Sould women realy where a BATIC when they go to church??

[Moe]

I think and belive they sould, because in 1Corinthians Chapter
11 vers 5,6 it sais " and that is why a women who publicly
prays or prophesises withought a covering on here head dishonors
her husbund (for her covering is a sign of here subjection to him).
yes, if she refuses to wear a head covering,then she sould cut off
here hair. And if it is shamful for a women to have her head shaved,
then she sould wear a covering."
So that is what i think of that. If a women does not wear here BATIC
she would be like a shaved women.......
Thanks to the bishop for all his help.........
thank you for reading my post fell free to answer me with what ever you
have on your mind Thanks again......................
................................................
.................................................. .


GOD BLESS YOU ALL....
CHICAGO/////////////FREAK;)

[andipesel]

hey, i don't think that they have to wear, or do you think now that Darlene Zschech (if you know her) will go hell, well she is not romanian.

If she thinks that it's better for her relationship with God, then let's do her, if not, then why do you want to force her???


You wan't be judged for the thinks she has done in her life, she will be, so let her do the thinks, she thinks that it is good for her relationship with god.


peace from austria.

[yo]

If she thinks that it's better for her relationship with God how is it better, if it is against the bible?
then why do you want to force her??? nobody is forcing her, they just let her know the right way... its up to her if she accepts or not
she thinks that it is good for her relationship with god. yes she thinks, but it is good to know that there r ppl who dont agree with whatever shes doing.
My point about batic is:
it says woman should wear them, not girls or teenagers, so if u married and u do have a husband, u should do as the bible says so, other than that u r not required.
Pls dont come with statements like "that was the tradition back then" ... the bible aplies today as it aplied 2000 yers ago.

[deni]

just go back and see his thread people........we have like 4 threads on the same topic.....:twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak: :twak:

[cammie25]

uhmmmm....... i have nothing against women wearing "batic" at church. i agree in the bible it does say for a woman to wear a covering on her head, but the bible isnt specific on what the covering should be. the covering can be refered to as a "batic", hat, bandana, "bentita", or even a woman's natural hair. the bible says that its shameful for a woman not to have a head covering, well if u consider hair to be the head covering the bible could possibly be refering to, it would be shamefull for a woman to walk around bald. so the bible is really telling women not to shave their heads. lol. honestly though this is a double sided subject. its a very contraversal topic. this is just my opinion and if u disagree please do so. tanx for reading and God Bless Ya!

[maria]

First of all, I never get on royouth and now I realize why I don't! All of you think that you're such good christians but none of you have any sense at all. Each and every one of you have a translation to what the bible says, yet none of you have a clue on what you're saying. I don't even know how you have the nerve to get on here and question wearing a batic. If you were at all raised in a Romanian family, you wouldn't question it. Not wearing one is disrespecting God and yourself. If I only counted all the times that I've heard people say that they used to wear one in Romania but they stopped once they got to America. Why is that??? Has America totally changed the way you were raised? Everyone acts like they were brainwashed into believing something that wasn't true. Trust me, I think you were all raised into believing that you should wear a batic, are you too Americanized now? If that is the case.. I pity all of you!

[Iacob]

With the example of darlene, you've got to remember to stay alert in these times! Remember that Satan has his workers too and just because they aren't satanic clans doesn't mean that they're ok to listen too. Satan is tricky .... if you like praise and worship and rely too much on it then satan can use a singer to just slightly skew off somethings and totally throw you off HIS path. Don't believe if they play/sing christian music they are Holy and you should fall on every word they say!

I know a happening of a very renowned pastor that hundreds of people turned to God from his teachings but they found out that while he was in foreign countries he slept with a lot of other women from those countries. So .... i really can't stress enough .... cercetati tot ce auzit sa fie dupa voia D-lui!

--Emy

[Iacob]

DONT SAY ALL UNLESS YOU REALLY MEAN IT!

Originally posted by maria
First of all, I never get on royouth and now I realize why I don't! All of you think that you're such good christians but none of you have any sense at all. Each and every one of you have a translation to what the bible says, yet none of you have a clue on what you're saying. I don't even know how you have the nerve to get on here and question wearing a batic. If you were at all raised in a Romanian family, you wouldn't question it. Not wearing one is disrespecting God and yourself. If I only counted all the times that I've heard people say that they used to wear one in Romania but they stopped once they got to America. Why is that??? Has America totally changed the way you were raised? Everyone acts like they were brainwashed into believing something that wasn't true. Trust me, I think you were all raised into believing that you should wear a batic, are you too Americanized now? If that is the case.. I pity all of you!

[maria]

I do mean it all. Emi, you should know exactly what I mean as you went to Chopin exactly like the rest of us a few years back.

[Iacob]

if it has to be said then ok we'll bring it out in the open .....

Yes, a lot of people are ignorant about somethings in the bible. And its the truth ... there are no arguments.

--Emy

Maria -- how do you know me from Chopin? I was a little pustoa back then!! Whats your last name?

[thebishop]

So Iacob, how do you know about that pastor? Have you been with him? Or this just Atlanta gossipping?
And I know you guys!!!!

[maria]

CHRISTISTHELORD, what I'm saying is that you were raised knowing the difference between right and wrong. Why change it now? All of you try to justify yourselves by saying that American women don't wear it, so why should you? Well you were raised knowing that you should wear it. Have you so little respect that you can't? I'm sorry, does it hurt to raise your hand to tie your batic? All of a sudden, it's ok to wear all kinds of jewelry to church and for girls to wear pants. From what I've seen posted on here, all of you are beginning to lose all respect for the Romanian Christian church. One person even said that they don't even know how to use a batic, thats the dumbest thing I've ever heard anyone say and I would be embarrassed to say that. Everyone is slowly trying to give this all up and before you know it, they won't even let you speak in tongues in church so that you don't offend someone else. With everything going on in this world, you would think that the christian youth would get stronger in God and draw strength from each other, but instead you're all bringing yourselves down along with everyone else.

[whoRu]

Actually, the dumbest thing I've heard anyone say is that "you were raised knowing the difference between right and wrong. Why change it now?" Actually you were raised THINKING you knew the difference between right and wrong.. You think not wearing a batic is wrong... It's not an american issue, eastern european issue or any other cultural issue.... The fact of the matter is this.... If you say a prayer, God will not disallow that prayer simply because you're not wearing a batic... I already made an argument that if you're stuck in an elevator and you're not wearing a batic... and that elevator falls down 10 stories and you decide to say one more prayer before you land into eternity; do you think, Maria, that God will not hear that prayer simply because you're not wearing a batic? God is concerned with the inner self.. and you don't get that teaching from the "AMERICAN'S"... People like you are always blaming the americans for changing the minds of others... Well, have you considered that maybe reading the word has changed people's mind? We shouldn't be ignorant and believe something to be right just becuase that's the way it was done in a foreign land decades ago... Instead we should read the bible... And the bible is clear that when you worship God, you offer your body as a living sacrifice. Whether you do that with a batic or not is entirely up to you... But never say it's wrong to not wear it.. It's simply not biblical

[hotazgrl17]

im with josh... i dont think that god wont listen to ur prayers if ur not wearing a batic.. i really dont think it matters what ur wearing.. but i mean, everyone has their own opinions to everything. so i dunno.

[Nygel]

Do you think that's how it works JoshCosa...it doesn't matter what you do but as long as before you die you say a little prayer...?

[whoRu]

uhm obviously you took a little portion from what I said and blew it up.. typical.. this is the way it works.. Romans12:1.. be a living sacrifice... Die to your sinful nature and worship God in the spirit

[Iacob]

the bishop --

dude you've got it totally wrong! This was an american pastor who served in hispanic countries in south america!!

--Emy

[ChRiSpYpInEaPPLe]

I cannot believe how Romanians choose to focus on the unimportant issues such as wearing a "batic." Those of you quoting 1 Corinthians 11 are taking the passage out of context. Context is crucial in the Word was it is written two thousand years ago. Paul wasn't referring to everyone but that church in particular and it's sad how many think it's important whether women wear a batic or not. Why is that so important, if think about what God did for us, sending Jesus, who was God, to take our sins upon a cross, sacrificing Himself so we might have a relationship with Him. God looks at the heart of the worshipper and that is clearly written in the Word of God. Many of you who hold on to your traditions and rituals miss out on the great experience of living for God and doing his will here on Earth instead of making sure your wearing a stylish batic to church, since that's what everybody tells you. Christians should be forcusing on growing in their faith, Colossians 1:9 tells us how to pray and grow in our understanding of the Lord. God listens to you when you pray to Him, he takes you very seriously because you are very important to Him, there's no need for petty articles of clothing on top of your head...how does that even help you with anything? It's not practical or useful. God, the eternal, infinite being, outside of all time, the creator of the universe and of ourselves has no such requirements. His only requirements are that we are sincere and repentful when we choose to follow Him. I hope I got my point across. I'm open for any comments or additional questions. Thank You and God Bless You All

[Nygel]

Originally posted by JoshCosa
uhm obviously you took a little portion from what I said and blew it up.. typical.. this is the way it works.. Romans12:1.. be a living sacrifice... Die to your sinful nature and worship God in the spirit

JOSH how many errors does an argument need for it to be false? I'll tell you...one little one that's all it takes. With one false premise in an argument you can prove anything.

[Nygel]

Originally posted by ChRiSpYpInEaPPLe
I cannot believe how Romanians choose to focus on the unimportant issues such as wearing a "batic." Those of you quoting 1 Corinthians 11 are taking the passage out of context. Context is crucial in the Word was it is written two thousand years ago. Paul wasn't referring to everyone but that church in particular and it's sad how many think it's important whether women wear a batic or not. Why is that so important

I can't believe that God threw Adam and Eve out of the garden of Eden for eating an "apple"... what's the big deal? Can you answer that [B]Chrispy?

[PrayerISpower]

Christisthelord....what are you talking about??? In fact Novellation GAVE A VERY GOOD EXAMPLE. Adam and Eve only ate an oridnary apple...but yet they were kicked out of the Garden of Eden. WHY??? BECUASE THEY DIDN'T OBEY THE WORD OF THE LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! God told them not to eat the fruit...yet they did. And the bible IS the word of God...i dont care if Paul wrote that book to the Corinthians becuase of their "old" ways and unorderly conduct. If it's in the bible...we all must listen to it. 2 timothy3:16 "Toata Scriptura este INSUFLATA de Dumnezeu si de folos ca sa invete...."

[thebishop]

"Toata Scriptura este INSUFLATA de Dumnezeu si de folos ca sa invete...."AND TO BE MISINTERPRETED BY LEGALIST AND LIBERAL CHRISTIANS?

[PrayerISpower]

FRATE theBishop....What you said could be very misinterpreted, and people could take that as offending. Also...who are you refering to by your comment???? And then to my next point.... When you interpret the bible....what are you then???? What if you misinterpret the bible...are you then a legalist?? Ever think about that?? Or if you tell some American "christians" its wrong to do this or that, they are going to regard you as a CHRISTIAN LIBERAL.

[MaRK!]

:confused:

[whoRu]

Novellation
for someone who has 1 Peter 3:15 underneath their username you sure do like misinterpreting everything

[Nygel]

Originally posted by thebishop
"Toata Scriptura este INSUFLATA de Dumnezeu si de folos ca sa invete...."AND TO BE MISINTERPRETED BY LEGALIST AND LIBERAL CHRISTIANS?

where are you coming from? Check the definition of the word "liberal" and you might be surprised.... try http://dictionary.reference.com/

[Nygel]

Originally posted by christisthelord
novelation -
chill bro. your taking it out of context. he wanted to show that God doesn not only listen to you when you have a batic on..

I am not taking it out of context...How can you say that? Do you not understand the point I am trying to get across? It all comes down to obediance...IF God says to do something (wear a head covering) and we don't it's called disobedience. I'm not saying whether we have to or not...I'm just saying that it's an important issue.

[Nygel]

Originally posted by JoshCosa
Novellation
for someone who has 1 Peter 3:15 underneath their username you sure do like misinterpreting everything

I try to use logic. But I'm not sure if what you say is based on fact. First of all it couldn't possibly be "everything" and second I do not see myself as misinterpreting anything I say it how I see it. If I have misinterpreted something please clarify it. Even better look at my arguments and write a counterargument disproving me. :alig:

[Nygel]

Originally posted by christisthelord
ok there is no pointin debating this.

Prayerispower: why don't you look under the other baticul threads that have over 100 replies in them and study people's responses before you respond.

i am reminded of the scripture that says "some were given more and some were given less." some were given more understanding of the scriptures and some were given less.

I am not going to say whether wearing a batic is right or wrong (as I have said before and provided Biblical EVIDENCE) but I'm going to ask PrayerisPOWER the same question I asked Maria. (who by the way still didn't answer it)

Do you realize that there is other people besides Romanians or Russians that will be saved?! do you honestly believe all American Women who don't wear a batic to church will go to hell? or that their prayers aren't answered because they don't wear a batic?

I know a lot of Romanians to typically take one verse and create a doctrine or master's thesis on it. (remember that there is MANY verses that Romanians just consider it like any other verse in the Bible. FOr example, I don't have a Bible with me but it says something along the lines of "bate din palme si bucurate" (not exact). How come we don't clap and jump up in church? Something to think about...

But this ends this discussion for me..

Well you can use the same argument for a lot of things. Look at how many Catholics there are and there view of Mary. And many many other instances in which your argument can be applied...it doesn't prove anything

[ChRiSpYpInEaPPLe]

wow..christisthelord, you really know your stuff..do you go to Bible college or anything?
well..mr Novellation, I don't know what you are trying to say but uhm...when Adam and Eve disobeyed..they sinned..they brought sin into the world, so NOW everyone who is born is born under sin, and God HATEs sin. Romans 5:12 When Adam sinned, sin entered the entire human race. Adam's sin brouth death, so death spread to everyone, for everyone sinned. God allowed free will so that we can choose, Adam chose the apple because Eve was deceived..well I'm guessing you know the story but do you know the basic foundation by which Christianity stands on? All you do is try to be politically correct, trying to be "logical" well we have to look at the Bible, not at our own logic, because we are flawed, and God is perfect. So tell me why God would be concerned with what's on top of our heads? Like christisthelord said you take one verse out and make a doctrine up...it's pretty ridiculous. Let's try and focus on some real issues like why so many of the youth that come to this web site are depressed and feel that they can't go to church because the Romanians talk about them and so and and so forth. Or do you think it's okay as long as they go to church, are relatively good people and the girls wear batics? And don't go around trying to argue against an example, such as given by JoshCosa. 1 Peter 3:15, if you keep reading, talking about telling others about Christ and the monumental event which took place outside of Jerusalem some 2,000 years ago. like you said, it All COmes Down to Jesus, accepting his gift, defeating sin, and having the life-giving Spirit inside of you to guide you and free you from bondage. Yeah, you DO take things out of context because you cut my last sentence out...THINK Before You Act man...food for thought. They Bible also has hundreds of laws written in the Old Testament, such as...never boil goat's milk on a monday before sunrise (or something like that), can you tell me why we don't obey these laws? hint hint read Romans.
PS Prayerispower- so why don't we follow all of God's law? yea you kinda don't made sense in your later post, what in the world are you trying to say? Keep it simple, man. Wow, by the way, if your are a Christian against a lot of things you are considered CONSERVATIVE, wow did you even go to school..or what's going on?? What's up with putting an American Christian in quotes? Are Americans not part of God's plan of salvation, DID I MISS SomTHInG HeRe..cuz i thought it was for everyone, geez guys get your facts straight. pEaCE

[Nygel]

Originally posted by christisthelord
Lord have MERCY! Wow Novellation. I would expect more from you....

haha funy though. Neither you or Marie answered the question.....hey man it was cool debating but it wasn't productive so lets end it here.

have mercy indeed. :bfro:...it's an interesting debate:fro:

[Nygel]

Chrispy I was trying to point out that the issue of whether women need to wear a head covering or not is not unimportant.

[cammie25]

maria, from what u said earlier, are you trying to say that for a girl to wear pants is wrong? a sin?

[sweetncharming]

Oh boy. I just can’t believe it you guys and gals are having a heated discussion over something little. First thing firs what do you guys and gals mean by wearing BATIC, for example at church or every day.

Compare to what I read from the post you guys are discussing it in general such as an every day thing. Well I am a girl and I don’t wear a BATIC every day. I came to that conclusion from JoschCosa’s example. On the other hand if you guys are talking about wearing a BATIC in church that’s a totally different subject. From the example that JoshcoaI mean I haven’t seen a church service in an elevator. (LOL)

I personally haven’t seen anywhere in the bible where it says that you should wear your BATIC at all times. I’ve seen and read in the bible for married ladies when they go to church it is nice for them to have there head covered. As for my personal opinion I think in order to give respect to god the ladies should cover there head, but if they don’t want to its not our place to judge. The only person who can judge us is GOD.

So in my opinion you guys should stop discussing the subject with BATIC because everyone has there own opinion and beliefs.

[ChRiSpYpInEaPPLe]

Nov- it IS unimportant and you didn't even answer my questions. We need to let go of all these little rules and regulations. Stop trying to put God in a box!! How can you live with yourself thinking that there's anything you can do to earn God's love or attention?

I don't think Maria is coming back, she was really strange in her traditional beliefs. Wearing pants, for a girl...hOW is that wrong? Come on ppl, let's try and change from within, not from the outside. Change needs to start on the inside then go out, not the other way around. If you say that everyone should be left alone with their own opinion I think that's just wrong, how can you just let someone live their life in vain, thinking they can go to church every sunday and wear a batic in order to get to heaven?

Sorry if my posts are kind of long, but it's important for me to let people know the truth.

[Silvi]

i know that this is very late in the discussion and it really does not have anything to do with it, but novellation wrote that Adam and Eve got kicked out of Eden because they ate an apple.


i just want to clarify that the BIble only says that Adam and Eve ate a FRUIT, it never says what fruit they ate.

sorry that it's so off topic. GBU

[ChRiSpYpInEaPPLe]

YeS..indeed, it wasn't an apple but a type of fruit, which nobody knows what which type. i recongized that afterwards.
I wonder what ever happened to Novellation. i think he likes to argue just for the sake of arguing, well God be with him.

[Nygel]

Silvi I know that it is not neccessarily an apple I did put it in quotation marks in my posts but maybe not all of them. Thanks for trying to correct a percieved error. :thfro:

ChRiSpYpInEaPPLe You are correct in your assumption that for the most part I'm only argueing to try to prove others wrong. And thank you...may God be with you also. :thfro:

[draguta]

about the batic, if it says in the bible to COVER your head, then that means your head, not to tie your hair, or to cover the top of your head, or to hide it somewhere in your hair, but to cover your head, as a sign of respect. if Jesus died for you, i mean DIED, the most a person could do, he did it for us all, even for you, now if he died for you, why can't you just wear something to cover your head. really its not that hard, its just like wearing an outfit that you were told to wear by the bible, Jesus, and your God. really

[popa]

there is no one to pity here. And no one knows where Darlene zchech is going. So lets all just relax. i think that we fail to read verse 15 in the passage from Corinthians ch. 12. It clearly states hear that a womans hair is given to her for a covering. And if she wants to be shaved ,than she wont' have her head covered and it will be a shame for her. I'm still looking, but i cant find the word sin here. There is a big difference between sin and shame. I mean, its a shame that some of the romanian church buildings are so run down, but is it a sin,,? of course not. The text also says that the woman disgraces herself, NOT God. I know that dee emotions are tied to learned traditions, but we should be watchful not to create a religion out of a piece of garment. If you want to wear it, feel free, if you don't, your still free, married or not. If wearing a "batic" was one of Gods mandates for a woman to be able to pray, or be saved, than it wouldnt be fair. Whjy should a woman have to take extra steps in a relationship with God more than a man,,? is this a salvation by works or faith ?because haveing to dress a certain way to reach God sure sounds like some religion of works. God bless you all. In the thing we agree, lets grow. in the things we dont, lets search, and in the things that dont matter, lets drop'em. and i think this one can be dropped. :).
Love in Christ,
Claudiu...

[sherry]

i totally agree with claudiu. christisthelord, don't try to intimidate people cuz it's not working. i noticed that your main focus was to get maria to answer your question--TOTALLY POINTLESS, DUDE! i like what it says in Galateni 1:10, which states: "Caut eu oare, in clipa aceasta, sa capat bunavointa oamenilor, sau bunavointa lui Dumnezeu? Sau caut sa plac oamenilor? Daca as mai cauta sa plac oamenilor, n-as fi robul lui Hristos." so for all those girls who are afraid of messing up their hair with a batik, correct your thinking. but to those who think women who don't wear one are going to hell, think again. we should strive to be people after God's own heart.

[*Supergirl*]

Even though this whole convo is over...i just wanted to say that why are people so concentrated on this little issue. If it was a big deal, Jesus would have talked about it, but he didn't so leave it alone. The whole BATIC thing is tradition and overrated. People just like to argue..let's voice our opinions over something worth all this attention..And one more thing....there can't just be people's opinions about right and wrong because then there is no absolute right and wrong...The fact of God's Word is that it is right..and we don't have our opinions, we just listen to wut we're told cuz He knows best. God bless.

[philjoel]

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1: :clap1: supergirl:clap1: :clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[casper]

I know this is off-topic but, we really need a spell checker. Look at some of these posts.. :P

[whoRu]

Popa Claudiu.. U rock dude! lol

[popa]

I beliueve its totally at the discretion of the woman. THe issue discussed in Cornithians has NOTHING to do with sin. Read it carefully. It talks about shame, and that the womans HAIR is given to her as a covering.We tend to omit verses in the Bible that give a certain beliefe system an upper hand. Lets be fair here as God would be. DOes a woman have to do something more special to accept favor in Gods eyes..? CLearly NO.
SO wahts the big idea that Gods not going to listen to her prayers..?
I know a pastor that was addidcted to all kinds of drugs before he bacame saved. He is AMERICAN (VAI VAI VAI) and his mom prayed for him for almost 15 years for God to save him, and HE did. Don't tell me God took so long cause he was looking for her "batic".
Lets read the Bible trying to learn what God wants to tell us, not to justify a countries traditions or a denominations legalistic bondages.
I say this, the lady or woman that does NOT wear one should not make fun of the on that DOES (calling them old fashion or what have you) BUT...... neither should the lady, or woman that DOES wear one tell the one that DOESN"T that Gods not listening. Plain and simple, both attitudes are not Biblical.
With Love in Christ,
Claudiu Apahidean

[yo]

for those that get pissed off when someone posts their opinion about the topic, why not asking a mod to lock the topic, since u said it has been discussed, ok?
Don't tell me God took so long cause he was looking for her "batic".
popa, maybe it was written 15 years in GOD's plan, what do u know?
i just wanna clearify one thing" this is not doctrina " like many say it comes from Romania or whatever, ... look at your grandparents and their parents etc they all wear their batic, the "new christians" from our days say u don't have to.
So this is not a tradition , it is an issue that ppl see it different from the bible.

[cosmin]

i've just read this past page worth of posts because this topic seems to be a hot one that deserves a new thread everytime it comes to a 'tie' and the thread fades of the first page of the forum its in ...

:lol2:

seriously though. this is an issue that i have my opinion and everyone has their own opinion. Some base it on scripture, others on personal beliefs. Lets try to debate the ones that are based on beliefs that are from scripture ! I know with an open heart and mind on both sides, God's word will draw a final conclusion.:sly:

[dpeaches84]

Well consider this, last summer i went to Greece and all the old ppl were wearing batics. Were all of them christians?...of course not! I feel that Batics in the Romanian church stem from a cultural practice found throughout easter europe...it is merely a socially inspired act not a christian one. Anyway, ICorinthians 11:15 says "For long hair is given to her as a covering." Hey, if u feel that u should wear a batic, go ahead, just don't place judement on others for doing otherwise...
P.S.-totally agree w/ "Chrispy-Pineapple"!!-:clap1:

[marius26NC]

Yeah but its also on your point of view some say that the hair is their head covering if their hear is long but yes its better to look at the bible and take it from there.....

[Cliewdea]

this subject to us is as touchy as abortion is to pro-rights people.
if you ask me, the guy who started this finished it when he quoted the bible.

A woman who prays without a head covering dishonors her husband.

If you don't have a husband, you have nothing to discuss. if your married you can argue about whether or not you should wear a batic. And i believe its dishonoring to your husband be cause the husband is suppose to be the head of the family.

so i don't even understand why you guys are aruging about whether or not its american or romanian or european or whatever issue someone called it, we don't americanize anything, whats in the bible is da si amin. end of story.

[dianaaz]

i soo agree with you cliewdea..thats what ive been trying to tell everyone!! that the bible says after your married...meaning when u become a woman thats when u should wear a batic! but i dont know about dishonoring your husband its more like dishonoring god...to the person your praying to!!

[CineOareCine]

It's my first post in this thread.... so i don't really know what everyone said. I only read the first, third, and last pages of this post. (sorry Christisthelord) ;)

I know that the people who believe women should wear baticuri want to talk about it, and i know that the people who don't believe in NEEDING to wear a batic want to defend their position, BUT ...

Why can't we all just live peacefully with everyone. If you know that there is going to be an arguement about this then why start. Like cosmin said, too many threads about this that ended up in a "tie." "If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men." Romans 12:18 And please don't say that it's not possible, cause "I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me." Philippians 4:13
Also.... if someone isn't wearing a batic, don't look at that and say "Christ isn't in them." We need to be looking at the good things in people, we can't just go tell them and make their oppinion change in a snap. If we can, then do it through our actions. Come on, no one is going to listen to someone who is mean to them. :screwy: It's just not the human thing to do.
"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." Philippians 4:8. I know this is talking about Christ, but if we were to think of doing it unto other people too, wouldn't more people have open ears to what we want to say?

GB. :bsmile:

[yacko]

I think that this thread is going nowhere. However, I will pose the following question for anyone who can answer it:

What is the practical /logical reason for women to wear a head covering?

Now, these are the type of answers I am willing to consider:

One needs to wear oven mits when handling hot food, because one will get burned otherwise.

One needs to wear a uniform when going to school because the charter of the school requires it. (where applicable)

One needs to wear sterile clothing when working in a operating room because... etc

Anyone who submits an answer should be prepared to defend it LOGICALLY.

Do not say "... because the bible says so...", because I can come up with a miriad of recommended/required bible traditions that we do not follow.

If one is willing to say "... because God requires it and it is a requirement for salvation...", the same person has to prove that anyone not following this practice is going straight to hell.

I would also be interested to know WHY do you think God would have such a requirement. What purpose would it serve? Again, I am looking for a logical answer that even I could understand.

Biblical passeages are nice. However, even I can (mis)interpret a passage in the bible to push my own agenda. That's why I am looking for a practical answer that I can actually explain to a non believer.

[CineOareCine]

Originally posted by yacko
I would also be interested to know WHY do you think God would have such a requirement. What purpose would it serve? Again, I am looking for a logical answer that even I could understand.


We don't need to ask God why... he has His reasons. You know... but still... i agree... this won't get us anywhere. You either wear it and believe or you don't wear it and believe. No one, but GOd can change your oppinion.

Gb:bsmile:

[yacko]

cineoare,

I trust God 100% with things that I am not capable of understanding. However, he endowed every one of us with a relatively proficient brain that we are suppoed to use from time to time. If we are not willing to put in the effort and understand an issue as mundane as this one either due to laziness or just plain apathy, then what business do we have even trying to discuss more serious issues that pertain to our salvation????????

This attitude that everything pertaining to Christian life is mystical and therefore beyond our understanding is plain dangerous. It not only reinforces the stereotype that we are basically a bunch of sheep unwilling to think for ourselves, but also promotes the idea that some Christians, particularly Romanian Pentecostals are just a bunch of kooks.

If the answer to every controversial question is "... God has his reasons, and therefore we need not bother with it ...", then Christianity is nothing more than a brainwashing operation where in order for one to be accepted, one has to prove that he/she is either incapable of critical thinking, or just willing to play along and plead stupidity.

[CineOareCine]

Originally posted by yacko
what business do we have even trying to discuss more serious issues that pertain to our salvation????????


I agree... yup, i do.

Originally posted by yacko
also promotes the idea that some Christians, particularly Romanian Pentecostals are just a bunch of kooks.


:scratch: i don't think that we should be calling people names...:(

Originally posted by yacko

If the answer to every controversial question is "... God has his reasons, and therefore we need not bother with it ...", then Christianity is nothing more than a brainwashing operation where in order for one to be accepted, one has to prove that he/she is either incapable of critical thinking, or just willing to play along and plead stupidity.

No... we are soposed to be willing to accept what the bible gives us and what the Lord allows us to understand from it. "Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?" 1 Corinthians 11:13...
So... i'm not saying that whoever doesnt wear a covering will go to hell, i'm saying that if a woman feels that she is doing something wrong when not covered while praying, then she is.
I also agree that this is a convo. that should be left up to the woman concerned and her mother, pastor, or God. no one else... they can't have any say in it, it's all up to the woman.

GB.:bsmile:

[Dorin Bogdan]

I have teo verse for you and I will let you guys to interped :

1COR 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
1COR 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering

This is the word of God from my Biblie as same as yours....
Now you are grow up tounderstand such simple verses without looking to the tradition from old times or something else....
I mean what could be so hard tounderstand this verses....

[Dorin Bogdan]

I have teo verse for you and I will let you guys to interped :

1COR 11:13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
1COR 11:15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering

This is the word of God from my Biblie as same as yours....
Now you are grow up tounderstand such simple verses without looking to the tradition from old times or something else....
I mean what could be so hard to understand this verses....
I hope i played in a way or other..... God Bless

[CineOareCine]

Dorin...

Who decides how long hair has to be to be considered long??? :confused: :tom: wow... if you understand that sentance... :thfro: :lol2:

GB.:bsmile:

[vikimo]

why don't men have to cover their heads?

[CineOareCine]

Vikimo...
Because it says that if a man prays with his head covered, he disohonors his head and his head is Christ... so he would be dishonoring Christ.

GB.:bsmile:

[vikimo]

what i don't understand is that why are women always picked on?

GB:)...hey I don't want to argue with anyone I just want to understand why and what peoples opinions are...

[HISGRL:)]

I think that we should obey the Word that was given to us from God in which it clearly specifies that ladies should have their head covered. Covering your head is a sign of respect, obedience and humbleness towards God. May God help us all to be more pleasing to Him.. :)

[CineOareCine]

Originally posted by vikimo
what i don't understand is that why are women always picked on?

Good point! :D Yeah GUYS , why are women always picked on by YOU???:p :D

Hisgrl.... AMEN!

GB.:bsmile:

[Dorin Bogdan]

Hei CineOareCine well that depends on you what means long and what means short..... I'm not a woman to say that...
But one thing I want to keep in mind those womans from Corint were bold when Paul was written to them.... Why? Because they just converted to christianity from a temple of I don't know what kind of other god.... I have to remember o ya Astartees or something like this.....
And about the lenght, that's your opinion dear for some what's long is short and vice versa.....so that depends
GB

[app_03]

Originally posted by thebishop
"Toata Scriptura este INSUFLATA de Dumnezeu si de folos ca sa invete...."AND TO BE MISINTERPRETED BY LEGALIST AND LIBERAL CHRISTIANS? would u be willing to sacrifice eternal life for not wearing a "batic"?:confused:

[Andy]

women should really draw near to God and then they'll know.

[yacko]

Ok, I am going to give it another try. I was really looking for a practical/logical reason why women sould be wearing a head covering. The only person who came even close to any kind of answer was hisgirl. She asserted that women should cover their heads as "... a sign of respect, obedience, and humbleness towards God." In other words, God requires some kind of physical token as proof of faith.

If we follow the argument, this physical requirement sounds very much like the Old Testamental circumcision than men had to undergo, in order to be accepted as God's servants. Now the question becomes the following:

Does God require women to display some kind physical token (ie, a head covering) in order to be accepted as belivers? What is the equivalent requirement for men? Or is there such a requirement for men? What do you think?

PS:
Really, the arguments about short/long hair, to cover or not to cover become irrelevant if we do not try to understand the cause behind it. I wish not to become entangled in the literal biblical debate because it would serve no useful purpose. I would urge the readers to avoid this trap also, and try to look at the bigger picture for a change. Also, I reject the idea of learning Biblical principles by osmosis (ie mysticism). I totally reject Andy's idea that if somehow, women (or men) were closer to God, then they would just automatically know the answers to life's questions.

[Andy]

I do not sit here intending to judge anyone's spiritual level, but anyone that places their relationship and intimacy with God as their greatest priority in life (and as a result, an intimate relationship is achieved) will not be burdened by this question. knowing and being close to God includes knowing and being close to His Word (in this case manifested through the Bible)

I agree with you on...

women (or men) were closer to God, then they would just automatically know the answers to life's questions.

...I guess the problem lies in what we consider to be "life's questions".

this is my opinion which I attained from the very little I know. you may disagree, and may very well be right, but I still believe what I believe.

[elvinesoon]

Originally posted by vikimo
why don't men have to cover their heads?

Sometimes I have my head covered when I’m praying…well when I’m just in my room or somewhere and if I just wanna have a one-on-one with God I might be wearing a baseball cap or something.

well anyway i am growing out my hair so i have long hair soooooo that counts...lol :thfro:

[yacko]

Andy,

We actually disagree on the idea that if we are closer to God, then we automatically know the answers to life questions. Please read the previous post again. I also do not think that one's desire for knowledge has anything to do with one's spiritual maturity.

When I was in school, my professors used to say that there is no such thing as a stupid quesion (as long as it was related to the subject matter). I am going to go a step further and say that when it comes to our Chritian beliefs, there is no such thing as an "unspiritual question". People who are too "spiritual" to stoop to such a lowly topic need not reply to this thread.

I feel a bit intrigued by the fact that many people think that because one is Christian, all the important answers will magically pop into someone's head. Somehow, if the answer is not clear, the automatic insinuation is that there is something wrong with that particular person.

[Andy]

yacko,

I do not believe that if we are close to God, life's tough answers will suddenly pop into our head. I also do not believe there are "unspiritual questions"...but I do think that if you call yourself a child of God you automatically assume the responsibility of gradually, slowly etc. delving into the "good book".

I have no problem with answers not popping into someone's head, and then asking, after they willingly tried to find the answer themselves.

I do NOT consider myself too high to "stoop down" to this thread, because too high is something I'm not. I actually put in my 2 cents and suggested that women (and all for that matter) should draw nearer to God in hopes of having their needs met on a personal level.

[Cliewdea]

amen to that, but why can't you guys just look at what your saying, you guys are answering your own question. its this simple you guys said it, and the bible says it, the answer is right in front of you, this is what my bible says:

1 Corinthinans 11:5
A woman dishonors her husband if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head.

SO.. if a woman prays with her head uncovered, she is dishonoring her husband, so if she isn't married, she has no problem, if she is married, thats different, because by dishonoring her husband, she is dishonoring christ. because her husband is responsible to christ and christ to god. so you don't wanna do that, but if your not married, quit stressing.

[Dorin Bogdan]

Hei one question if God wants all womans to wear batic or cover there had.... Why He didn't ask Eve the first woman on earth to cover her head.... maybe she wasn't bold as thosefrom Corint...?
GB

[app_03]

Originally posted by Cliewdea
amen to that, but why can't you guys just look at what your saying, you guys are answering your own question. its this simple you guys said it, and the bible says it, the answer is right in front of you, this is what my bible says:

1 Corinthinans 11:5
A woman dishonors her husband if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head.

SO.. if a woman prays with her head uncovered, she is dishonoring her husband, so if she isn't married, she has no problem, if she is married, thats different, because by dishonoring her husband, she is dishonoring christ. because her husband is responsible to christ and christ to god. so you don't wanna do that, but if your not married, quit stressing.

OK but,in Christ no women is w/out husband because we are Christs' bride.

[Cliewdea]

so cover your head then! its simple, whatever you believe is what you should do, you shouldn't change your mind because someone like insignificant me or the next person said so, you should do what you believe is right and if you believe that you should cover your head DO IT!! i never said you shouldn't

[Cliewdea]

you should change what you believe just because other people argue about it. you should stand stongly by what you believe and if you believe that you should wear a batic, then a thread like this shouldn't change your opinion. you do what you feel is right in god's eyes. if you don't think it's right, then maybe you shouldn't be doing it. this of this W.W.J.D??

[CineOareCine]

Maybe we should leave it at what Cliewdea said. If you don't believe it's right, don't wear it. If you believe it's right, do it! Simple simple... and guys.... get out of this post... it's a girl thing you know;) :D

GB.:bsmile:

[DamarisB07]

Hey any other info u guys wanna add to the Bible ? which is the truth?...yes of course u can have Christ in ur heart and still get ur prayers answered...because God answers prayers to even those that dont have Christ as their Lord and Saviour...b/c he is a giving and loving God...so y dont u give Him all the respect He needs? If u really love Him...then u wouldnt care about how u looked...b/c i think that is the reason alot of u dont agree on wearing a batic...looks...otherwise i mean if u arent lazy u would be able to at least place a batic on ur head buy foloowing the WORD b/c u wanna please God.
~Damaris~

[Dorin Bogdan]

Wrote by Amalia2003
OK but,in Christ no women is w/out husband because we are Christs' bride.

I don't think that you can put this sentence with the one from Corinteni b/c in Corinteni it talks about the relatinship betwen man and woman not Christ and Church, you now that word from ROmanian
Seamana dar nu rasare......

[CineOareCine]

Originally posted by DamarisB07
he is a giving and loving God...so y dont u give Him all the respect He needs? If u really love Him...then u wouldnt care about how u looked...b/c i think that is the reason alot of u dont agree on wearing a batic...looks...otherwise i mean if u arent lazy u would be able to at least place a batic on ur head buy foloowing the WORD b/c u wanna please God.
~Damaris~

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1: :thfro: :clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

Yup!.... but of course, there willl come people to justify NOT wearing a batic. :D I don't know.... maybe we should drop this subject.... ;)

[yacko]

Ok, after filtering all the noise on this thread, I found 2 possible reasons for women wearing a head covering. One was presented by hisgirl, who said that women should cover their heads as "... a sign of respect, obedience, and humbleness towards God..." The second argument came from amalia2003 who quoted 1 Cor, 11:5 "A woman dishonors her husband if she prays or prophesies without a covering on her head. "

I am still puzzled by the fact that such a requirement supposedly came from God. What purpose does it serve? Also, in what way would a man be dishonored if his wife prayed with her head uncovered? I am still hung up on the following idea: what is the physical token that men must display in order to show that they are believers?

I know that it is very difficult for some people to ignore their preconceived notions about his issue. Personally, I do not have a strong opinion on the subject because it does not affect me in any shape or form. However, I am sufficiently curious now to find out the answer to this question. Does anybody know of any books on the subject?

[CineOareCine]

I know some human books on the subject. ;) :D

GB.:bsmile:

[Cliewdea]

i agree that the subject should be dropped, because no matter what, people are going to stand by what they believe and i don't think they will change their minds, i personally will not, and we will just end up arguing, which i think we are doing now, and i don't think thats right.

[Fobromo22]

i dont think this subject should be dropped because it has to be talked about no matter what just like alot of differetn topics but the thing is if you drop it, it will still be brought up another time so why not talk about it now.. well, my point of view if woman should really wear a batic or not is this in the bible it quotes that long hair is also a covering over thier hair, but i dont think you really have to waer a big batic to cover your hole face . i think its how you aprroch God and if you humble your self a batic is a physical sign of humbleness when you come before the lord and the truth is this isnt such a big issue if we should or shouldnt waer a batic look at it this way if we knew that if you wear a batic will garuntee our salvation and going to heaven then i think that even the guys would be waering them the main idea is that it is an act of humbleness and humility towards the Lord.

[yacko]

I am also interested in knowing whether the Muslim requirement for women to cover their heads (or sometimes their faces also) stems from a similar custom that Paul was talking about. We have to realize that Christianity is not the only religion that alludes to women covering their heads.

The Muslim requirement originated from the same cultural environment that gave birth to the Christian traditions. Therefore, it makes sense to try to figure out where is the common origin. Any pastors out there willing to give it a try?

[imparateasaluidavid]

[CineOareCine]

Yeah, but it's not really like that... "if she feels..." like, some girls don't feel like wearing scarfs just cause. it's a matter if, you have even the slightest feeling like you're rebeling to something. GB:bsmile:

[app_03]

Originally posted by Dorin Bogdan
Wrote by Amalia2003
OK but,in Christ no women is w/out husband because we are Christs' bride.

I don't think that you can put this sentence with the one from Corinteni b/c in Corinteni it talks about the relatinship betwen man and woman not Christ and Church, you now that word from ROmanian
Seamana dar nu rasare......


It talks about the relationship between man and woman, and also it shows the similarity between Christ and his church IE. His bride.

[Andy]

It talks about the relationship between man and woman, and also it shows the similarity between Christ and his church IE. His bride.

you know, christian males are considered to be the "bride" of Christ too...must WE wear scarves? :scratch:

[CineOareCine]

That's true.... but hey! I thought that the whole point of wearing a batic is to not dishonor the man, who's head is Christ. :confused:

[app_03]

Originally posted by Andy
you know, christian males are considered to be the "bride" of Christ too...must WE wear scarves? :scratch:


That's what happens when u r not thinking spiritualy. No offense meant. GBU

[Andy]

um, thinking spiritually? none taken. if you want to make the comparison between Christ to Church and man to woman then you can't exclude males. that's what happens when you try to relate two things from different contexts. :)

[app_03]

Originally posted by Andy
um, thinking spiritually? none taken. if you want to make the comparison between Christ to Church and man to woman then you can't exclude males. that's what happens when you try to relate two things from different contexts. :)

It's not relating two different contexts it's understanding it through the light of the Holy Ghost. Haven't u ever read The Song of Songs?

[Andy]

Yup, I have. I understand the relation between Christ and His Church, and husband and wife...but that doesn't mean, in this case, that "all women must wear a scarf because technically, they're the bride (notice it doesn't say wife) of Christ." if you want to think like that, then males would have to wear one too. period.

[Cliewdea]

you guys need to stop arguing over something that won't change others opinions on this subject.

[SugerNSpice07]

this subject si redicules its bad if you dotn wear it at church but other times its okay

[gabi_m]

i can't believe you guys still argue such a nonsense subject....[...]...some misinterpret the bible and they get conufused and start posts like this one...
i might be wrong but i've seen that there are more guys that argue about the batic issue than girls....why do you guys care anyway? you don't have to wear one...so let the girls speak out on this ok?....the batiq thingy is just a symbol..it is nothing in itself...compared to what christ really means the whole batiq thing is nothin' but garbage.

[stinkinQT]

gabi_m.. you are so right.. for once I agree with someone on this site. Dude.. we have like 20 million batic forums.. stop starting new ones.. wear on if you think you need to.. if you dont..then dont! There isn't much more to discuss guys.. sheesh..

[cutegirl]

Originally posted by Andy
Yup, I have. I understand the relation between Christ and His Church, and husband and wife...but that doesn't mean, in this case, that "all women must wear a scarf because technically, they're the bride (notice it doesn't say wife) of Christ." if you want to think like that, then males would have to wear one too. period.

That's your opinion and u r right period.

[CineOareCine]

Originally posted by gabi_m
i've seen that there are more guys that argue about the batic issue than girls....why do you guys care anyway? you don't have to wear one...so let the girls speak out on this ok?....

:thfro: :thfro: Totally true... guys... shush!!! :p

GB:bsmile:

[Andy]

well, the original poster didn't specify females only...but if that's what you want, alrighty! :hippy:

[georgia]

IT DOES SAY IN THE BIBLE THAT A WOMAN IS TO "COVER HER HEAD" BECAUSE IT SHOWS AUTHORITY FIGURE ..... THIS IS THE ROLE THAT THE GURLS PLAY HERE..........WE DECIDE WETHER THAT ROLE IS GoD AND OR OUR HUSBANDS...BECAUSE gOD WILL ALWAYS BE OUR AUTHORITY FIGURE...SO U CAN LOOK AT IT LIKE THAT OR...............U CAN SAY WELL MY AUTHORITY FIGURE IS MY HUSBAND SO U CAN WEAR SOMETHING TO SHOW THAT U HAVE A HIGHER AUTHORITY TO RESOND TO...WETHER THAT BE UR HUSBAND OR GOD..THEN U GET IN TO WHAT U WEAR AS A SYMBOL OF AUTHORITY.THAT BEING UR LONG HAIR OR UR BATIC.......... BUT THEN U ASK URSELF HOW THICK, THIN SHOULD UR BATIC BE? OR WHAT A BOUT SHORT OR LONG HAIR? DOES IT MATTER THEN IF U HAVE SHORT HAIR CAUSE ITS TRENDY? OR LONG HAIR CAUSE THAT'S WHAT IT SAYS IN THE BIBLE ANY ONE WANNA ANSWER BACK TO THAT?

[eu sint]

guy stop it. GOD don't like it when you fight over anything. Daca noi nu putem sa ne undersand each other, and we don't fit on the sight because of one another, how on gods green earth are we gona fit in hevan. You can't make some body belive something just because you do so lets just drop it!!!!!!!!! Ok!

[eu sint]

it is a discution not a argument

[KRaKALAkIN]

NO, I THINK WHEN YOU ASK "SHOULD WOMEN WEAR A BATIC," IT QUALIFIES AS AN ARGUMENT.

[maria]

Anyone who sits here and makes excuses about why its ok to not wear a batic is just trying to justify their actions.

[65stang]

AMIN MARIA

[cosmin]

Originally posted by KRaKALAkIN
NO, I THINK WHEN YOU ASK "SHOULD WOMEN WEAR A BATIC," IT QUALIFIES AS AN ARGUMENT.

please read the royouth rules and regulations (http://royouth.com/rules.html) before you make such a statement.

if a discussion ever starts in such a way where it is intended to be an arguement the thread WILL be deleted.

there can be discussions where people agree to disagree :sly:

[KRaKALAkIN]

OUCH THATS HARSH. INTERESTINGLY ENOUGH HOWEVER THE SAME AUTHOR WHO ENCOURAGES THE BATIC ALSO SAYS THAT WHEN PEOPLE SPEAK IN TONGUES, ONLY ONE SHOULD SPEAK AT A TIME, AND IF MORE SPEAK, THAT AT THE MOST ONLY 3 SHOULD SPEAK. AND WHEN THEY DO SPEAK, SOMEONE HAS TO TRANSLATE TO THE CHURCH WHAT WAS SAID. WELL... I DUNNO ABOUT YOU GUYS' CHURCHES BUT I DONT SEE IT HAPPENIN. ITS LIKE 2435432 PEOPLE SPEAKIN 3425432 LANGUAGES AND NOBODY'S UP FOR THE TRANSLATIONS. BUT WE DONT GET CAUGHT UP IN THAT WHOLE 'RULE' THING. WHY? BECAUSE WE 'JUSTIFIED' IT BY SAYING BLA BLA BLA SOMETHIN OR OTHER THAT ITS OK. *BUT* THE BIBLE SPEAKS PRETTY CLEARLY ON THIS.

I THINK MEN HAVE AN INFERIORITY COMPLEX ISSUE THAT MAKES THEM FEEL THE NEED TO KEEP THE WOMAN IN CHECK. HE THEN, HOWEVER, 'JUSTIFIES' THIS OTHER STUFF. THATS FINE. MAKE THE WOMEN WEAR THE BATICS, BUT IN CHURCH, MAKE EVERYBODY SHUTUP AND WHEN SOMEONE SPEAKS IN TONGUES, TRANSLATE. OR--- QUIT PUSHIN THE BATIC AGENDA AND LET THE SALVATION THING BE WHAT IT WAS INTENDED TO BE: PERSONAL.

[UNDRCOVR]

wow, for once i agree with u krakalakin!

:D UNDRCOVR :D

[eu sint]

i think that women really have to use a batic. Is it worth your eternitty? What if that cloth makes the differnce of heven and hell?

Nu va jucati cu Dumnezue!!!!!!!!

Da eu cred ca toate fetele si femaile care nu port batic are going to hell! American or not!

[cosmin]

Originally posted by eu sint
i
Nu va jucati cu Dumnezue!!!!!!!!

Da eu cred ca toate fetele si femaile care nu port batic are going to hell! American or not!
listen to your advice.. 'nu te juca cu D-zeu' ...

show us where in God's word you base your belief on. Nowhere in my Cornilescu, KJV, NIV, etc. does it say that:

toate fetele si femaile care nu port batic are going to hell! :sly:

[cg :)]

I personally have to agree with Andy in pretty much all that he/she says... It doesn't sound like he/she has a complex, it sounds like they've got their head screwed on!

[Levi19]

Wow, would I have loved to be in the discusion when it first started, I would have been right there at the top stating my input on this subject. I just now got a hold of this forum, and I read the first 3 pages and it's just too much for me to read. All the people who had something to say in the begining no longer respond. I think it's been debated enough and I no longer have anything to say.

a few things before I go, Do all of you that actually think they have something to say here have taken a very good look at their lives and made sure they are where GOD wants them to be? Make sure you are straight with God before you even set your finger down to type and after you do that you may continue, .... won't be here for a while will you,.... I thought so.
Another thing, don't think that just because someone is new to Royouth, they don't know anything, knowledge and wisdon don't come just from seniority to this site.
One last thing, wearing a batic or not is not simply a matter of going to hell or not, it's much more than that.

[Andy]

what could possibly be more significant than spending eternity with or without God? interested in hearing what you have to say about the topic, levi...

I really think it's healthier to let your life and love for your husband be a better symbol for being "under his authority" than wearing a head scarf. such requirements sound very similar to the old covenant God had with the nation of Israel before it was done away with and replaced with His grace.

[Moe]

Hey cosmin i totaly agree with u and sorry if i hurt someone with this thread i did'nt mean it i just wanted to see what every one thinks about it...............................





:):):):):):):):):)

[crustyorez]

You See,...

Something like this always stirs up emotion. I know that first hand, cuz people always Get mad and me and want to knock me a good one, cuz i speak about such things.
Eu Sint. Don't get all upset about this, and DON'T SAY THAT ALL WOMEN WHO DON'T WEAR A SUPPOSED HEAD COVERED ARE GOING TO HELL. Do you know what you just did when you said that????? You made the Death and sacrifice of Christ insufficent for a womans salvation. A head covering signifies nothing of a persons faith and belief in our Lord Jesus Christ.

For example. Do you know why men are not to have their heads covered? If you think to our Jewish bretheren, what do males have on their heads. Yup a covering. But Paul brings into argument that we are not to cover our heads. Why does he say that? for the simple reason that a Jewish male covered his head in shame for the sin he exists in and that it brought reverence to God. They had to cover their heads before entering a temple to worship or bring a sacrifice to God. Yet us male Christians don't wear a covering no more, for we are commanded and told not to. but we are covered. Do you want to know our covering. It is Christ. i don't cover my head in shame of sin or in reverance to God because Christ is my ultimate Covering, he is my head, as the Head of Christ is the father.

Now back to the ladies. The word Paul uses for Covering in the first three verses, it is used to represent an analogy. "for those who know Koine Greek, you can understand what i'm saying" Meaning it is what is says it is but then it isn't.. lol yeah, i know a bit confusing,. here's an example. Christ is the Head of the Church, i'm sure we all agree with that, but then again.. me using and saying the word head,. doesn't necessarily mean that Christ is an actual HEAD, like what stands on my neck and shoulders. Intern when paul states that a woman is to have her head covered he is not reffering to an actual head covering as some believe it to be, but moreover a spiritual headcovering. You see, this idea with head coverings deals with a persons character and relationship with their spouse and with God.

Woman, girls, females, whatever it is u deem urself to be, has to be covered in the Spirit. Our sins have been atoned for through Christ and whatever curse has been laid bare upon us has been lifted, For ex. that of submission in relation to man. but before you girls begin to pound urselves in the chest, the curse is lifted but we are to be restored back to how it was with adam and eve, before the fall of man.

In closing, a husband and wife are their own coverings, in it that they pray for one another, that they build one another up, that they respect and love one another how it is taught biblically, and by how they allow the Spirit of God to reside in them in their daily living. It is more of an Identity discussion here, not one of head covering,.. For I myself am Covered in God's Spirit through all that Christ has done for me by the will of the Father.

[Levi19]

Crustyorez, you have a point in saying that if you don't wear a head covering, you go straight to hell. But, you say that in a married couple, they are a covering for one another. That verse should not be taken 100% one way or 100% the other. Meaning you shouldn't say it's 100% symbolism or 100% litterly that way. Why then does it make it clear that "women should wear head covering" and that it is "shamefull for a man to wear a head covering"? Yes we do have to show and declare in our actions and words that their is someone above us(someone head over us".
I know many girl(unmaried) who say they don't have to wear a head covering, at least untill they get married. And a lot of christian girls do that. Y's it that they simply never wear a batic? Anther thing, even the unmarried, y every simple sunday, they don't wear a batic, but "only" at their baptism do they wear one. Isn't everyday that you wake up that you renew you covenant with God. In this case what's the difference between ur baptism and any other day. At you baptism you proclaim before God and the church(as witnesses) that you are willing to follow God for the rest of your life. After that day, don't you want God to still know that you haven't forgottent he covenant you made with him before all. Or was the batic you wore on your baptism just a fasion statement. And those who say they will wear a batic "after" they get married, to show that they have someone over them. Doesn't it say to have your head covered in respect for the angels around you? If you wear it for your husband (who by the way is human) don't you have to wear it that much more for the angels around you and for God (who are much higher than us)? In this case have they not been around you untill you stated before all the witnesses that you chose to follow God.

[Levi19]

Another thing that many people haven't run accross in the bible is that we have to by abide by the law of the land(unless it is against God of course) and also abide by the regulations of the church you are part of, both physically and spiritually. If a church requires you to wear a head covering, even if you don't believe you should wear one, you should still wear one in respect God and HIS WORD. These days, not many not many churches require girls to wear head covering. Hasn't it changed so much, but then u say, that was back in the days, it's different now. Yes it is different, but God never changed one word that He stated before. The things around us, the temptations, the way we live, HAS changed greatly, but not our requirements as christians. I myself have heard many Prophesies from God saying that We are the ones that changed not God. If all of you would know all the great miracles God used to do with our grandparents and their parents. You could then ask yourself why we don't see that much anymore. It is much so rare. Has God changed? Has the way He works changed? One thing I ask, do you guys even desire to see these miracles and His greatness in your lives? There were several prophesies that God wants to do many great things and miricles through the teens of today. I fear that the teens that will be part of that will be a very small number. Here I am talking about prophasies, but do you guys even still hear anymore or even believe in them. I do.
I heard this earlier, that verse was ment fot the corintheans of that age. For all we are concerned that was ment for all the Christians of all ages. Why would God not be consistent with his desires?
One last thing, the Bible has been around for thousands of years

"Has God changed or have we changed?"

[SavedSinner]

What your trying to do is find basis for your argument in something else. Where the idea of a headcovering, a literal headcovering has nothing to do with what you just stated.

I can go further and tell you that it was a Jewish tradition of the day, back when paul wrote this to the corinthians. Not only was it Jewish tradition, but everyone's tradition, believer or not, to wear a headcovering. Here Paul is given the chance to address the Corinthian church, which was made up of mainly pagan idoloters and believers before they accepted Christ. and as many new believers we humans try to get a mixture of what we've had from before with what we have now.

In context with this headcovering, Paul is stating and declaring to the corinthian church on how pointless it is to try and ordain a rule of having a woman wear something over her head (outward appearance) to show that she is a believer in Christ. Paul never dealt with the outward appearance concerning women unless it dealt with adultery. and here it's not doing that.

As for the angels.. I thank God for them, and I respect them because they are used by God to help us out and do tasks for our creator. what is it that an angel finds appauling in a Christian woman life? ex 1. that she doesnt' cover her head in revereance of them (the angels) or 2. or the insubordination of an uncovered woman (signifiying her refusal to recognize the authority of her husband). ? which one is it? it is #2, because to our Heavenly father's angels, when they observe this it doesn't glorify God in anyway shape or form. 1peter 1:12, and Eph. 3:10,

you study more of why Paul wrote about, woman and angels, and this topic of headcover, you realize that it dealt with more then just headcoverings, but that Paul addressed another issue the corinthain church had trouble with, which which was the order of creation and sexual distinction. for ex. why does paul state that adam wasn't made for eve, but eve for adam, but that all things come through eve.? we bash so much on headcoverings that u forget to read the rest of the contextual passage.

and i will bring it into closing here, with the final verse from the contextual passage. 1Cor 11:16 "But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God."

Please read it slowly and try to understand it. But if any man may seem to be contentious.. meaning,. that if anyone has a problem with this,. or wants to start a something with it. ---

WE HAVE NO SUCH CUSTOM, Here Paul uses the word WE, including himself, whomever else he has brough to Christ.

NEITHER THE CHURCHES OF GOD. and again paul states that even the CHURCH of GOD has no such practice.....

So then why do you make such a big emphasis on it?

to be covered when you prophecy, doesn't speak about an actual headcovering,. but that we are covered in the Spirit of God because it is not the headcovering that allows us to prophecy, but the spirit of God, and to a married woman, that she is covered by her husband and that she cover's her husband........

To answer your question about churches that have such rules on wearing a headcovering,.. i'm sorry then,. because it's just someone that believes the same thing you do,.. and i do not, because i don't limit the word of God, in it that i never indoctrinate myself out of ignorance to such a topic, i try to get a complete understanding of it. no tradition, nothing habitual, only from God..... i'm sorry if you don't agree with me, there are plenty of people with your stand point on it.

Wearing a covering doesn't make anyone more then they are,.. that is why,.. everything we have disscussed deals with the spiritual aspect, and a persons character aspect in our lives..

aka crustyorez

[maria]

I'm sitting here trying to figure out why people feel so strongly against wearing a batic. You all act as if you weren't raised knowing that its respectful to wear a scarf in church. Don't any of you think that you're being disrespectul to GOD when you sit here and come up with arguements on why you shouldn't have to wear a scarf?? Next thing I'll see on here is that it's a sin to actually wear a scarf.

How come you all feel so strongly against wearing a simple head covering out of respect for Heaven and everyone around you, but it's not a sin to do everything that I've heard everyone else does. Some of the things that goes on around Christian Romanian Communities is pretty pathetic! And after doing all of that, people actually get on here and argue about why they don't need to wear a scarf because they'll go to heaven without it. Maybe wearing a scarf will actually help you out in GOD's eyes! None of you actually look at it that way though. You look at it as a way of ruining your hair.

[DINGLEBERRY]

hey, i know there have been many threads liek this.. and stuff. but i'm a little confused on this, will some one clear it up for me?

1 corinthians 11:15 : But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her, for her hair is given to her for a covering.

i mean , i dont argue much anymore about wearing a batic. it was an annoying thing in the beginning, but now i dont really pay much attetion to it. i dont' argue with my parents about this issue anymore. but thats something i found in the bible that confused me b/c everyone else says we HAVE to wear one.

also, if no one noticed, the only ppl who seem to be having problems with this batic thing, are young ppl like myself. teenagers like me :) lol i have not seen one lady in her 30's or a married lady complaining about the batic rule thing..

god bless,
Diana

[Chicago2003]

oh come on people! you know that you argue against a "batic" cos you just hate wearing it, if you didn't you wouldn't argue so passionately against it. I guess you really want to escape your romanian identity and just be more like the Americans. Hey, go for it! I'm not the one to judge. It's just a piece of cloth! SUCH a big deal! :bow:

In heaven there's no fashion show. trust me.

btw (no offense to the Americans, they have received the faith differently than we Romanians have... we sholdn't compare ourselves to them but to the Bible.)

[Chicago2003]

I know the Bible clearly states that a woman should cover her head when she's praying, etc. you pray in church, right? so you should cover your head when you're in there. Now it'd look weird if you just cover your head at prayer and singing time and then take it off the rest of the way, so it's better if you just keep it on all the way. and the bible does NOT specify WHAT kind of covering as long as your head is covered.

Now if you guys don't wanna cover your heads, that's your problem...God gives us free will too. Each will answer in front of God accordingly. If your heart and conscience (which should be led by the Holy Spirit) tell you to obey the Bible and cover your head, then by all means do that. If not, then don't. I, for one, decided to obey God's word. I'm not perfect, but this is so simple. No big deal.

Peace!

[Andy]

maria,
I have a problem with any false doctrine being pushed onto anyone...that's where it becomes more than "just wearing a piece of cloth on your head".

[FetitaDePeMarte]

i thought only married women wore batics...to like show they're married???? i have no idea lol...but i dont wanna wear one...they're like...ugly..

[Levi19]

FetitaDepeMarte, it is clear that you don't wear a batic because of a personal appearance problem. I agree with who say why not just wear it and be better safe then sorry. You won't go to hell or anything if it ends up that girls never had to wear a batic in the first place. It's just so simple,
Crustyorez, I give you the benefit of the doubt, you are 100% correct when Paul said it's not a costum, and that was so true of him and the people he was around, but do you not notice that IT HAS BECOME A COSTUM OF THE ROMANIAN CHRISTIAN CHURCH????????? A little question, do you think you will be more disscouraged, angered, dissapointed, whatever you want to say, if you believed u should wear a batic and you see someone not wearing one, compared to if you don't believe you should wear a batic and you see someone wearing a batic. Didn't God say in his Word to not be a temptation to those around you???

I have the same questions as others have, why are you so against wearing a batic????? Why do you use all your knowledge and all your power and lots of excuses to prove that girls are not required to? If it says something in the bible, why not more easily accept it then try to reason and narrow God's Path. Is it that hard to wear a batic????

PicklesandOlives, I do not know why God would let it be such a controvery, it says both that girls hair could be the covering but it also says that if a girl(woman, wife, ets) doesn't wear a head covering, then she might as well cut her hair. I do not know that but I know it matters not if it was for the corintheans or for us nowadays, what's the difference.

Another question, I've asked it before but for some reason, people are afraid to touch this part of the subject and use excuses that it's off the topic. Can we say that we see the same miracles, and God's work in the church as much as people in the old days did, and again, has God changed? Or have we changed?, Haven't we become more liberal and accepting of many more things?

Brout up before, why do the younger girls have such a problem with wearing a batic and the older women have no problem??????? Since when have we teens become smarter than the ones that live much longer than us and experience much more than us, meaning the elders? Since when are we smarter then them?

One last statement, I think girls look really cute with batics!!!!!!lol but true

[Levi19]

We could sit here and discuss back and forth for the next couple of years on this subject. The simple fact is that if one was raised one way and another the other, it would only take a mirracle from God to convince either one to finally agree one thing. Has anyone from reading all these threads changed their minds from one side to the other, or has our humanly instinct of stuburnness taken over so much that we refuse to open our eyes?

[FetitaDePeMarte]

all i know is...that i wont be wearin a batic anytime soon lol1!!

[65stang]

Sucks for you fetitadepemarte

[KRaKALAkIN]

HMM FOR SOME REASON I FAIL TO BELIEVE THAT WHEN SHE COMES BEFORE THE LORD ON JUDGEMENT DAY, HE'S GONNA SAY 'U DIDNT WEAR A BATIC, SO DEPART I KNOW U NOT.'

[FetitaDePeMarte]

Originally posted by 65stang
Sucks for you fetitadepemarte


and why is that? for some reason i think this whole head covering thing is just part of culture...romanians wear batics...americans dont wear anything...the people from iraq or egypt or whatever country they wear those big head covering things and u can only see their eyes.....well i think Jesus still loves me if i dont cover my head...right? and yes krakalalin, i dont think im gonna be banned from heaven because of it..

[vikimo]

Originally posted by Levi19


Brout up before, why do the younger girls have such a problem with wearing a batic and the older women have no problem??????? Since when have we teens become smarter than the ones that live much longer than us and experience much more than us, meaning the elders? Since when are we smarter then them?

One last statement, I think girls look really cute with batics!!!!!!lol but true

younger girls grew up differently...and we are wise when it comes to what we are dealing with now a days...think about it...things weren't the same 5 years ago, or 10 or 20 or 100 years ago...and each one of us is wise to what we are growing up in...
i know this q has been asked..but ill ask again.... Americans don't wear batic when in church, in fact I've just seen romanians wearing batics...does that mean that only Romanians will go to heaven?

I think NOT wearing a batic is a sin when you don't wear it just to prove something or to rebel...but some people don't find it necessary to wear one. the batic was a cultural thing back in the old days...and somewhat still is...in some countries ( i forgot which..but ill find out)..it's disrespectful if you come with your ankles showing...but it's ok to wear whatever else you want...here...an example of a CULTURAL issue..

[Levi19]

Hey, if you wanna be like the Americans, go ahead and go to ur church that you are part of in pants, (or shorts if it's summer) all dressed up nice and casually. Why don't u just take all of their costom way instead of just not wearing a batic. One thing to think about is " A good name is more preacious that a great treasure" from the bible, and if u decide to be like the americans, why don't you just go to an american church? Don't bring the American ways into a Romanian church. After all, we still are Romanians and we still have Romanian services in our Romanian churches don't we. God's church will come together when the time is right, but it's not up to you to bring the American and the Romanian church together, especially since it will create so much disbelieve, so much chaos and such a big tear up of churches.

You ask, does that mean the americans will all go to hell, I ask, are you AMERICAN? Everyone will be judged based on how they were raised and tought and by what they have learned. You and I were raised in Romanian churches by the Romanian ways. The americans were raised by the american ways in American church by their own costums. And please don't you even dare say that I'm discriminating, I'm only showing you the obvious difference.

I wanna ask you a very serious question. Do you read the bible? Answer me this and I'll tell you exactly where you went wrong.

A little note from the bible, it says that the elders are to teach the younger. NO MATTER HOW ADVANCED EVERYTHING IS, a belief is still a belief even if it's 2000000 years ago or just yesterday. How bout we make this much easier, God doesn't change, he stays the same, asks of the the same things finds pleasure in the same things he did hundreds of years ago. Are we trying to please the world of today and the technology of today, OR are we trying to please GOD?????

something's come to mind, the arab wear to whatever you wanna call them, will they not be able to go to heaven? I know your answer will be they would be able to, why don't you wear those things then?? They're going to heaven.

DO you not see the level of the presence of GOD in the church today compared to 5, 10, or 100 years ago??? HE's the same GOD. The world changed and we changed with it and HE no longer finds pleasure in us and we are no longer after His heart.

[Levi19]

Why don't you guys look at the spiritual status difference of today and of our parents and grandparents. It's so obvious. That will show us very clearly that we in fact have driffted from The Path.

[electroclashh]

ok it does say in the bible that you should judge for your ownselves. i personally dont wear them, but to those who do, well they grew up that way, and they feel that wearing a batic is right. i dont put them down for wearing one but sometimes they put me down. but yea...all i got to say is that if u feel right wearing one, wear it. if you dont feel right wearing one, then dont wear it. simple as that.

[FetitaDePeMarte]

Originally posted by Levi19
Why don't you guys look at the spiritual status difference of today and of our parents and grandparents. It's so obvious. That will show us very clearly that we in fact have driffted from The Path.


hahah maybe the teens from ur church drifted from The Path, but my church is different hunny!! we are so filled with the spirit....sundays are awesome...monday's we have youth night which is even better than sundays sometimes...we pray we sing, we praise the lord, and He answers back to us!!!! so yea...bell just rang but im gonna get back to this sometime later....God blesS!!

[Moe]

hey do u think that if u just sing, and you pray u are filled with the spirit.................... i dont ///////////////
Question how does GOD answer back to u guys>>>>
like in what ways does he do it cause at our church sunday night the 19 we prayed for a lady that had problems she was using a h2o tank of air every where she whent, we prayed for her and she has not been using that tank ever since,


u should have seen that it was so....amazing
i just wanted to know ...........................

cause i think that ur not filled with the spirit if u dont come before god like it says in the bible,,,, for women to ,,,,, and for men to .....


:) :) :) :) :)

[FetitaDePeMarte]

hey i didnt say that if i sing and pray im filled with the spirit!!! we were filled because God's presence was there, and is there with us everytime...and because his forgiveness puts smiles on all our faces...and he answers us!!! last monday we were all praying for individual problems, or whatever we had in suflet...and at the end almost everyone was able to declare that in Christ their problems were solved...also...our youth often gets visions or translations from the Holy Spirit, and God tells us He wants to use us...He tells us soo much and all the time after being in partasie cu tinerii si everything, i leave home and i cant stop smiling...the peace he puts in my soul is amazing..sometiems i dont even wanna leave ..i just wanna stay at church longer......that..my friend..is being filled!!...but yea dont wanna drift too far from the subject....sorry..

[NeXuS_21]

i totally agree with u LEvi on that.....plus it won't kill any girl to wear a batic.. :sly:

[Levi19]

Moise Iovescu, I see you got my drift. That's what I'm talking about. Yes it is great to be filled with the fruit of the Holy Spirit, but what's even greater is to be filled with the Holy Spirit himself. Believe me, I know how it feels to rejoice in God and to feel the joy He gives me, it's not much different at our church. But hasn't God done much more in the earlier years than just put smiles on our faces? I would love to have an elder to just sit us all down and tell us of all the great and wonderfull thing's that He's done in their lives. And whenever that does happen, it just makes me so jelous that they felt and seen that and we haven't. God has promised us that He will do wonders through the teens also. He said that the elders will be amazed and even be jelous. Imagine that, wouldn't that be wonderfull? It's not that simple though, we have to do our part of the bargain. We have to follow God and do all His desires, and to be after His likes. I so wait for the time when He uses us teenagers.
FetitaDepeMarte, are you filled with the Holy Spirit, and have the asurance by speaking in toungs??? I have heard so many people confessing that when they got it, it was un unexplainable feeling, the best feeling that they have felt ever in their lives. My 3 older brothers and my older sister, they all have the Holy Spirit, I have been trying to get it for about 6 years now and I know God will fill me too, I just wanna experience God for myself personally in my life, to know what it truly means to feel God and know he is in me. And I pray that God fills us all with the Holy Spirit.

[FetitaDePeMarte]

yup!!! i sure am filled!! its wonderful!!! i only got baptised with the Holy spirit this year (earlier in feb)but i can already feel its blessings, its guiding, its comfort...He's like my best friend~!~ its great!! i'll pray for u...just stay close to him, have faith and never ever give up!!! Be strong brother..God bless

[Moe]

Yes thats wonderfull i had a touch of god and i want to say that god works in very wonderful ways,,,,
God is baptizing in our church teanagers and he's been present/ we felt his presents / i sure did after i got baptized i thought i was in a diffrent world compared to every one else its wonderful...
i tryed to stay close to him and i felt his presents but satan came to me once and pulled me away and even to this day i still feel sorry for that day moments or what ever it was ..................
after school started i couldnt,,,, fast ,,,,, i just started to have prob and satan realy got to me and even know im still trying to get back up///////////////i hate satan but he attacks like a theaf like it says in the bible and i pray for every one not to fall in ispita from satan hope u do the same.............................................. ....
hope u do the same...........God started a revival in our church with the teenagers and im very happy to see him work.............................................. .................................................. ........................
God Bless u all
Sorry off the subject........................................... .....................

[Levi19]

Hey MoiseIovescu, I just recently got back up from one of the moments where I felt I had no power and I just couldn't do it on my own. It was hard and no matter how much I tried, I just couldn't get back to where I was before. Until one sunday night after prayer meeting I was so sick and tired of it that I just came before God will all my heart and told Him sincerely, "God I cannot do this, I really need your help, please help me get back up and use me" I have come before Him that way before but this time it was different, I was all by myself in my car and I was crying like crayzy and even ended up yelling too. At that point, I wasn't even sure if God would even listen to me anymore, the very next day He gave me an answer and I was 100% positive He was listening. From that night on, it's been different. Satan still comes at me with temptations, but God's helpinig me overcome them. Before, I would feel power less and slip so easily.

[Levi19]

FetitaDePeMarte, I'm happy for you that you had the privalege to be filled with the Holy Spirit, something we cannot live without. Right now since you are still newly filled, it is important to stay aware and not wonder carelessly. I have heard many times that it is not enough to just be filled with the Holy Spirit and feel His presence, but to desire with all our hearts to be touched even more by God and to be filled with the Gifts also. If we reach one level of spirituallity and we don't continue to prosper and increase, it is not enough before God. He wants us to constanly grow. No matter how close we get to Him, we are never at the level where we should be. Therefore, He finds pleasure in the constant desire to please Him and get closer to Him

[FetitaDePeMarte]

yuppppp!!!exactly!! he wants us to mature in Him, to grow in Him!! and i just want more and more of Him!!

[Levi19]

I do not understand. At least one person responded to this forum every single day. No one has written anything in days. Well, I guess we did go a little off the topic.

[Daniel M.]

HI to you all and God bles you all! With all do respect GOD HAS NOT CHANGED. So my q is why are people changing ? Do we really belive that our parents were raised that bad ? Maybe we feel that we are smarter ,or maybe is because we failed to follow them. At our age I can say that our parents were much stronger spiritually then we are now in our days. So if we say that id does not matter what you wear why isnt more power in us today than it was back in the days?????????

[Levi19]

Daniel M. have you read the past couple of threads before we got really of the topic? It seems like you are answering a question I asked earlier, "Has God changed or have we changed?" along with several other questions and statements.

[Moe]

Hey thats very interesting levi19 how do u feel now ....????........
Hey i think that god never changes but we change ....,/,/,./,,',;l,/.,
like with wearing a batic in cap it was like that from the bigning
and we changed it we are not the persons we were in the past ,..,.,..,.,.,,.,.,.we change every day some change for good
some change for bad were all diffrent ,./,,.,/ i think that we as romanians we should actualy follow our ancestor and wear a batic
and come to church dressed properly have no jewlery and be
the salt of the world or more like to say the light in the dark/ in this world.........i think our ancestors were saints and we should follow them and the bible.....................in what ever we do ..................... ;) :0) :000 00000 00000 :) ;) AND ESPACIALLY THE BIBLE.....AND WHAT GOD TELLS US TO
Hey what do u guys think should we follow our ancestors and wear the batic or no.................................. not only because the bible says but because thats how we are supposed to ............
your supposed to come with a clean heart and in a way that god will like us and want us to come .................
WELL YOU LADIES MORE TO SAY.........
P.S. ya people come on get on here are we all sleeping ........:) :) :)

[Ajax]

sure

[Moe]

ow what is thatt supposed to mean ..................
coem on ,/.,/,</,<>/</.,/>,?<?<,<?,.?>?>.>,?/,';,'
;'',;,<>:'[]980370-7^$#%*^&#%(#^%(&$&#%^*#


ok my bad j/k

[Nollie540]

The 10 comendments were set by God. Among those 10 comendments every church has it's own "community laws." If the church you attend tells you you can't drive a Mercedes to church, then don't drive one to church. It's not a sin, of course, but every church has it's own reasons for setting such "interesting" laws. Can we say that a person that has tatoos goes to hell? No. Same with batic, jewerly, fashion, own personal actions (these are very sensitive) etc. That is my oppinion, and what I could see in each and every church...Romo or American or what have you. I met American youth, that are not allowed to whear pants, or short skirts to church (reffering to girls), and have to wear batic, and guys can't wear ties etc. It's not just in romanian community, but in each church is different. Depending on how you feal at church, how close can you draw yourself to God is what is important. If you understand the laws set by the community of the church and they don't influence you in any bad way of you getting that closeness to God...then it's good. If that affects your ability to worship God, change your church! Since wearing a batic is a very old law and they are not mandetory for women of today to be accepted in the Kingdom of God, no it's not a sin. But it could be if you don't respect the law of your own church!

[Levi19]

Moise Iovescu, we can never go wrong by following in the path of our ancestors. We can, however, have the posibility of going wrong if we trace our own path. To trace your own path you need to know where you are trying to go, and you need somewhat of a guidance, where can we find that guidance but from the bible, by which our ancestors went.
Nollie540, you have already gone wrong by dividing things into past and present. It is a very old law that has not been changed, its is also talked about in the new testament, not the old testament which some say no longer holds true for us. And do not tell me that if some churches allow people to come to church with Jewelry it is ok for them. It is not ok wheter the chruch allows it or not. There's some things that are obove the church's allowance. It says it clearly in the bible, Throw away your jewelry and turn to Me. If some church's allow people to come with shorts or girls with pants, do not forget that it says that you have to come before God dressed cuvincios. And also, doesn't it say that we have to be different then the world and show that we are different, and be a light. It means both by our actions and what we wear. Before you open your mouth, someone can already pinpoint you as someone different, and therefore we should not be ashamed of God and show we believe in Him.

One thing I have to greatly stress to anyone reading this, be very aware of wether something you do is of God or of this worlds. There is a differents and God warns us of this that in the end days, these two will become intertwined with one another more and more and that is not something pleasing to God.

[Daniel M.]

Levi 19 I read some of the threads and knew what you said ,but I had to ask the same q. No GOD hasn't change!!!!!!! But it seems that a lot of plp belive that GOD has changed, or maybe I'm wrong informed.

One more q what do you guys think about women beeing pastor in a church, and teaching from the Bible? Cuz I saw this hapening on TBN Network.

[Levi19]

There is another forum going around about wether or not women should be missionaries. I really don't know what to say about that one cause one just came to our church Sunday night.
About women being pastors it's a different story. Since when has God put a woman above men. No it is not right for a woman to be a pastor. It requires leading a flock in which men are part of and it clearly says in the bible that man is head of woman, not the other way.

[Andy]

I'm afraid focusing on things not permitted in a church turns people away. worry about winning their souls first and helping them mature in Christ. knowing God, and morality for that matter isn't about what you can and can't do. ethics and such weren't created to limit our life's experiences, rather to show us what we can do and who we can be.

a belief system's history or existence doesn't prove its validity...many times we DO have to trace our own paths. such as Christ did when he defied the Law, or Martin Luther during the reformation.

[MoniM3422]

do you guys realize that it's just mostly guys replying to this tread? well it shouldn't matter to you guys if the girls don't mind or aren't saying anything then y does it matter?

[Moe]

Hey Levi19 i think that you were right ,,,......
Hey Nollie540 your right to our church has that but they werent talking about that kind of stuff they were talking about drinking and very big sins that we can comit as cristhians that are baptized and belive in god............
I got a q for you ANDY what do u think of the past and can you tell me if we had eny people in the past (talking about our ancestors) doing drugs and all this filthy stuff that people do these days................I say No because they made laws strict laws to help them over come all of this.......BUt they died and they did'nt get a chance to pass it on to us...................

[Levi19]

Hey Andy, Martin Luther had to create his own path because there was no path there before for him to take. He was trying to get his people to have the same freedom all of us had, it's not really that much of a religion but an authority to be free. You are right, Jesus is the one and only one that we should follow completely in the footsteps of but are you forgetting that He is God's son? God gave Him the authority to do what He pleased for all He did was only to please God.
Sometimes creating a new path is good, but that is only if it's better than the path that was already there, and I do not think that there is any better path than the one that the Bible points out and also the same path our ancestors followed much better than us. It's not about it being something of the past but it's about how close we stay to the path that God traced for us. It says it in the Bible that God's path is the only path and that is the path we should follow. Does it not say that?????

[Frate777]

REMEMBER THAT THE BIBLE SAID THE WOMENS HAIR ARE THEIR COVERING SO WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT WE NEED TO WEAR A BATIC?

[Andy]

Levi,
actually, I'm pretty sure many devout Christians existed even during the "reign" of the catholic church. it was their faith that saved them, not their priest nor confession stands. hence, there was indeed a path.

you're right, a new "path" should only be created if it's better than its previous one. keep in mind what you said though

...we can never go wrong by following in the path of our ancestors. We can, however, have the posibility of going wrong if we trace our own path. To trace your own path you need to know where you are trying to go, and you need somewhat of a guidance, where can we find that guidance but from the bible, by which our ancestors went.

my only point is that the path of our ancestors, although it kept them in their faith, is not necesarrily the one for us. we are free in Christ to find out for ourselves whether or not something they believe stands when compared to the Bible.

[Levi19]

Frate777, did you not read the part where it said if women do not wear a covering, they might as well cut their hair, it wouldn't make a difference then.

Andy, you quoted me to try to show me that I'm contradicting myself. In no way am I doing that. A new path is a good path if it is better than the one that was already there, but the only path that a christian should take is the path traced out by God throught the whole bible(LIVE IT WELL), therefore, for a christian, there is no better path that can be traced. In any other cases, not pertaining to God's path, there is the posibility for other new and better paths. Understand me????

Originally posted by Andy

actually, I'm pretty sure many devout Christians existed even during the "reign" of the catholic church. it was their faith that saved them, not their priest nor confession stands. hence, there was indeed a path.

I do not understand what you are trying to say by that. Ur last sentence you say there was indeed a path, isn't that what I've been trying to say, if the path is there, why not take it if their ancestors succeeded on it. OH and it is NEVER the preist, pastor, apostal, evanghelist, etc that saves the person, this ability only stays with God, therefore you can say, "through" the pastor, priest, etc. God saved a person. And the confesion stand is not a path, it is an opening to God's path. Therefore someone lost, can go confess their sins and God will forgive them. A sin not confessed is a sin that is not forgiven. It says in the bible Confess your sins to others. Doing it in a box or in a separate room, on the phone or in person, it all depends how the people are used to doing it and which way they feel comfortable, but the bottem line is that they confess.

[Andy]

read what you wrote again...

Hey Andy, Martin Luther had to create his own path because there was no path there before for him to take.

although corruption existed in the catholic church and needed reformation and the allowance of personal access to God's word, there were still people saved based on their faith. now apply that to what I said

my only point is that the path of our ancestors, although it kept them in their faith, is not necesarrily the one for us. we are free in Christ to find out for ourselves whether or not something they believe stands when compared to the Bible.

if it took the wearing of a batic or what some would call legalism to keep our ancestors in the faith, that's fine. I think if today's generation would discipline itself a little more it would realize its ability to have an awesomely infinite fellowship with God without the little impositions through traditions.

[Levi19]

Well, then the problem is there. The generation of today wandered off so much from God's path that there is no way of disciplining themselves anymore. If it's that simple, why hasn't it happened yet? Why do we still not see God work wonders and miracles like he has many years ago? Why is it so hard for a christian of today to FULLY devote his heart to God and put Him first before everything else like school, work, relationships, problems, and everything else that a christian puts up with every single day, and on top of all that Live the Word of God according to what it says not what they believe.

With trial comes error and the more errors we come accross the farther we drift from God and the less we relize where we have ended up. And there is no comparing anything to the Bible, why do you not realize that the Bible is God's word and God is the wise one and there is nothing we can do that is better that God's doing and no path that is better then God's path.

[Moe]

HEy i agree with LEVI19
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, then the problem is there. The generation of today wandered off so much from God's path that there is no way of disciplining themselves anymore. If it's that simple, why hasn't it happened yet? Why do we still not see God work wonders and miracles like he has many years ago? Why is it so hard for a christian of today to FULLY devote his heart to God and put Him first before everything else like school, work, relationships, problems, and everything else that a christian puts up with every single day, and on top of all that Live the Word of God according to what it says not what they believe.

WHY?????????

[Andy]

Why is it so hard for a christian of today to FULLY devote his heart to God...

ahh...you got it. :) it's because of their hearts, not their hair being uncovered.

[Levi19]

Haven't you ever realized the fact that whatever is INSIDE the Heart shows on the outside????

[Moe]

Ouch u got burned man .................................;)
sorry got to agree with Levi19 again ////,/./,/.//,'p[#$^#*(
if u are a real christion u show it on the outside to not only (inside) in church and only when your with christions or around them,...................................../,/,/./,/./,/,./,//./,/./,//./,//,';l'l'l'l';)
;) :) :) :)

[Andy]

of course I have, and that's where we get back into the actual topic "is it necessary to wear a batic?". up until now, I'm glad we've realized that it's our hearts and not the following of our ancestor's paths that rain down God's grace on us.

[Levi19]

How exactly do you think that a good christian should dress, act, speak, etc??? Keep in mind that it does say in the Bible to dress cuvincios and to not use senseless words and to show that God lives in us and many other teachings.

Sorry Moise Iovescu, but I don't say what I say to make others feel bad or to put them down or to disprove them, I only say what I say because it is the right thing to say and with the hope that many more people will fully turn to God.
I know Andy has kind of a different view than us but he is still one of us and all of God's children have to live in unity and in love.

[Moe]

Hey did i not say that i said that we should use them as an example u know ,,, SORRY ANDY i dint mean it like that / in that way you know just as a joke ,,,,,,,,,,,, pls forgive me,,,,,,,,,,,,,,oh and levi19 i didnt mean to say that you were trying to say that to make enyone feel bad.......

Thanks for anderstanding.................





I think that in the end the women should wear a batic.........

;) ANDY .....

[Mike&2I]

Originally posted by Levi19
How exactly do you think that a good christian should dress, act, speak, etc??? Keep in mind that it does say in the Bible to dress cuvincios and to not use senseless words and to show that God lives in us and many other teachings.


I personally consider that as long as you are not offensive through your dressing style and as long as you do not attempt to provoke temptation among the persons of opposite gender, God will accept your vestimentation. One more thing: I think you should dress in conformity with the general trend of the place that you are attending. For instance, I think it would be very snobbish (and unpleasent to God) to go with a $1000 suit among some Christian fellows who barely make it throughout the life.

[zidi]

the bible says that you should have a head covering(nu neaparat batic-ceva decent, nu prea pompos...) when you pray or prophecize. cred ca e 1corinteni11.

[Moe]

OK so when you go to church what do u do at church just an inside question man........................................
lol


:) :) :) :) :)
Quoate>>>>>>>>>>
when you pray or prophecize

[Mike&2I]

I think that God would rather appreciate a worshiper with true and open heart but with usual vestimentation, than a person with a conservative costumation but who has a rigid soul.

[KrazyEuro]

dude you guys totally totally totally totally and one more time TOTALLY take a scripture out of the bible and disregard the rest. People are talking about how 1 corinthian says this and that. AMEN that you guys read the bible..thats awesome..but dont leave everything out..YES in the bible it says for women to cover her head. you want to take it literrally?? awesome lets continue reading that chapter, you ready??? 1st corinthians chapter 11 talks about praising the Lord AMEN. and it says yes women should cover their head. continue to read the chapter pleaes dont just stop. Since you guys wont. i'll finish it for you guys. ready??? 1 corinthians chapter 11:13-16 "13. Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14. Does not the very nature of things to you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15. but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. 16. If anyone wants to be contentoius about this, we have on other practice-nor do the churches of God."
hmmm self explanatory right there. Yes the bible say to cover your head. Take it literally??? ok... the bible carifies in verse 15 that her long hair is her covering. i meant heres nothing really much left to say for the bible says this.. and if you disagree with me. then you disagree with the word of God cus im quoting the bible..this is not my opinion..and the thing is..im using the peoples chapters. you guys used 1 corinthians to prove that you need a "batic"? hehe i used 1 corinthians to prove that you dont. AINT it wierd how alot of people take one verse out of the bible and make assumptious?? finish readin the chapter cus it will explain. And one more thing..PEOPLE be careful. For the Lord says anyone who adds to the word of God will be condemed to hell. im not gonna say anything other than, the bible doesnt say nothing about wearing a batic so please dont be telling people that the bible says its a sin if you dont, cus you are adding your own lil twists to the bible and the Lord doesnt like that :)

[Levi19]

I have a little clarity for you CrazyEuro, You obviously went against what you preached to us. DO NOT TAKE ONE PASSAGE AND LOOK ONLY AT THAT.

Quoted directly from the bible 1Corintians 11:4-10
4"Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head. 5 And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head - it is just as though her head were shaved. 6 If a woman does not cover hear head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head. 7 A man out not to cover his head, since he is hte image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man. 8 For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; 9 neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. 10 For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head."

The verses to be looked at for this discusion are 5,6, and 10.
What do you have to say about that, did God make a mistake and misswrote something??? That's where you are wrong, we didn't add anything, it's written right there in black and white. After reading the whole chapter, then the intentions are to judge for yourself and apply in your life what is best felt by your heart.

Have you read in the Acts, when the word of God was first taught to the nations? There was a debate weather they have to be circumsised or not. The answer was why put a burden on them by making them fallow a law that not even the Jews could keep?? Meaning, for those weaker in their faith and newer to God's word, why put the burden on them to completely cover their head with a head covering other then their hair??? Many girls that have even been born christians can't stay by the first part stated in 1Corintheans 11, why should we force the newer ones that haven't been born in christian families to learn to do something that we should have been used to doing so easily.

[Levi19]

For those of you who do not know where in Acts I am talking about, Read Acts chapter 13 and chapter 15, you will be enlightened.

[KrazyEuro]

Levi thats all gravy baby....but listen really quick and be slow to speak but quick to listen...read what i wrote..i said do you want to think things literally?? if you want to take things literally ok the bible says long hair is the covering thats KRAZY though how your saying im wrong when ijust read the bible..2nd of all..1 corinthians is a letter to the church of corinths...apostle paul wrote to them to give order to them....and those passages are not God speaking its paul and if you read closer it says.... I , not the lord, say .......... and he says what he says..its meant to bring order into church for people were going way off the praising and worship for God. if youw ant to take it literally thats cool... ALL GUYS WITH LONG HAIR CUT YOUR HAIR!!! ALL GIRLS WITH SHORT HAIR GROW YOUR HAIR OUT!!! the bible is meant to be taken literally HOWEVER some of the things are metaphorically speaking...like when Jesus give's us parables....do you take them literally??? i know what 1 corinthians talks about thats one of my favorite books.i read it over and over and i went to a couple of pastors about it....1 corinthians chapter 12 13 and 14 is what draws me to that book...so before you throw bombs at me again read what i wrote in this message too... DONT TAKE THAT LITERALLY FOR PAUL WANTED TO MAKE ORDER INTO THE CHURCH OF CORINTH!!!!!!! as far as batics... eh..and one more thing..if you want to take that literally...who said a batic is the thing to cover your head?? what if i wear a hat to cover my head?? where in the bible does it says its wrong to wear a hat in church?? isnt that a covering???

[KrazyEuro]

you wanna look at those verses too??? cool lets do..but dont say i took only certain verses out of the bible..cus you guys used the first 11 i used the next 3...came out to 14 verses total.or something like that...so be slow to speak and quick to listen/read... please...but lets look at verse 5 shall we.."But every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for that is one and the same as if her head were shaved." verse 6. "If a woman does not cover hear head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head." cool awesome scriptures AMEN.. verse 5 talks about it dishonors them to be uncovered...so keep the hair covered correct?? well verse 1 corinthians 11:15 "but if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering." whoa..so verse 5 and verses 15 go hand in hand...verse 5 says LADIES COVER YOUR HEADS..verse 15 says LADIES YOUR LONG HAIR IS YOUR COVERING...soo umm ok that scratches verse 5 out of your topic...since the bible tells us what covering should be (long hair) lets go ahead and substitue the word cover/covering with long hair ok? verse 6. "For if a woman does not have long hair, let she should have her hair cut off, but if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or shaved, let her have long hair on her head" ...hmmm that kinda makes sense to me...i think thats kinda self explanatory right there...i mean i dont know what else to add to those 2 verses..it kinda makes sense to me..so lets go to verse 10 shall we...10 "For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head." hmmm thats pretty interesting...a sign of authority...by that you believe its the covering right?? and we just went over that the covering is also known as long hair...lets rephrase that verse 2 more times...10 "For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a covering on her head." hmm thats basically what we believe you are trying to say right?? lets rephrase that one more time 10 "For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have Long hair on her head." see the thing is...back then it was shameful for a women to have hair like men...short...where you can not differentiate the two beings...so Paul set a rule for the CORINTHS...and said look.. if you guys want to have long hair thats not cool because you guys need to look like men not girls...it would be disgraceful to see you men up there preaching and looking like girls...to the women he said..look girls...its disgraceful for you girls too look like men..if you wanna look like men you might as well shave ur heads.. and since thats humiliating as it is paul said...thats pretty shameful to shave your head so you might as well keep ur hair long because your husband will like to konw that people can tell you two apart...that makes pretty good sense to me...if you disagree...remember..be slow to speak and quick to listen and wise to think...

[Levi19]

Ok, KrazyEuro, 1&2 Corinthians was for the Corinthians, Romans was for the Romans, Timotei was for Timotei and so on. We just have the bible at our disposal from God to just read about other people's lives and what THEY should do and how to live their lives. RIGHT?????? A little eye opener, the Bible is for all of God's children weather it be a law for us or just an example.
Did you not run accross where Apostal Paul said that "Walk in my steps for I am walking in God's steps." And everything written in the Bible is inspired by the Holy Spirit. Are yo saying then we should only listen to what Jesus said and only what he said? I cannot believe you think that just cause Apostal Paul said it, it doesn't necessary have to be for us.
When Paul talks about a covering, is that a parable??????????
YOU CAN READ that book millions of times, you can have it memorized. It's NOTHING if you don't know what it means. I feel even stronger the need to guide you back to the truth. Just because you have read it plenty of times doesn't make no difference. It says in the Bible through the wisdom given to us by the Holy Spirit will we understand God's word. Have you not read that in the ending days, there will be many false teachings even in the church. Just because you went to thousands of preachers or pasters doesn't mean that you know what it's all about. Nu iti pune increderea in oameni. I'm really begining to think that one of the biggest false teachings these days is to not take anything that it says in the bible literly. It was single way, does it hint that the head covering is not meant to be taken literly. God is head of man but it does not say that man has to wear a covering to show that. It says man is a head of woman, and to show there is authority over them, they should wear a covering. WHAT ELSE COULD A COVERING LIKE THAT MEAN. Even symbolicly, what could it mean. How could a woman show she has authority above her in any other form.
One thing, God gave us the Bible to make order in HIS church. It can not be taken apart to give certain sections for certain type of church members. We are all part of the body of Christ. And we are all one. Eveyone has their own function in the body of Christ but we are all one.
Batics happen to be what the Romanian part of God's church chose to wear as a head covering and it has been passed down from generation to generation.

Correction!!!!! 6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

I don't know what you are thinking but I think you just rewrote that verse. Look at the last time you quoted verse 6. The verse that should clarify what the "covering" should be. If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off, meaning not having her head covered is just as big of a disshoner and disgrace as it is to cut her hair.

Hey buddy look at verse 15 again. It does not go with verse 5, it goes with verse 14. That's why verse 5 and 6 are together and verse 14 and 15 are together. Why aren't verse 5 and 15 together then???????????? Verse 15 talks about comparing having long har to having short hair. It further more explains why it is that a woman should have long hair, because it is a glory to her, not to a man. May I say it again, having long hair is a glory to a woman not to a man. It's only got to do with the comparison of a man and a woman and how each should have their hair. They not only go hand in hand but they are NEXT to each other to explain one another. Now YOU listen well and do not try to stronly aply what you have learned. In this verse, since the discusion about the covering was over with, it uses long hair as a symbolism for having a hair covering. Not the other way around. Take the verses that really go hand in hand (not just metaphoricaly speaking but also physically speaking meaning written one next to the other) and do not bring one from miles away and then you will better understand what it is saying.
Verses 5 and 6 talk about head covering, verses 14 and 15 talk about long or short hair. Look at it REALLLY close.

Look you are very smart and I am not ashamed to admit that I am debating with a girl that is probably smarter than me, but when God gives someone wisdom, that wisdom is from God and it is to understand what God wants. Untill today, I didn't even understand why it seems that the bible was contradicting itself, but now I am thankfull that God has opened my eyes to see what it means. You have ambition to understand God's word, but I pray that you do not get any false teaching through your search.

[Levi19]

Do you still dissagree with me, cause if you do, I am not sure there is anything else I will be able to say for you obviously have researched this book a lil more than me.

[Levi19]

One thing I would like to say to everyone, when you have the ambition to prove something, you will find proof. But when you have the ambition to disprove something, you will again find a to disprove it.

[KrazyEuro]

LOL first off im a GuY! lol :laf: 2nd off...i get a lil Krazy when i speak about such things hense the name Krazy Euro...but listen brotha..you said..thats verses 5,6 are meant for eachother, and 14,15 are meant for eachother right?? and you said if God intended for 5 and 15 to be together he would put them together... FALSE!!!!!!!! throughout the bible my friend...you will see that verse go hand in hand in different books...you can take any verse from the bible and make it go together with another verse that is meant from the bible as well...example..you said that verse 14 and 15 have nothing to do with covering of the head...brother...like i said..be slow to speak and quick to read listen and think...read verse 15 again..actually..let me show you what it says..ready?? 15. but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a 'covering'." hmm the word covering is in that verse..but you say it has nothign to do with the covering..woah...makes no sense..why is it that if a girl were to wear hat in church its a mockery?? i mean isnt that covering her head?? or if she would to wear a hat in ANY church..it would be a mockery?? why?? look dude..BE SLOW TO SPEAK BROTHER PLASE!! the bible says LONG hair is COVERING for womens HEAD it is said in verses 14 and 15..it goes GOOD with verse 5 because verse 5 says GIRLS SHOULD HAVE A "COVERING" see how i quoted covering..thats the word of the day....verse 15 says GIRLS LONG HAIR IS HER "COVERING" see how i quoted covering..isnt it wierd how both verses use the WORD COVERING..and isnt it wierd how PAUL is saying this and isnt it wierd how its found in the same BOOK and isnt it wierd how its found in the same CHAPTER?? and buddy..i never ever said...listen to what only JESUS has to say in the bible and nothing else..QUIT MIS QUOTING ME.....so lets recap...PAUL WROTE CHAPTER 11 ADRESSING IT CORINTHS AND HE SAID TO COVER THE HEAD OF A GIRL AND THAT THE COVERING OF A GIRL IS LONG HAIR...yet you disagree....as far as for me...if this is not good enough solid proof that you dont need to wear a batic..well im done talking in this thread because its turning out to be redundant..your saying the same thing over and over and im saying the same thing over and over..theres no point...your not gonna change your mind...and im FOR SURE am not gonna change my mind...unless you come up with solid evidence stating that you need to cover your head WITH A CLOTH LIKE STRUCTURE..theres no point ....im sorry if i sound harsh..i mean i agree with you..its good debating issues cus i feel it just makes us more eeger to learn the truth about other things not just covering of head...but at the same time..dont say that i said things that i never said..cus i never said dont listen to paul only to jesus or vise versa...thanx for the input you brought...and may God bless you..and i promise from what i got out of your message is that you callin me a false speaker...not cool not cool at all...im basically telling you what the bible says and your coming back with evidence that dont prove nothing you are saying just proving what im saying..so please... READ AGAIN MY EXPLINATIONS BEFORE YOU TYPE AND MAKE NO SENSE!!! :) May the Lord Guide you and Open the heart to awesome livings...God totaly bless you..NO HATE INTENDED!...no disrespect no nothing intended..like i said..i tend to get a lil too into discussions... :)

[Luciano]

krazyeuro---i havnt read all the comments but i absolutely agree with the comments u wrote above! the fact is that the women in corinth had many bad habits and tendencies. some of these included shaving their heads or part of their heads and even standing up and being rude and disruptive in church! hence why paul speaks of women covering their heads with HAIR and keeping thier mouth shut in church-altough not speaking in church is not gods law for women in his church at all)! i also find it so sad that people dont realize that some parts of the bible need to be taken literally while others need a little thought and common sense- which is a gift from GOD also!

[Levi19]

sry you said something bout gravy baby and that you would wear a hat in church instead of a scarf or something like that and u confused me a lil

[Levi19]

Oh and now way in any way will I be slow to speak, just like you I go off crazy too. I am not going to be slow to speak, you cannot tell me that. I know what I'm talking about and in now way will you convince me otherwise. Oh and I didn't say verse 15 had nothing to do with covering, just that it intended a dif subject.

[Levi19]

Please clarify for my WHY OH WHY OH WHY Does it say that if a girl don't have a covering, then she might as well cut her hair? WHY WHY????? and do not tell me it's not to be taken literly, cause you know it is.

[Levi19]

hey dud, I didn't not get a thing out of what you said. Cause I have solid proof myself that it says, if a girl doesn't have a covering, then she might as well cut her hair, you have ur own part of the chapter, I have my own. Obviously your knowledge of this book makes you think you know everything there is to know and that you don't listen to any other option. Look, you've got NO solid evidence. We could quote each other back and forth like this forever but if we don't both see the truth, there's no point. Oh and why did you say that Paul said that from him and not from God. What were you trying to prove by that earlier. I understood that you were saying that what paul says is less important.

How your telling me to not take verses 5 and 6 literly, why can't you not take verse 15 literly. It could be just the same symbolism there is in verse 5 and 6 and no real truth about what the girls should do huh???? And the girls have these bad habits everywhere not just in Corinth. I aplies to everyone, the bible is for everyone HOw many times do I have to tell you this??????

[KrazyEuro]

your right

[Levi19]

Yea your right too. I'm going to Unsubscribe from this thread.


FOR ALL OF YOU WHO WANT TO KNOW IF WOMAN SHOULD WEAR A BATIC IN CHURCH, READ AS MUCH OF THE ALREADY REPLIED THREADS AS YOU CAN AND YOU SHOULD JUDGE FOR YOURSELVES WHETHER OR NOT WOMEN SHOULD WEAR A BATIC IN CHURCH. I THINK THAT MOST OF THE POSIBLE DISSAGREEMENTS HAVE ALREADY BEEN TALKED ABOUT AT LEAST ONCE. IF YOU FIND YOUR ARE STRONGLY AGAINST MY OPINIONS, PLEASE FEEL FREE TO PM ME.

THANK YOU

[romogalNC]

ok i read in the bible the hair is for covering so i dont think u should have to wear one

[KrazyEuro]

the answers are in the Bible... plain and simple text read it..you'll be amazed :)

[Levi19]

Sure you'll be amazed, but do you have any idea how many different interpretations there are for every little thing written in the bible??

[KrazyEuro]

bro....the bible says...women should "COVER" her head..later on in the chapter it says...her HAIR is the COVERING of her head.. tell me how that is misinterpreted???? cmon dude...your living in old school traditions...thats all good..nobody hates....but when you go imposing these and saying YOU HAVE TO WEAR BATIC...thats the misinterpretation of the bible...

[Levi19]

Krazyeuro, I am not the one Imposing these and saying You have to wear a batic. First of all, every church that says you have to, is run by someone older than me, someone much smarter than me, even if you say they are hardheaded people, people living in the past, buddy, the past makes us who we are today. Tell me how anybody went wrong in how they lived in the past? No that did not cause them to get away from God, their hearts did.

1Corintheans 11:6 If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.

interpret that for me in you own words!!

[Ro_USA_Pride]

KrazyEuro
hey bro to you everything in the bible is a misinterpretation of the bible i would really wana know what is not a misinterpretation of the bible to you? because as Levi19 said its right there in the bible so any females must wear a scarf or cut her hair off........

[KrazyEuro]

thats my point im trying to make...you guys take one verse and say" interpret it"..you want me to intepret that verse??? no problem...that verse simply says...if you people dont cover your heads..shave it because its disgraceful to have your head uncovered....thats what that verse says...but what im telling you.. is to not take ONE verse and interpret it!!!..you must take many verses to see what the author is actually trying to say from that one verse!!! dont be taking a verse out of the bible to use that against your side of things...rather look through the bible and search what that verse means...it ties down to the verses around it...from verse 1 all the way to the end of that chapter... thats like me....if i go through the bible..and i say..."well in the bible i read that the bible says that there is no God" and then thats how i believe...cus in the bible it does say that...did you know that?? yah i can intepret that verse and say...well i guess theres no God cus the bible says there isnt...but if you read the verse from before it says that..."Only Fools believe there is no God" hmmmm you see what im saying??? you cannot take a verse out of the bible and say...oh this verse is saying this and this and this and that...when the verses before it and after it totally contradict what your trying to say...apostle paul wrote to the Corinths because the way they were doing their worship was False...so he set down rules for THAT CHURCH! and in his quest for placing Rules/Regulations in the church..you will see numerous statements by him stating... "I, not the Lord, say......" and then he says what he says...thats like me going to isreal and saying "I, not the Lord, say that you should start wearing Nike Shoes in order to please God, for the grounds are dirty but your feet must remain clean" understand what im saying?? Paul wrote that for Corinthians, does it mean it applies to everyone?? like everyone says..people misintepret the bible however they want...the thing that i do is...I SHOW PROOF FROM THE BIBLE THAT SHOWS THE VIEWS THAT I HOLD TO! all im asking you to do.. is show me a verse in the bible that say YOU MUST WEAR A COVERING OVER YOUR HEAD OTHER THAN YOUR HAIR! because if you throw me the verses from 1 corinthians out to me...thats gonna be redundant cus we went over and over about this and that covering Paul was talking about is simply summed up in the final verses that the covering is the Long Hair of every women... hey if you want to take that chapter literrally and apply it to these days, tell all the guys with Long hair that they better cut their Hair or they are disgracing God, and tell all the girls with Short hair to grow out their hair or they better just Shave it cus thats a disgrace to God....

[Levi19]

KrazyEuro, yes, we should read more than just one verse and try to understand a verse. Yes you find out what it means a little better. Furthermore, I only found one single verse out of the whole bible that seems to answer the question "should women really wear batics in church" according to your oppinion. Believe me I have searched, and if you found more, I am more than willing to discovere it for myself. On the other hand, I have found more than once verse to support my oppinion.
Bad example of the Nike Shoes. To God it matters not if your feet get dirty literly, and if God would want you to cover your feet, he would not point out Nike. I would matter however if you do show the symbol that you have higher authority above you for it also involves him, not just to keep your hair from getting dirty.

If the final verse sums it up, why does it sum it up differently than the whole rest of the chapter. Shouldn't a summary be a brief explanation of what the chapter says. Not to answer any question (and this I say because you stressed it as a summary) or to contradict what was said throught the rest of the chapter?

Why do you say that last part with such sarcasm. Why do you make it seem like that whole chapter should not be taken literly but metaphorically? Cause it says it in black and white, doesn't it mean that it is a disgrace for a guy to have long hair and a disgrace to have short hair. In a church that should be enforced but out in the world, people don't care to please God so you can't tell them to cut their hair.

[Ro_USA_Pride]

Krazy

hey BRO whats wrong with you BRO you keep saying that it says in the bible tht there is NO GOD you told me that in the oher thread too hey BRO what i would sugest is leave the bible the way it is dont start saying things that are not true. it specificaly says in the bible thatwomen should have their head coverd, and how can you even try to change what it says in the bible who are you to even think of that, yould defenatly stop gving advice to pple because your telling them wrong and your taking them on the wron path, and then GOD wil hold their blood against you because you have told them not to belive what it says in the bible. so my sugestion is to STOP it before GOD will punish you and im sure you don want that.
GOD BLess you and
Merry Christmas

[Romanican sweets]

I have a student bible which explains chapters and verses and abpout that quote from the bible it says, " In the Middle East, a woman who appeared in public barefaced, without a veil, showed loose morals. Some Muslim countries today still retain that custom. Paul's advice applied directly to the cultural situation in Corinth, where unruly women were disrupting the worship services." Hope that helps some. God Bless you

[Ceci]

SO ELI BY SAYING THAT THE HAIR IS THE COVERING OF THE LADIES HAIR.. THAT MEANS YOU GUYS SHOULD SHAVE YOUR HAIR OFF
1 CORINTHIANS 11:4
EVREY MAN PRAYING OR PROPHESYING HAVING HIS HEAD COVERED DISHONOURTH HIS HEAD.

yoUR SAYING THE HAIR IS THE COVERING FOR WOMANS HEAD WELL WOULDN'T THE HAIR BE THE COVERING FOR GUYS TOO? SOO THAT MEANS EVREY TIME YOU GUYS ARE PRAYING OR PROPHESYING YOUR HAVIN GYOUR HEAD COVERED <UNLESS YOUR BALD> YOUR DISHONOURTH YOUR HEAD.

[LigiaBalint]

all these guys are telling all these girls to cover their heads, personally, i think its none of your business, if their parents dont make them cover thier heads, then its obviously not your concern, you concern yourself about your own pole in your eye and stop concerning yourself about someone elses stick in their eye. and by the way, i totally disagree with what you guys are sayng about having to wear a batic, what you guys are saying is that if you dont wear a batic, God won't listen to your prayers, or if you don't wear a batic you'll go to Hell, or if you don't wear a batic, you dont have a relationship with God, which is it, personally, i dont wear a scarf, myparents dont make me and neither does my church, yet, i still have a relationship with God, my prayers are still answered, and I know im not going to Hell, considering I gave up my life to Jesus, so therefore,why does it matter if i wera a scarf or not, truthfully, i think it's all just plain culture, do you think that every american, since most of them dont wear scarves, will go to hell, i think not!!

and another thing, have many of these women who are missionaries or what not, given up their lives for God for nothing because they're not going to heaven just because they didnt wear a head covering?? ponder that!!

[SaintJoe69]

Hmmm... I'm sensing a disturbance in the Force... or at least a little fustration from Ligia's comments. :D

I think that "batic" was a symbolic thing back in those days, showing the public that a woman was either married or not married.

Correct me if I'm wrong, and I should probably look up some verses to back up my point, but I don't think they wore wedding bands/rings back in those days, did they? Did Joseph actually give Mary a wedding ring, to show that they were married? Although Adam and Eve were never officially married, did Eve wear a batic? NO, nor did she have a wedding ring on. She only wore a fig leaf, and don't tell me that's what you considered a "batic" back in that time. :D

If Adam and Eve never officially had a wedding ceremony, although God created Eve specifically for Adam, does that mean that they had sex BEFORE marriage? I guess that question could be thrown into that other thread tenazrael started regarding "SEX".

Back to my point... (hopefully, I won't have to pull out some verses and prove anyone wrong)... I think that the "batic" was a symoblic thing in those days. Today, we have what you call a "wedding ring". Both man and woman wear it, presuming they are married. The "batic" was more of a symbolic tradition which has, fortunately or unfortunately (depending on your views today), has been carried throughout some cultures. As you can see, not ALL cultures who believe in the bible practice the whole "batic" or covering of the head tradition.

So, is this satisfactory for an opinion, or should I pull out some verses to back up my statements?
:scratch:

[MaRK!]

i find it difficult to believe that one who serves Christ will be denied eternal life because of a head covering.
that's just me and im not one to judge but i surely dont jump to any negative conclusions when i see a female in church without her batic.

[keepindafaith]

Originally posted by LigiaBalint
all these guys are telling all these girls to cover their heads, personally, i think its none of your business, if their parents dont make them cover thier heads, then its obviously not your concern, you concern yourself about your own pole in your eye and stop concerning yourself about someone elses stick in their eye. and by the way, i totally disagree with what you guys are sayng about having to wear a batic, what you guys are saying is that if you dont wear a batic, God won't listen to your prayers, or if you don't wear a batic you'll go to Hell, or if you don't wear a batic, you dont have a relationship with God, which is it, personally, i dont wear a scarf, myparents dont make me and neither does my church, yet, i still have a relationship with God, my prayers are still answered, and I know im not going to Hell, considering I gave up my life to Jesus, so therefore,why does it matter if i wera a scarf or not, truthfully, i think it's all just plain culture, do you think that every american, since most of them dont wear scarves, will go to hell, i think not!!

and another thing, have many of these women who are missionaries or what not, given up their lives for God for nothing because they're not going to heaven just because they didnt wear a head covering?? ponder that!!



YOU GO GIRL!!!....wow I can just hear those words coming from Ligia, with such passion...it's like when I was reading her voice was in the back of my head...lol.....good stuff...God Bless...you.......and Ligia u took my word directly from my mouth....and I'm in the same situation ...my parents freidns church don't enforce it upon me......and just everything else u totally said.....well IT!!...God Bless u more!....te pup and MISS U TONS>...mwah and take care!

-rach

[Rominu]

fratilor care-i traba? Un lucru va sfatuiesc, cere-ti lumina si inteleptcunie de la D-zeu. Ca sa vedeti ce vrea sa spuna Apostolu Pavel catre corinteni. Dar un lucru vreau sa spun si eu. O femeii odat-a sa culcat dupa ce sa rugat cu batic. Dar dupa ce sa rugat a da baticu jos si sa culcat. Si in timpul noptii a venit la ea un om inbracat in alb, si a intrebat-o unde e baticu care la-i avut pe cap? si ea a mutit. Ingerul ea spus sti tu ca din pricina ingerilor tu trebuie sa porti un semn de stapinire pe cap. Si femeia a spus ca da stiu. Si apoi ingerul ii-a spus stica daca sar intimpla ce va rau acuma eu nu pot sa te scap de necaz findca nu ai semnul pe cap. si femei-a atunci a inteles ca trebuie sa poarta batic iin orce loc si in-orce timp. nu conteaza ca ii la scoala sau la lucru. deci fratilor hai sa inplinim cuvintul lui D-zeu. Femei-a trebuie sa poarta batic la timp si ne la timp.

[KrazyEuro]

rominu i apologize..i have no clue what you just wrote..my romanian is off...as far as everyone else...umm romo_usa_pride and ceci and whoever else disagree's with the fact that you dont need to wear batic in church...first off romo pride of the usa... read the bible...dont come into BIBLE DISCUSSIONS if you do not read the bible..just makes you looks a lil iffy...for in the bible it does say "fools say that there is no God"..did you know that there are religions out there that take that same verse..break it up to wear it says... "there is no God?" probably not..but now you do...anywho...ceci the bible says girls should have their heads covered right??? i agree...and guys shouldnt have their heads covered right?? explain this verse to me then...i mean its found in first corinthians in the same chapter that you people use to back up what you believe...1 corinthians chapter 11:13-16 "13. Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered? 14. Does not the very nature of things to you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, 15. but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? FOR LONG HAIR WAS GIVEN TO HER AS A COVERING. 16. If anyone wants to be contentoius about this, we have no other practice-nor do the churches of God."


take verse 15...15. but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? FOR LONG HAIR WAS GIVEN TO HER AS A COVERING.. now you guys says girls should cover her head?? cover means to cover as it also means a covering....hmmm interesting... so in this sense... LONG HAIR is used as a covering..now ceci..you said men shouldnt cover their heads..meaning...men shouldnt have LONG HAIR...if you guys want to take this literrally to today's age..thats all dandy..no one is saying its bad...that means.all the guys with long hair...sinning...all the girls with short hair..sinning...both are disgracing God's name...if you guys take that literally to today's age...do you have to wear batic to church? no...no where in the bible does it say put some kind of material over your heads...show me where it says that...and i'll start telling people batic is something that needs to be worn..however..the bible says dont do anything that causes someone to stumble in their faith...if you attend church that forces the wearing of batic's...by all means wear a batic...if you have other members stumbling in their faith cus they see you without a batic..thats a sin on you... then again i throw out a question...is their faith that weak..that something this small..will cause them to stumble and lose faith in Jesus Christ?? i hope not!! God Bless you all :)

[Andy]

fratilor care-i traba? Un lucru va sfatuiesc, cere-ti lumina si inteleptcunie de la D-zeu. Ca sa vedeti ce vrea sa spuna Apostolu Pavel catre corinteni. Dar un lucru vreau sa spun si eu. O femeii odat-a sa culcat dupa ce sa rugat cu batic. Dar dupa ce sa rugat a da baticu jos si sa culcat. Si in timpul noptii a venit la ea un om inbracat in alb, si a intrebat-o unde e baticu care la-i avut pe cap? si ea a mutit. Ingerul ea spus sti tu ca din pricina ingerilor tu trebuie sa porti un semn de stapinire pe cap. Si femeia a spus ca da stiu. Si apoi ingerul ii-a spus stica daca sar intimpla ce va rau acuma eu nu pot sa te scap de necaz findca nu ai semnul pe cap. si femei-a atunci a inteles ca trebuie sa poarta batic iin orce loc si in-orce timp. nu conteaza ca ii la scoala sau la lucru. deci fratilor hai sa inplinim cuvintul lui D-zeu. Femei-a trebuie sa poarta batic la timp si ne la timp.

what a coincidence, we're studying urban legends in sociology class. :D just kidding, hmm...I'd have to check your sources on that one.

[HomegirlHere]

WELL I REALLY DONT KNOW...IT DOES SAY IN THE BIBLE FOR WOMEN TO COVER THEIR HEADS..SO I GUESS YUH ITS PRETTY NECCESSARY TO WEAR A BATIC TO CHURCH..BUT UGH I HATE THOSE THINGS..THEY ANNOY THE HECK OUTTA ME! I MEAN DANGG JUST ASK US TEEN GURLS THAT HAVE TO WEAR EM AT CHURCH...IM PRETTY SURE NON OF US LIKES WEARING THEM!

[LigiaBalint]

Daang boys, can you understand TRADITION, it also says in the Bible not to wear your hair in braids, so now we cant wear braids, and what about all the guys that have long hair, are they all going to Hell too?? i dont know, but it sure sounds to me like you're condemning a good amount of people to Hell.

Also, Rominu, trust me, i have been saved many times from accidents or whatnot, in fact probably every day, there has been something that God has protected me from, and i never wear batics, at church or at school or at home, hmmm... I think its God that protects me, i know i couldnt protect myself from every bad thing that could happen so therefore it must be God, and oh my goodness gracious this is so frustrating

[KrazyEuro]

just tell me where im wrong with my opinions?? tell me if im misinterpreting the bible! and then read the chapter again..and tell me why in verse 15 when it says "HER LONG HAIR IS HER COVERING" doesnt really mean "HER LONG HAIR IS HER COVERING"? just tell me why thats wrong..thats all i wanna know..you guys like to impose batic's and what not..but the bible says LONG HAIR is the COVERING..why am i wrong?? im not saying that..the bible clearly says that!! why is that wrong?? tell me WHY?!?! its like you guys dont read what i write..you just see that i disagree and you guys dont read why...READ THE BIBLE!! why is that soo hard?? dang you guys are big time stubborn when it comes to "what you believe" and "what the bible really says"

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by mark_m
i find it difficult to believe that one who serves Christ will be denied eternal life because of a head covering.
that's just me and im not one to judge but i surely dont jump to any negative conclusions when i see a female in church without her batic.

I agree with mark on this one.

krazy, what translation/version are you reading, first of all? I think that people need to read the whole chapter in all of it's context, not just take a verse here and there and use it towards this debate. We are reading 1 COR 11:3-22 (King James), or you can read the whole thing if you wish.

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

Question: Why would this even be mentioned, regarding who is the "head" of whom? And then continue your reading.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6 For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7 For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Okay, if we just stop here for a moment, we have to ask ourselves if a "batic" or head covering is really the meaning here or not? In MY opinion, I think that based upon these few verses 3-7, that the head covering is NOT an actual covering "batic", but more of a symbolic one.

If a man prays with his head (Christ, as mentioned the verse before) covered, that is really not praying. It would be like the pharisees, who thought they were doing everything they needed to do right, but they were overlooking the important things.

I would continue with the symbolism, but I think that maybe this is enough for some to understand. If not, then reply and I will continue the debate. :D

The chapter continues as so:

8 For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9 Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11 Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12 For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

13 Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14 Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15 But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.

18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it.

19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

20 When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper.

21 For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.

The rest of this continues as read above. Basically, what I am trying to say is that I think it's firstly symbolic, and then maybe a tradition. If your church has "standards" and "traditions", then it would only be proper for you, with respect to your elders and your church, to comply with those "standards and traditions" when attending church.

Question for the females that currently use "batics": Do you use a covering when you pray on your own at home, or when you are at work, or at school, or anywhere else for that matter?
:scratch:
And if you say NO, then is that implying that you do not pray anywhere other than at church and at home? :sly:
Does God still hear your prayers if you have or do not have on a "batic"? OF COURSE HE DOES. :D

[MaRK!]

27for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

-Galatians 3:27-28

[SaintJoe69]

Um, is that a vote of yes or no for wearing a batic? :D

[brwnyeyes]

all these guys are telling all these girls to cover their heads, personally, i think its none of your business, if their parents dont make them cover thier heads, then its obviously not your concern, you concern yourself about your own pole in your eye and stop concerning yourself about someone elses stick in their eye. and by the way, i totally disagree with what you guys are sayng about having to wear a batic, what you guys are saying is that if you dont wear a batic, God won't listen to your prayers, or if you don't wear a batic you'll go to Hell, or if you don't wear a batic, you dont have a relationship with God, which is it, personally, i dont wear a scarf, myparents dont make me and neither does my church, yet, i still have a relationship with God, my prayers are still answered, and I know im not going to Hell, considering I gave up my life to Jesus, so therefore,why does it matter if i wera a scarf or not, truthfully, i think it's all just plain culture, do you think that every american, since most of them dont wear scarves, will go to hell, i think not!!

and another thing, have many of these women who are missionaries or what not, given up their lives for God for nothing because they're not going to heaven just because they didnt wear a head covering?? ponder that!!


__________________

AMEN sister! haha wow but personally i dont think its a yes or no thing every girl should do what she thinks is right according to ur customs when it to this "head covering" thing...

[MaRK!]

exactamento, brneyes.
galatians 3:28, i think...
we are ALL one in Christ. NO distinction between M or F.
i know females that are upstanding moral, ethical and spiritual examples we should all follow and OMG they dont wear batic!:eek: lol

[samus3johnv]

READ THIS!
WOW! First of all I do not really understand why it is so hard to wear a batic??? Does it make you uglier? You think that the guys in the church are not going to see your nice painted hair?? Or it might obscure you make up? Is it so bad to wear a batic?
Second, some of you said that Paul wrote this during their time and now we live in another culture and we have another set of ethics, but I ask myself: is it God’s fault that we changed our ethics? Does that mean that we have to update the Bible? May now the Bible should say that as long as you are not naked it’s fine!?; because already in our church so many sisters show their body in a way that is almost impossible to stay in the church. If I want to bring a friend to my church, somebody that does not know God, I can not bring him, because his attention will be distracted by the body forms of our sisters! Ok say we cancel baticul this year, say we update the bible and instead of covering their head the woman have just to cover the body parts in such a way that it will not be a source of temptation for anybody. How many of our sisters will follow that? You think they will give up “fustele mini”, or “bluzele decoltate” ? I do not think so! And where are we going to be in a few years?? What will be the minimum requirement? Wear bathing suit? May be!
Third, YES it is a sin for a guy to wear LONG HAIR. I can not believe that actually some people agree and allow our youth in our churches to have long hair. Our hair should be short!! The problem with this is that people think that Jesus had long hair. I never read this is the Bible! If any of you did please tell me where is it written! I personally think that Jesus had short hair.
Finally I just want to say that first time when I came in US, 4 years ago, and I saw some women in the church the way they were dress and without a scarf, I began to cry, and I cry and I asked myself how can God even look to this church? But I think that he looks for the few that follow the Bible. I prayed that God would change the hearts of women in our church. My mom and my sisters did not give up baticul even know they were the only one in the church that had it, and soon God answered our prayers. I a few months all other sisters were coming with batic, with the exception of two for which I still pray.
Do not forget that if everything goes well in your life, that does not mean you are God’s favorite. He might just as well let you “in pornirea inimii tale”.
Let’s try may be we can bring back the original set of ethics, so we do not have to change the Bible!

[MaRK!]

i'll even number this one to make it easy for you to dissect, analyze and retort.

1) it's certainly not a matter of ethics, as you stated at least twice. our ethics, and i mean "our" to include and encompass romanian pentecostals as a whole over time, have remained fundamentally constant over time. i won't outline these fundamental ethical rules that we have generally kept.

2) you must be one of the guys that gets a hard-on when he sees a girl's wrists, ankles, calves or upper chest. the modern dress is such that seeing the above mentioned 'unmentionables' does nothing for me. i see more skin in class every day than most ultra-conservative romanian males have seen under their covers on wedding night. therefore, girls wearing 'modern' attire to church is not a sexual stumbling block for me; it is "the norm," if you will.

3) if you say "the norm" is in itself unethical, why do you wear pants? yes, you, a male? pants? i don't believe anyone in biblical times wore pants. this is because pants, my friend, are a modern invention of man. a fashion 'update'. and YOU follow it! the only coherent argument is that "we should not follow fashion. we need to hold fast to our traditions, rules, ethics." this, however, is self-contradicting and of no essential value. the rule you form with the above remark is "we need to remain 20 years behind the fashion curve." i say this because the fact is that it is impossible to avoid conformity to society's normal dress and attire. if not now, you will eventually conform. this is not "wrong" or "sinful." today's fashion is not only about skin. there are many many options available to choose from. our responsibility is only to choose wisely, not to "not" choose at all.

4) i dont say the above mentioned retort to support or condone innapropriate dress at church. if one were to walk into an important business meeting dressed in the latest paris runway attire, the individual exampled would probably be fired.

5) our responsibility is to dress appropriately as defined by the acceptable conservative attire of our times. if you don't believe this you have absolutely no credible argument unless you wear a Jesus-robe every day. and since i guarantee you don't, this is not an argumentable point from your behalf. we cannot be a stumbling block; i say this only as a point to be used in a wise manner. there's always going to be a pervert in the church who cant hold one down when he sees some knee or upper arm or upper chest or lower neck. these individuals have a problem far greater than that of the said stumbling block. we are not responsible for this when we wear acceptable attire.

6) salvation does not lie in hair, hair length, or lack thereof. prove this one (and you won't be able to).

:)

[SaintJoe69]

First of all, brneyes, I've read that before... did you just paste and copy instead of using the quote thing? I think it was ema that wrote that.

Secondly, mark, I think that you are using that verse improperly. Paul is talking about becoming the body of Christ once you have accepted Christ.

Now, onto samus:

Originally posted by samus3johnv
READ THIS!
WOW! First of all I do not really understand why it is so hard to wear a batic??? Does it make you uglier? You think that the guys in the church are not going to see your nice painted hair?? Or it might obscure you make up? Is it so bad to wear a batic?

First of all, never question the fashion trend of a female. :D

Second, some of you said that Paul wrote this during their time and now we live in another culture and we have another set of ethics, but I ask myself: is it God’s fault that we changed our ethics? Does that mean that we have to update the Bible? May now the Bible should say that as long as you are not naked it’s fine!?; because already in our church so many sisters show their body in a way that is almost impossible to stay in the church. If I want to bring a friend to my church, somebody that does not know God, I can not bring him, because his attention will be distracted by the body forms of our sisters!

Does this mean that you are not paying attention in church because YOU are distracted by your sisters?! :scratch:
MAT 5:29 "If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown to hell." (NIV)

Ok say we cancel baticul this year, say we update the bible and instead of covering their head the woman have just to cover the body parts in such a way that it will not be a source of temptation for anybody. How many of our sisters will follow that? You think they will give up “fustele mini”, or “bluzele decoltate” ? I do not think so! And where are we going to be in a few years?? What will be the minimum requirement? Wear bathing suit? May be!

MAT 7:3 "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?"

Third, YES it is a sin for a guy to wear LONG HAIR. I can not believe that actually some people agree and allow our youth in our churches to have long hair. Our hair should be short!! The problem with this is that people think that Jesus had long hair. I never read this is the Bible! If any of you did please tell me where is it written! I personally think that Jesus had short hair.

Define "LONG" for me, and then I will define short for you. :D Your other statement is funny. People are not allowed to have their opinion regarding the length of Jesus' hair, but YOU are? God forbid! Everybody change their opinion to match YOURS alone!

Finally I just want to say that first time when I came in US, 4 years ago, and I saw some women in the church the way they were dress and without a scarf, I began to cry, and I cry and I asked myself how can God even look to this church? But I think that he looks for the few that follow the Bible. I prayed that God would change the hearts of women in our church. My mom and my sisters did not give up baticul even know they were the only one in the church that had it, and soon God answered our prayers. I a few months all other sisters were coming with batic, with the exception of two for which I still pray.
Do not forget that if everything goes well in your life, that does not mean you are God’s favorite. He might just as well let you “in pornirea inimii tale”.
Let’s try may be we can bring back the original set of ethics, so we do not have to change the Bible!

What "original set of ethics" are you refering to? Or should I even debate any more since mark already beat me to a lot of this?
:scratch: God Bless :thfro:

[KrazyEuro]

LOL...geeez...from the looks of things...romanians like to add their own lil twists in the bible..read what they want..i swear sometimes i think when people read John 3:16 they see "For God so Loved the world that he gave his only Begotten Son that the females who wears a batic and the guys who keeps their hair short would not parrish but have everlasting life" <~~ READ! i dont think the bible talks about that...i donno its just people these days are raised up one way..and they believe what people say and they live it...probably half of the people here who are in this lil debate never knew that there were scriptures in 1 corinthians about this...and apostle paul wrote this to THAT church because there order was false!!! they werent doing things the right way..they were doing it their OWN way..so apostle paul set some rules...just like fratele Niki's from P-town sets them..just like Fratele Gog from anaheim sets them just like Chi-Town pastors set them...they are Set by the pastors...doesnt mean that its right for everyone...Mark M i agree with you...SaintJoe nice lil come backs u made...why focus on how people look when deep inside their spirits are rottin in hell?? why not focus on that?? quit putting so much effort to try and get people to wear batic's and put more of an effort to try and bring people to Christ..and let the spirit talk to them...you think that the Spirit talks to only Romanians? thats how poeple sound it these days...show me an american church that wears batics...are they all going to hell cus they dont wear it?? just think a lil bit about things before you jump to conclusions...God is ALL knowing...and God is Love!!!

[Daniel M.]

Krazy euro ,one thing the americans used to wear batic and if u look in the past they really did, but the prob is that ppl push the anvelope and the pastors allow it in their church ,cuz if they dodnt ppl are going to leave the church and by that he has no income. It is not a romanian thing !!!!. God is love but HE can be a burning FIRE to.

[KrazyEuro]

i never knew God said "put a scarf over your head or i will burn you!" so at one time americans did wear them...great..now they dont...does that mean they are going to burn for it? and the pastors will too for allowing this to occur?? ..Daniel...read 1 corinthians 11:13-16...verses 1-12 talk about covering the head... please read those last 4 verses with an open mind...as if you never read the bible before as if you never heard of a batic before.. read it... and then come to a conclusion...

[samus3johnv]

I think some of you only read what you want to and you missed my point. I did not say that I was tempted by our sisters, but I was referring to bringing somebody that is not a Christian to church. You do not know what short means? I am sorry than. About Jesus having short hair, I took that from a Christian study that was made on the way Jesus leaved. And the study was saying that during his time men had short hair, and they were also talking about the dress and more. I do not say that we have dress up like them, or for women to wear the same dress like than, but I am saying that we should dress modest!!! But what I see in our churches is top fashion. Paul said that we should dress modest! Peter also says in 1Peter 3:3 “Podoaba voastra sa nu fie bodoaba de afara, care sta in impletitura parului, in purtarea de aur sau in imbracarea hainelor”. Think about this!
I do not judge anybody, all I try to do is explain, and you know may be some of you will never understand because you do not want to. It’s better to be like everybody else, like the world so nobody can realize that we are Christians, “s-ar putea sa ne fie rusine”. I do not say that if you do not wear batic you are not getting in haven, but do not forget it’s a race, and not every “Christian” will go in haven. It’s a race like Paul said. Success!
PS: “cei credinciosi in lucrurile mici vor fi credinciosi si in lucrurile mari” –it might be a small thing but it might actually matter. And finally is not all about batic, but about how much of the world are we going to allow to enter into our churches!

[Rominu]

Vreau sa va spun ce va Daca sunteti romini, vorborbiti romineste. Crazyeuro. Parul ii podoaba capului si ii invelitoarea capului dar nu ii seamn al stapaniri. in versetul 14 vorbeste apostolu pavel spune ca femeiaa sa nu se tunda de loc. dar in versetul 6 vorbeste ca femeia sa se in-velasca.

[KrazyEuro]

sorry rominu i dont understand what your saying..its not cus you dont make sense...but its cus i dont understand romanian all that great! lol...i still dont think its a sin if you dont wear a batic!! no where in the bible does it say cover your head with material stuff.. but it does say cover your head with HAIR!!

[emi2975]

lol yup yup with hair!!

[SaintJoe69]

Rominu,

I don't even know what you said, because I don't have the time to translate that small amount that you even wrote.

samus,

It's great that you are trying to explain yourself. It's the way you explained yourself. You made it appear as though your view was the only correct one, and that everyone else's opinion did not matter. I, even when I know I am incorrect, will still debate a point. There is nothing wrong with discussion and debate, so do not take this personally; however, if you think that your view is the only correct one, then why even bother?

I am sorry about the word "short". I do not know what it means unless I have a comparison. Are you short? I don't know. What or whom am I comparing you to? The word is only definitive if used as a comparison with another object. In fact, short can even be used in place of long.

Example: Is YOUR hair short? Well, they are not ALL the same length, so some are "shorter" than others. Is YOUR hair long? Well, they are not ALL the same length, so some are "longer" than others. So, does the bible define what is short and what is long? And does it compare somebody with short hair and somebody with long hair? NO, to both questions.

As for your friend who you want to bring to church. I am SURE that he has seen the same things OUTSIDE of church, so coming into church would be no different. I am hoping that you are bringing him to church to hear the message, not so that he could compare your sisters with other girls from outside of your church.

As for Paul when he said that "it's a race", I believe he just meant that it will not be easy, and that you have to try, which is true. Being a "christian" is NOT easy. Did Paul mean that we are all competing with each other? Did he mean that some christians will not make it into heaven because they don't try as hard, or that they are not "running" as fast? NO, I don't think so.

It's not about the world entering our churches as much as it is about the world entering our hearts and minds. We are the holy temple. The churches we gather at are only considered a house of God BECAUSE we come there to worship God.

God Bless, and continue debating, but remember that everyone is allowed their opinions, too. :D

[KrazyEuro]

amen..but with opinions..bring biblical proof..!!! as i did..and nobody seems to disprove me with my proof yet they still disagree... lol..hmmm thanks emily for agreeing lol

[SaintJoe69]

Um, what was your biblical proof, krazy? You said it didn't say it in the bible. That is NOT biblical proof. It does NOT state MANY things in the bible, that does not make it true.
:wall:

It does NOT state the theory of evolution in the bible, does that make it true? NO!

[KrazyEuro]

not but in 1 corinthians 11:13-16 says that Long hair is a womens coveriing..thats my proof :) not a batic like people like to impose!!

[SaintJoe69]

Yes, krazy, but what does that mean? Are we to take everything in the bible LITERALLY? If we are, then we should use only the ORIGINAL language of the bible, which I am not familiar with. All I have are these "translated" versions. Even the King James version is translated, so that we can supposedly better understand it. Take the following verses from the same chapter that you are using:

1 COR 3:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4 Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

If I am to take those bolded parts literally, I would say that verse 3:3 states that Christ is on top of your shoulders (your head) which is not true.
However, if I take it symbolically along with the next two verses 3:3-5, then "having his head covered" does not necessarily mean his hair, which people automatically assume. It could mean that he is praying "with Christ (his head) covered". If a person prays without Christ, basically they are not really praying in the name of Christ, right? So this would dishonor Christ.

The same goes for the woman, except her "head" would be her husband or man, since he is the "head of the woman". If she is not married, then her head, I believe would be the same as man's head, which would be Christ, also.

So, different people can read into this verse anything they want. There are some things that are to be taken literally, and then there are others that should be taken symbolically. You have to make a personal decision on which way you wish to interpret the verses and the rest of the bible, for that matter.

Remember this, and it's very important, that whatever version of the bible you are using, whether it's an English one, a Romanian one, a KJV, a NIV, or whatever... unless you are using the old original Arabic? bible, the version you are using was a translation. And through the translation, meaning could either have been lost or added into the bible. Words are changed for the better understanding of the culture or the society.
:wall:

[KrazyEuro]

i totally agree with you..my disagreement is that...no where in the bible does it say WEAR A MATERIAL OVER YOUR HEAD like many romanians impose..if you want to take the bible literrally...then women keep ur hair long and men cut your hair short...if you want to take it in the format it was written for...ask apostle paul what he meant by it...people can make their own assumptions..but dont go around telling people this and that and telling them its a sin if they dont do it their way...cus thats not cool....like i said in my previous posts..sometimes it seems that people take John 3:16 and read it as fallowing "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son that the females that wear batics and the men who keep their hair short will have everlasting life" --totally unbliblical..all im saying is the bible says the hair is the covering if you want to take it literrally...figurative..i believe its talking about God is our covering and without him we shouldnt preach...and like wise for women..we are over them like the bible says...i donno i could jump into this much deeper...but whats the point...romanians can be soo stubborn (i myself am a romanian so i know cus im stubborn too) lol

[SaintJoe69]

Hmmm... you "totally agree", but you have a "disagreement"? :scratch:
Would that be considered an oxymoron, or is there another terminology for it?

I want you to go into a deeper debate about it. I want to see what your views are. :D

[KrazyEuro]

the only reason there is a debate about this is cus you like debates...you call yourself "saint" joe and what not...and saints know the bible pretty good...lol...so im figuring if you know the bible..you know what that means..OR are you just implying what others might think and use that as your argument just to start a debate..however you can do what you want...i still hold to my verse 15 in that chapter...the chapter talks about covering of the head and what not..and then verse 15 gives a definition of what "covering of the head" really means..literrally or not...it doesnt mean to wear a batic! ;)

[SaintJoe69]

krazy, I am not sure what exactly you meant by the first several sentences, or what you were implying.
:D No offense taken, if any was meant.

This is not a thread that I started. So, I did not specifically choose a "side". I have stated, and will state again, for the records, that everyone is entitled to their opinions...

as long as it matches mine. :lol2: Just kidding.

No, you, along with everyone else, are entitled to your opinion. On the matter of this subject, I did not take sides. I pointed out scripture, and I said that people choose to take what they want out of the scriptures for their own purposes. I debated both sides, that yes, it could mean that you should wear a batic; however, I don't think you will go to hell if you don't. And then I debated the other side, that no, I don't think you need to wear a batic because it was meant to be symbolic.

I do believe that the choice is up to you. That's what free will is all about. Now, it doesn't say whether or not you're a male or female in your profile, so if you're a guy, it shouldn't matter to you. Not unless you like to be odd and wear a batic in your church. I am sure you get lots of strange looks wearing a batic if you are a guy. On the other hand, if you are debating the subject because you are a female, then it is YOUR free will to decide whether or not to wear a batic. I am not here to judge you, because that is not MY purpose. You need to determine whether or not, as a female, a conviction is felt within your heart depending on the choices that you DO make.

God Bless. :D I will defend both sides. :box:

[KrazyEuro]

no comment! only in for bashin i guess

[SaintJoe69]

:lol2:

Actually, that's all I could do, was laugh. Calm down. :lol2:

It's okay... everyone give krazy a group hug, because he refuses to wear his batic at church.
:D

[stinkinQT]

WHY ARE YOU BOYS SO WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THE GIRLS HAVE TO DO ANYWAYS? NOT THAT I AGREE WITH BATIC WEARING.. I SAY WEAR IT IF YOU FEEL THE NEED. I FOR ONE.. DONT FEEL I NEED TO. BUT HOW BOUT YOU LET THE GIRLS DECIDE IT..

[Andy]

About Jesus having short hair, I took that from a Christian study that was made on the way Jesus leaved. And the study was saying that during his time men had short hair, and they were also talking about the dress and more.

Jesus was of the Levite tribe, which, according to the Law, was to have all men leave their hair long.

[SaintJoe69]

WOO HOO! Andy's defending long hair. I think that should be in the long hair thread, too, Andy.
:D

PunkGurl, I am not concerned what girls/guys/others wear to/from/inside/outside church. Do you think I really care about something I don't personally use? As I stated, I will gladly defend both/either side(s). I am here to simply give my opinion on the batic, because we are ALL allowed to have an opinion.

I just wanted to defend a cause, :box: and I think I did it well, using Bible scripture.

[Nygel]

Originally posted by Andy
Jesus was of the Levite tribe, which, according to the Law, was to have all men leave their hair long.

yeah but I remember the Bishop saying once that Jesus was a rebel. I mean he didn't exactly follow...HE LED. He was a force of change. So maybe he cut his hair :scratch: and maybe he didn't :eek:

[Andy]

nov, that's a possibility! but remember Jesus wasn't a rebel without a cause. when He rebelled He did it because there was a change necessary to be brought about. who knows...

[st3lliano]

Originally posted by maria
If you were at all raised in a Romanian family, you wouldn't question it. Not wearing one is disrespecting God and yourself.


WHAT!!!! Thank Goodness you do not make too many postings. I have been raised in a Romanian family, but get this.....I was also raised in America. Romanian heritage has nothing to do with BATIC wearing in our churches. The fact that you mentioned heritage over Biblical evidences disproves the importance of the wearing a BATIC in the Bible. In FACT, you made the wearing of a BATiC an issue, one not focused on theology, but of tradition. We have all heard the argument, because in our churches its a directive which we live with, but for my sister to wear one because YOU ( and other close-minded individuals from our churches) say so does not make it NECESSARY. Just like most other things in the Bible, it is the PERSONAL motivation, reflection, intuition, and faith which should decide what we do in life. So to me it is a matter of choice that is INDIVIDUAL, not collective!!

[KrazyEuro]

saintjoe...as a christian..learn how to be more respectful to others rather trying to better yourself in attempts of puttings others down...

[SaintJoe69]

Hmmm... Ok, I'll try, but sometimes it's so hard not to make a sarcastic comment. I try to tell satan, "Get thee behind me satan, I will have nothing to do with thee." He usually does, and then he pushes me from behind. At least if satan is in front of me, I can keep him in my sights better.

:twak: Take that, satan! And again!

[SoulTattoo]

Just like most other things in the Bible, it is the PERSONAL motivation, reflection, intuition, and faith which should decide what we do in life. So to me it is a matter of choice that is INDIVIDUAL, not collective!!

I agree !!