requirement for salvation either. The value of Christ's sacrifice stands on its own, without the Old or New Testaments. Since the beginning of Christianity, people have been saved upon hearing the Word (the Word as the absolute truth, and not the barely coherent ramblings that pass for sermons in our churches these days), and being saved upon believing it, through the work of the Holy Spirit.

Now someone like Moe may ask, "... why bother to read the Bible or the Old Testament...?" I read the Bible because I have not memorized it. I need to constantly read and reread those texts to learn and relearn the lessons contained therein. Think of the Old Testament as a history book. It describes the events that prepared humanity for the coming of the Mesiah. The maxim "history repeats itself" is as true today as it ever was. By reading the Old Testament we get a glimpse of history as seen through the eyes of people who knew God personally, and as Christians today, we are given this awesome perspective to look at world events and people as seen through God's eyes. The Old Testament gave us the naked picture of God's justice, an eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth. Every sin was paid for with a life, and every mistake was paid for with an offering. From that perspective, the message of the Gospel (the New Testament) makes us appreciate the real value of Christ's sacrifice.

By the same token, one may ask, "why do you read Christian authors like CS Lewis, or St Augustine, or Martin Luther?" For the same reason I read the Bible. Throughout history there have been people who have been given a special insight into the nature of God. I do not need to know about CS Lewis to be saved. I do not even need to know about the Apostle Paul to be saved. But as a Christian who wants to grow in knowledge about God, these people present valuable insights into the mind of God. Yes, there are lessons to be learned from all these sources. There are lessons to be learned from the Old Testamament as well. The trick is to know which lessons apply to us today, in the 21st Century. That's why many people dismiss Old Testament arguments when debating today's problems. We are not under the Law. We have Christ. The ceremonial Law has been abolished. The moral Law stands.

Debate and discussion are not about who shouts the loudest, or who makes the longest speeches, or writes the longest posts. In the end, it is all about the truth, and if the truth is not supported by reason, then all arguments fail. For example, a mokey, if given a typewriter, may hit keys at random and perhaps come up with a legible sentence. But that does not mean that the monkey can write. By the same token, some people may speak a truth by getting lucky, even with faulty reasoning. But because their reasoning is faulty, they do not know the truth. Today, some people apply the Old Testament and sometimes speak the truth, by sheer luck. But because their resoning is flawed, they assume that everything in the Old Testament applies as well. This is where the Holy Spirit, through the gifts of wisdom and knowledge, (1 Cor 12) will reveal the truth to those who seek it.

And what ever u just sayd is irelevant, due to the fact that u do not belive that the schriptures are the inspired word of God, and that u are questoning its sources.......

The trick is to know which lessons apply to us today, in the 21st Century. That's why many people dismiss Old Testament arguments when debating today's problems. We are not under the Law. We have Christ. The ceremonial Law has been abolished. The moral Law stands.
matew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

[pink_polkadot]

Hey Guyzzzzzzzzzzz!!!!!!!!!!!
che face

[yacko]

And what ever u just sayd is irelevant, due to the fact that u do not belive that the schriptures are the inspired word of God, and that u are questoning its sources.......


matew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I never thought it would come to this, but I am going to say this only once:

I am amused and saddened at the same time when a few people which shall remain nameless (crazycontra, mike gurau, index :innocent: ) resort to insults and false accusations every time they cannot debate an argument on its own merits. As you have noticed, I do not accuse people of being stupid and ignorant, even when they are. I would expect that as fellow Christians, you should extend the same courtesy to other fellow members on this site, and even out there in the real world. If you have arguments against any of my points, please present them in a well thought out, clear and logical manner, so that everyone can understand what you are saying. If you cannot do that, I urge you to pray for wisdom, so that you will have the ability to seek the truth.

As far as my beliefs are concerned, I feel no need to justify my theology to anyone, let alone to people who still have a lot to learn about love, mercy, forgiveness, and plain courtesy and good manners. The fact that I am using the Bible as a source for my arguments should suffice to infer that I am a Bible believer. That aside, I do not understand what you could one possibly gain by insulting and deriding people one does not know. I have a feeling that nothing I say will dissuade a fool to turn back from his evil desire, but I am making an attempt anyway. I think that Proverbs 14:6 is fitting here: "The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning." Also keep in mind that "... a man is praised according to his wisdom, but men with warped minds are despised."

[KrazyEuro]

I never thought it would come to this, but I am going to say this only once:

I am amused and saddened at the same time when a few people which shall remain nameless (crazycontra, mike gurau, index :innocent: ) resort to insults and false accusations every time they cannot debate an argument on its own merits. As you have noticed, I do not accuse people of being stupid and ignorant, even when they are. I would expect that as fellow Christians, you should extend the same courtesy to other fellow members on this site, and even out there in the real world. If you have arguments against any of my points, please present them in a well thought out, clear and logical manner, so that everyone can understand what you are saying. If you cannot do that, I urge you to pray for wisdom, so that you will have the ability to seek the truth.

As far as my beliefs are concerned, I feel no need to justify my theology to anyone, let alone to people who still have a lot to learn about love, mercy, forgiveness, and plain courtesy and good manners. The fact that I am using the Bible as a source for my arguments should suffice to infer that I am a Bible believer. That aside, I do not understand what you could one possibly gain by insulting and deriding people one does not know. I have a feeling that nothing I say will dissuade a fool to turn back from his evil desire, but I am making an attempt anyway. I think that Proverbs 14:6 is fitting here: "The mocker seeks wisdom and finds none, but knowledge comes easily to the discerning." Also keep in mind that "... a man is praised according to his wisdom, but men with warped minds are despised."


Truth Be Told! :amen:

[moe2006]

Yacko, I never said the Old Testament has anything to do with salvation, now did I?

The Old Testament is like the prologue into the new testament... unfortunately, we don't have an epilogue yet.... that'll come as soon as our dear savior comes.

[yacko]

Yacko, I never said the Old Testament has anything to do with salvation, now did I?

The Old Testament is like the prologue into the new testament... unfortunately, we don't have an epilogue yet.... that'll come as soon as our dear savior comes.

The Old Testament is culturally specific. Most of the rules and regulations prescribed therein do not apply to our condition. Yet, the God of the Old Testament is the same as the God of the New Testament. While it would be irresponsible to dismiss the writings of the OT as "garbage", it would be equally irresponsible to randomly take specific texts and try to apply them today. The lessons of the OT must be understood in the context to which they belong: a world governed by Law, not by Grace, where Love was but a thinly veiled fear of the Lord. Note that "love thy neighbor as thyself" is not part of the original Ten Commandments.

[Augustine]

If the Bible is just another human book that talks about God, as some argue, then how can we be sure about anything ?
Over 1500 times in the Bible the authors claim that this is God's word ... so either it is ... or we "respect" a book that has over 1500 lies in it ...

Remeber:
Gen. 3: 1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say... ?"

The same attack is on Christianity today as it was in the past.

No, the Bible is not the same as Augustine's writings or Luther's writings ... the Bible is both a human and divine book.

If God did not talk about Himself without error then we are still in darkness.

P.S. yacko don't take this message personally, at least you investigated what you believe and have an opinion ( even if it's wrong :) ) ... others just take stuff for granted ... and don't live consistent with the view that the Bible is God's word ... if they would they would take it seriously ( both OLD and NEW testament )

[KrazyEuro]

If the Bible is just another human book that talks about God, as some argue, then how can we be sure about anything ?
Over 1500 times in the Bible the authors claim that this is God's word ... so either it is ... or we "respect" a book that has over 1500 lies in it ...

Remeber:
Gen. 3: 1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say... ?"

The same attack is on Christianity today as it was in the past.

No, the Bible is not the same as Augustine's writings or Luther's writings ... the Bible is both a human and divine book.

If God did not talk about Himself without error then we are still in darkness.

P.S. yacko don't take this message personally, at least you investigated what you believe and have an opinion ( even if it's wrong :) ) ... others just take stuff for granted ... and don't live consistent with the view that the Bible is God's word ... if they would they would take it seriously ( both OLD and NEW testament )



:amen: :bfro:

[yacko]

Augustine,

God's Word or not, how do you discern whether a certain passage is from the OT (or even the NT) is still applicable today?

[Augustine]

It is all about hemeneutics.
If you have some time I would sugest people to read this article:
http://www.modernreformation.org/dac99tabula.htm

This is not applicable only to Old Testament, but New Testament too. How do we interpret what we read?
If Jesus said to be like Him did he meant that I have to walk on water? Die on the cross? not really...

Same problem with Old Testament, we have to read and interpret it right ... there is OLNY ONE OBJECTIVE AND ABSOLUTE MEANING ... Bible is not your post-modern book where the meaning has to do just with the reader's feelings and moods.

[Augustine]

P.S. yacko .... u're still my bro' :)

[KrazyEuro]

It is all about hemeneutics.
If you have some time I would sugest people to read this article:
http://www.modernreformation.org/dac99tabula.htm

This is not applicable only to Old Testament, but New Testament too. How do we interpret what we read?
If Jesus said to be like Him did he meant that I have to walk on water? Die on the cross? not really...

Same problem with Old Testament, we have to read and interpret it right ... there is OLNY ONE OBJECTIVE AND ABSOLUTE MEANING ... Bible is not your post-modern book where the meaning has to do just with the reader's feelings and moods.

ah augustine, their is a slight difference between interpreting scriptures to explain what it's saying, and interpreting scriptures to apply it today. I can read a passage in scriptures that talks about...

"stone a false prophet..."

and turn around and apply it today. Of course, my message wouldn't include stoning a false prophet, but the severity of distorting Gods truth. Life application can be done with old testament, but to interpret in the fashion it is written, cannot apply to us today. I'm not talking about ALL the old testament, just soem of the things. Like the stoning of false prophets. Same with the new testament, their are things in their that do not apply to us today, for example, "baptism for dead people" (1 Corinthians 15) or "head coverings" and so forth. We could apply them to today and say how it is relevant for us to submit to one another and so forth, but it does not mean that we must wear a scarf and so forth. Scriptures can be interpreted in 2 ways. 1. What it's really saying 2. life application.

[moe2006]

Augustine... I'm liking your posts man... finally we can agree :thfro:

[Augustine]

ah augustine, their is a slight difference between interpreting scriptures to explain what it's saying, and interpreting scriptures to apply it today. I can read a passage in scriptures that talks about...

"stone a false prophet..."

and turn around and apply it today. Of course, my message wouldn't include stoning a false prophet, but the severity of distorting Gods truth. Life application can be done with old testament, but to interpret in the fashion it is written, cannot apply to us today. I'm not talking about ALL the old testament, just soem of the things. Like the stoning of false prophets. Same with the new testament, their are things in their that do not apply to us today, for example, "baptism for dead people" (1 Corinthians 15) or "head coverings" and so forth. We could apply them to today and say how it is relevant for us to submit to one another and so forth, but it does not mean that we must wear a scarf and so forth. Scriptures can be interpreted in 2 ways. 1. What it's really saying 2. life application.

yes Shredder... I agree that applying the Bible is a different question than interpreting the Bible ... but they are really close connected ..

As D.A. Carson said: "Frankly admit that many interpretive decisions are nestled within a large theological system, which we must be willing to modify if the Bible is to have the final word."

when you ask both what does this text mean and how do I apply it today ... you have to take into account your theological system, your culture, and many more things.

If for example, I'm an adventist, I believe that I can't eat pork, but that's not because Bible ( as a whole ) restricts it, but rather my adventist doctrine with the law and grace mixed together requires it.

That being said, coming back to the original thread ... OLd Testament is no garbage ... Jesus when tempted answered the devil with quotes from Old Testament ... If Jesus recognize the Old Testament as God's word it's hard for anyone to claim that it isn't.

[EyeDoughnutNo]

moe, when the Gospel was presented to me on numerous occasions, nobody ever referred me back to the old testament. When i present the Gospel, i dont refer back to the Old testament. To some people, it just doesn't matter. The fact of the Old testament is the Laws in which man had to keep and we couldn't keep it. But even the world itself testifies that the 10 commandments exists. We had them in our court systems. The new testament explains the purpose of the Laws and how it's significant in the new testament. Yah, as christians, the old testament is amazing full of cross references of old testament prophecies and sacrifices and so forth. But when presented with teh Gospel, the old testament is not needed. All that is needed is that we're sinners, and through Christ we have salvation. So when discussing salvational issues, old testament is not necessarily needed. It's very plain in the NT.

In these days, when just about everyone is filled with "knowledge" from many different sources, explaining how the Old Testament applies to the New Testament is not only beneficial, but also necessary. For example, at my school there are people from different countries and a variety of religions that I never even heard of. Whenever I get a chance to talk to these people, I make sure to explain WHY what happened had to happen how it happened. Paul does exactly this in the book of Hebrews when speaking primarily to the Jews as an audience. The fulfillment of many of the Old Testament prophecies and customs can be one of the strongest messages to nonbelievers if it is applied to the message of salvation correctly. Since God is never-changing, by looking at the Old Testament and how He worked, we can see how God still works today. David was a prophet and a man after God's own heart. He understood what it meant to follow God's will and keep a pure heart. The messages of the Old Testament and their meanings still apply today. The main difference is now that salvation is that we now live by spiritual law rather than laws of the flesh.

[moe2006]

Amen to that Two-Door ;)


I've discussed this particular subject with American friends and the main reason they use the Bible is to get inspiration out of it. To feel comforted from it. They believe the Old Testament is valid these days as well as the New Testament.

Once, I played the devil's advocate and debated a girl on this subject. I acted like I thought the Bible was just some old book and doesn't apply to us today (of course she didn't know I was just messing around to see how she responds...).

She surprised me by quoting Biblical verses to prove my arguements wrong and when I stubbornly tried to end the discussion by "pshhh it's still an old book... and doesn't have anything to do with the new days..." she handed me her Bible and told me to find an expiration date on it. I was like :eek: (she got me good) and then I shared my true beliefs and told her I was just seeing if she's firm in her beliefs or if she has no clue.

I pass on what she told me to everyone who doesn't think the OT applies to us anymore. Show me an expiration date.

[popa]

OT ROCKS !!!!!!
1. shows us Gods Character ( HOLY GOD)
2. shows us man can never be that(works)
3. every single page points to one that can take that failure(me) and make it into the Holiness God wants....Jesus
4. What is tha last word in the OT....??????

hmmmm makes me think......
than I get the present of Jesus......YES YES YES YES YES !!!
ALL of Gods WORD is FULL, more than full....I have no words to explain how full of life every Word is.....because thats what God is.......


OT...NT.....its all about one thing......CHRIST JESUS....my Lord and my Savior......oh so sweet......
Love in Christ
C.A.

[moe2006]

Thank you Popa... that pretty much sums it up :p:

[adelinne]

moe, when the Gospel was presented to me on numerous occasions, nobody ever referred me back to the old testament. When i present the Gospel, i dont refer back to the Old testament. To some people, it just doesn't matter. The fact of the Old testament is the Laws in which man had to keep and we couldn't keep it. But even the world itself testifies that the 10 commandments exists. We had them in our court systems. The new testament explains the purpose of the Laws and how it's significant in the new testament. Yah, as christians, the old testament is amazing full of cross references of old testament prophecies and sacrifices and so forth. But when presented with teh Gospel, the old testament is not needed. All that is needed is that we're sinners, and through Christ we have salvation. So when discussing salvational issues, old testament is not necessarily needed. It's very plain in the NT.


I agree that u can present the Good News without the OT, but though u can not ignore it bcuz it has its purpose , just think at the prophecies from the OT referring to Jesus and to the end of the world ...
I find the OT very interresting and useful , God spoke to me many times through it

When u present the Gospel and Jesus to a non believer u dnt need to mention the OT, but as a christian , a child of God u need to study also the OT to go deeper in your knowledge about God :)

some verses about the OT

6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, “The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.”[a] 8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 11 Now all[b] these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


GBU