Can U Drink..............

[barosanu]

i want to know if ur alowed to drink........ well i know that ur not allowed to drink if ur a cristion but what do u think guy does it say in the bible if ur alowed to drink.................................:confused: :rolleyes: :( :wall:


i think that in the bible it says can eny one find out or does God say enything about it ..................

[WiNDOWLiCKER]

PEOPLE DRANK IN THE BIBLE...EVEN JESUS DID. I DUNNO WHERE EXACTLY IT STATES IT BUT ITS THERE. THOSE THAT ABUSE IT THINK THAT SINCE JESUS DID, ITS OKAY TO GO OFF AND GET PISS DRUNK. NOT TRUE.

JESUS DIDNT GET DRUNK, HE DRANK, AS TO ENHANCE HIS MEAL OR WHATEVER. I DUNNO I STILL THINK DRINKING IS CONSSIDERED A SIN ONLY WHEN DRANK IN LARGGE AMOUNT TO THE POINT WHERE GETTING DRUNK IS YOUR REASONS BEHIND TEH ACT.

[password]

it's not a sin to drink....it's a sin to get drunk. anything that alters your thinking and your judgment is a sin. one glass of wine wont alter your judgement. romanians love making up thier own rules and then saying it's a sin if you do that.

[NeXuS_21]

drinking IS A SIN....It's NOT ok even to drink a glass...it says in the Bible that we shouldn't drink 'bauturi tari' ...Jesus didn't eighter....he probably had 'must'

[WiNDOWLiCKER]

OKAY....DIDNT HE DRINK [NOT TO BE MISTAKEN WITH "GETTING DRUNK"] WINE OR SOMETHING WHILE FEASTING?? I THINK YES :)

[tenazrael]

Hold on people.... this is a very sensitive topic.... for all those of you who are immature and want to a reason to drink so you can get drunk or cause you think it makes you look cool... then its wrong!!!! Another problem with drinking is that when you start, if you keep drinking you won't realize your drunk until its too late! Its a feeling that grows stronger on you but its not obvious at first. My opinion on whether or not it is right to drink is dependant first upon your heart. Many people say that wine is bad! Thats like saying a kitchen knife is bad cause it kills people, but we all know a kitchen knife is not bad unless a bad person uses it in a bad way. Same thing with wine or any alchoholic drink. Its not the drink thats bad but the way you use it. If you drink it to show off.. its bad, if you drink it to escape the worries of this world.... its bad, if you drink it for any reason besides to enjoy its taste, then its bad! Its all dependant upon what is in your heart. And if you want to know how to tell whether what your heart tells is right or not, thats what the Bible is for.

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by NØR CAL
OKAY....DIDNT HE DRINK [NOT TO BE MISTAKEN WITH "GETTING DRUNK"] WINE OR SOMETHING WHILE FEASTING?? I THINK YES :)

Well the Bible didn't state their that Jesus drank wine.... it only states that he turned water into wine! Ah I gotta go read up on my scriptures and find out!

[white]

I don't agree with alcohol drinking, maybe I saw too many people and families destroyed and too many sad kinds because of it, to accept any compromise in its direction. May not be a sin but it is always the first glass that opens a jurney to sin; it is a step of compromise and all that is missing is the right or the wrong circumstance to go further. It's just a step that may not take us to Heal, but being a step towards sin it is also a step away from God. Those who are strong, and know they can control themselves( not to pass the grey/black boundary), can confidently walk as far as they wish, as for myself, knowing I'm far from being strong, prefer to remain in the white area, and to walk towards God ruther then away.

[box]

It is better to avoid alcohol for many reasons such as spiritual, physical, emotional, Biblical... Name one positive thing that comes out of drinking; I can't think of any either (Besides the overly exagerated medical benifits of drinking wine... take grape seed extracts instead). Now we all know it contains Ethanol- well guess what, one finds the same organic compound in gasoline and a whole bunch of other toxic chemicals. Yuck- that stuff is not for me.

[WiNDOWLiCKER]

IM NOT FOR SURE WHAT IS SAYS IN THE BIBLE BUT I KNOW SOMEWHERE IN TEHER IT STATES SOMETHING ABOUT JESUS DRINKING AT SOME FEAST. SORRY I DONT READ TEH BIBLE MUCH SO I CANT GIVE OUT GUYS EXACT VERSES OR WHATEVER. BUT EITHER I DONT AGREE MUCH ON THE WHOLE DRINKING THING JUST CUZ THERES SUCH A FINE LINE BETWEEN WHATS RIGHT AND WRONG. I AGREE YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST AVOID THE WHOLE THING THEN RATHER TO HAVE ARGUMENTS OVER THE TOPIC. =)

[box]

Originally posted by NØR CAL
I AGREE YOU MIGHT AS WELL JUST AVOID THE WHOLE THING THEN RATHER TO HAVE ARGUMENTS OVER THE TOPIC. =)


Hey- there is nothing wrong with good, kind worded debating. Debating is a great way of solving problems... look at the facts and decide what you'll do- all of life is like this.

[WiNDOWLiCKER]

HAHA I DIDNT MEAN IT IN THAT SENSE, I WAS MEANING ARGUMENST BETWEEN FAMILY MEMBERS OR SOMETHING OF THAT SORT. I MEAN PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS GIVE YOU REASONS TO CHANGE TCERTAIN HINGS ABOUT YOURSELF ONLY BECAUSE THEY LOVE YOU.

ANWAYS...I LOVE DEBATES...THEY KINDA JUST OPEN YOUR EYES TO THINGS YOU DONT REALIZE YOURSELF :)

[cosmin]

--
nr. 1 for the 'jesus drank wine crowd':

Matthew 27:34
There they offered Jesus wine to drink, mixed with gall; but after tasting it, he refused to drink it.

Mark 15:23
Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it.

Luke 1:15
for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.

nr.2 ... now to the 'is wine / drink a sin' crowd:


Ephesians 5:18
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

Revelation 17:2
With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries."

nr.3 .. to the crowd that says, 'well it DOES say in the Bible that wine/drink is allowed' (someone showed me this actually last sunday while studying the Bible..)

1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

... i doubt anyone who drinks wine drinks it as medicine! :) ... another thing to keep in mind is during Bible times, they didnt have EVAIN water at the local 7eleven. Wine is one of the only healthy liquid to drink. The Romans were one of the first ones during Jesus's time to actually have 'aquaducts' that brought drinkable water into their city. until then unless you lived in the country, drinkable water could not be found. it was a 'staple' drink with food.

i'll stick to my Diet Pepsi and EVIAN water, to avoid sin. hope this is fairly clear.

[SteliP]

Drinking (alcohol) was always a important subject for some people and less important for others, but I think that if it appears in the bible it's something that we don't need to be afraid to talk about. Knowing how to use the sword (bible) when you need it, it's always important. And Jesus used it every time He wanted to explain or show people how to develop a strong personality and to be moral, having the character of Christ build up in his disciples.

As you can see in the following examples the word "drink" or "drinking" is commonly used, and it can work for us or against us depending the way we understand it. Also the word "HOW"is often found in our guide (bible).

how...do you live,
how...do you pray,
how...to be a real christian,
how...to love,
how...to drink, etc.

And going straight to the subject, some of the bible people decided not to drink at all:

1 Samuel 1:15
"Not so, my lord," Hannah replied, "I am a woman who is deeply troubled. I have not been drinking wine or beer; I was pouring out my soul to the LORD .




In Jesus's time people were saying about His disciples that they are drinking; even about Him, as you can see in the following verses:

Matthew 11:18
For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.'

Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

Luke 5:33
They said to him, "John's disciples often fast and pray, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours go on eating and drinking."

Luke 7:33
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine, and you say, 'He has a demon.'

Luke 7:34
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and you say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." '




Perhaps you might say: "but it doesn't say exactly that Jesus drank wine, or the disciples drank wine"...well, when it talks about the end of the times, that it will be just like in the days of Noah and days of Lot, it only says "drink" not "drinking wine" but we all know that they were "drinking alchool and commiting sexual imoralities", that is why God was so mad at them and destroy them. Here ar some bible verses:

Matthew 24:38
For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;

Luke 17:27
People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

Luke 17:28
"It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building.




As a conclusion I can say (and it's just my personal opinion), that if you drink a cup of wine along with your "greasy romanian food... :) sarmale, slanina (bacon)...it will do good to help you digest all those goodies, as you can see in the next verse (that people often are arguing about),...: :twak:

1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.




When we get together as christians, drinking is not a way to have fun, nor of helping you in any way in your depressions or excited moments!

Romans 14:17
For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit,


Ephesians 5
18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

Isaiah 5:22
Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks.


GOD BLESS YOU!!! AND LET HIM TO BE YOUR JOY OR YOUR NEED WHEN YOU WANT TO FILL UP AN EMPTY MOMENT IN YOUR LIFE!

...with love Steli Pand

[cosmin]

--
very well said Steli :clap1:

[swtlips]

if it distracts you from being a christian, then i don't think you should do it...unless you are capable and responsible to watch you actions, it's your choice...God is #1.

[sweetncharming]

well done Steli; good points and good examples.

[Pianogirl]

Well done My Husband Steli. :clap1: I'm so glad you see both sides of the issue. I agree with everything you said. May God Bless You and all the people reading this thread so that they can make an informed decision.:clap1:

[Lorena12]

the Bible saids that we should not do what the world does. if the world drinks, we should not. Yes it is a sin. Years ago people did not have these disscusions. they were closer to God and followed his rules. they knew what a sin was, and they did not question God. NOw we are getting more and more away from him. we have so many questions. if we look in the Bible and interpret it correctly, then we have the answer. GBU

[cosmin]

Originally posted by sonialorena12
the Bible saids that we should not do what the world does. if the world drinks, we should not. Yes it is a sin. Years ago people did not have these disscusions. they were closer to God and followed his rules. they knew what a sin was, and they did not question God. NOw we are getting more and more away from him. we have so many questions. if we look in the Bible and interpret it correctly, then we have the answer. GBU --
i applaud your values. :clap1:

please make sure though that your convictions are rooted in God's word and you are able to back them up with extreme passion, since these days we as youth are exposed to so many ideas and concepts that are against God's word, and our society makes them acceptable. therefore, youth begin to question what is sin.

there is nothing wrong to think and to seek the truth. as Christians if we let God lead our thoughts, then many questions will be answered from God's word.

only if we know God's word and not what we have learned from our surroundings will we be able to stay strong.

:bow:

[Lorena12]

TRUE. this thim is very hard

[WiNDOWLiCKER]

LIEK I SAID...I DONT READ TEH BIBLE MUCH BUT THANKS FOR THE BIBLE REFERENCES AND VERSES!! GOD BLESS!! MUAHH! :)

[Steve18]

Cosmin, this is for you. The scripture you quoted earlier, i think, is out of context. here's what you wrote, and what i think this mean:
Matthew 27:34
There they offered Jesus wine to drink, mixed with gall; but after tasting it, he refused to drink it.
- This was a prophesy, and Jesus was supposed to refuse it.

Mark 15:23
Then they offered him wine mixed with myrrh, but he did not take it.
- this one is the same as matthew 27:34. We all know that matthew, john, luke, and mark are the same story.

Luke 1:15
for he will be great in the sight of the Lord. He is never to take wine or other fermented drink, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit even from birth.
- This quote is for John the baptist. It talks about how it was God's will for him not do drink wine or any alcohol. But i believe this was only for him,
because he was the last prophet. The bible says that, and i'm pretty sure about this, that none of the profets were allowed to drink alcohol or eat pork.
So, again, i think this is out of context.

Ephesians 5:18
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.
- This quote is true in the literal sense, but it says "do not get DRUNK." It never says, dont drink.

Revelation 17:2
With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries."
- I'm not sure about this one, but i think its being used as a methaphor for a nation that will commit those things. BUt i dunno exactly, so i cant argue that.

1 Timothy 5:23
Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.
- I agree with you on this quote cosmin. no argument here. But i will say that plenty of times has it been proven that wine is healthy to be drank, if drank
in the correct amounts. And you're right for the most part when sayin that people dont drink it as a medicine, yet i believe there are people
that use wine for its medical benefits. For example, my dad makes wine and drinks it for medical purposes. So, i see nothing wrong with that.

I hope i didn't offend you cosmin, i just wanted to straighten things up, at least the way that i see them.

[ema gabriela]

WOW I APPLAUD YOU ALL FOR YOUR SCRIPTURES BACKING YOU GUYS UP. ITS NICE TO SEE ACTUAL FACTS INSTEAD OF JUST OPINIONS. GOOD JOB!!

[cosmin]

--
steve .. i applaud your detail! :clap1:

Matthew 27:34, Mark 15:23 ... i used it to note that Jesus DID NOT DRINK, that was the context. if it was a prophesy or not, he did not 'drink'. correct?

Ephesians 5:18... it clearly states 'do not get drunk ON WINE'

Luke 1:15 ... that is true.. great job! :)

1 Timothy 5:23 ... this is a verse that the 'pro-alchohol club' will use exclusively. however, it is clearly used for medicinal purposes.

I remember my grandma bringing this black stuff in a bottle from Romania back when i was a kid and she placed it high in the closet. i asked what it was, and she said, 'it is when you REALLY are sick'... of course when i got really sick (fever), she gave me a 'teaspoon' of that stuff and man did it burn my throat, and it also made me healthy really quick :D ... later i found out it was 'tziuca', and as a public disclaimer, i didnt have more than a teaspoon ever again in my lifetime! :D

the idea here is, alcohol (wine, beer, liqour, etc.) 99.9% of the time is used for anything but medicinal purposes, the original question was 'can you drink'? ... bottom line is, i want to follow Christ. no more questions asked.

Steve, great job. and of course i didnt get offended, when we respect each other and use the Bible to debate, that is awesome! :)

[barosanu]

hey guys la the nunta cind domnu a spus sa aduca vase si se le umple cu apa dont u guys think that he drank nothing his mom asked him to do something about that and he did so i think that its ok in a way "he made wine so its not ok to drink it"
comon thats got to be democracy,../,//,,.romanian rule made up for some dome reason...................

[barosanu]

one pastor said once that u dont go to hell for drinking a beer u go to hell if u get adicted to it ..............

[RoseBud]

yup. I agree....

[Liz]

You go to hell if you reject Jesus Christ as your personal savior, not for any of your actions. once you accept Christ, truely, your actions will reflect that...

[barosanu]

so liz what ur trying to say is that it doesent matter if u smoke drink or not ull pay later

so u can drink..........

[KrazyEuro]

good points guys...if you read in 1 corinthians..i actually forgot what chapter it says..but it goes something like this.."if your drinking causes someone to stumble, dont drink around them, make sure you drink between you and God" i dont think its a sin cus the bible never says it is...lets say i think drinking is bad.. and lets say cosmin drinks alcohol but not to get drunk..and say he drinks it in front of me...and i say hey man thats not cool thats wrong....if cosmin still decides to drink in front of me from that day forward..its a sin..cus he's causing me to look at another christian and say geez and he calls himself a christian? however the bible says dont get drunk...who here knows where his limits are with drinking before they get drunk?? nobody does..or nobody did..there is no way to know how much you can drink before getting drunk..unless you drank til you got drunk and then said ok thats my limits...as christians...why are we gonna go to the limit??? why are we gonna see how far we can go to the edge of the cliff before we loose our footing and fall??? we should keep away from falling in all things..if we know that theres a possible falling into sin type of situation...why go there?? keep away from it...and steve...yah you know maybe the scriptures were meant for JESUS at that time..maybe they wanted Jesus to be clean cus he was the last prophet like you say...but doesnt the bible say to BE JUST LIKE JESUS?? FALLOW HIS HEART?? are you saying that only Jesus could be perfect so we shouldnt even try?? no the bible says BE LIKE JESUS! yah i know we cant..but does that make it right to say well that was meant for Jesus only and not for us...drinking impairs your judgement...how can a christian be the light if he cant even think straight?

[barosanu]

i understand what ur trying to say KrazyEuro
so its sordaf ok but we should stay away from it as far as possible............

hey man KrazyEuro the bible talks about drinking only in the negative way i think every where so why drink if we know that its bad and also if ur church is against it ..........

[cosmin]

--
good example KrazyEuro...

for the public record though.. KrazyEuro used an fictional illustration.. i do not drink alcohol ... :wall: :D

[Steve18]

krazyEuro, i see your point on "Be like Jesus." But that scripture i talked about was prophesy. It was written in scripture that Jesus would refuse the wine. If dont think your "be like Jesus" would go in that sense. Jesus refused the wine that time, but that doesn't mean he NEVER drank wine. Or that we should never drink either. Its like saying, because Jesus never got married, or that he was never a lawyer, that we should never do those things either in order to "be like Jesus." See what i mean? Its all upon your relationship with God and I believe he has different intentions for all of us. He might call upon you to not drink, yet someone like me might not ever be convicted of such a thing.

[HomegirlHere]

ummmmm drinking iz a totallll sin! duh! i mean danggg it screws u up and causes u to do things u wouldnt normally do. u would prob sin more when u drink. its totally wrong to drink i mean dangg if anyone drinks they totally arent christian and may God help them to never do it again!

[meesh]

haha..this is a great thread.

umm......it is kinda funny to me that cosmin put up a verse as plain as day and yet people still refuse to see it.......

where was that verse cosmin.....that Jesus was to never drink anything fermented? somwhere in luke it was...

anyway......i think we all need to study our Bibles more and not just the bibles but using the concordances to see the real words of the original writings and their meanings.

the word "wine" was used in the bible with 2 meanings.....both for fermented and unfermented stuff.

fermentation in the bible stands for the presence of sin. if any of you take part in "cina" or "the last supper" then you know that the bread is supposed to be made without yeast---meaning without fermentation....and the wine....is really grape juice. again, without fermentation. the bread signified his body......he was sinless.....so the bread must not have yeast in it (yeast=sin) and the grape juice signified his precious blood.......also innocently shed......no fermentation....no sin. Jesus never drank FERMENTED wine.......he drank grape juice.

and as for what paul told timothy.......it was grape juice...not fermented wine. cause fermented wine does NOT help your stomach....but it eats away at the lining....then causes liver damage......and worst of alll.....brain damage.

NOTE: VERY IMPORTANT!!!! ANY AMOUNT OF ALCOHOL PRESENT WILL DESTROY BRAIN CELLS!!!!!
and i know some of you are going to say that we dont even use like 85% of our brains....which i dont doubt....but the alcohol attacks the frontal lobe....the part that you DO USE.......this is the place where the HOLY SPIRIT lives........where you have the ability to decided between right and wrong. when you got alcohol shutting off one cell at a time......there goes you ability to make good decisions.

now.....if you dont have a relationship with God, you may not care about making the right decisions and staying within God's will....but if you DO HAVE a relationship with God.....i am sure that you'll want to keep your AVENUES CLEAR....so that the Holy Spirit can talk to you and lead you into the right direction.

by the way.....the medicinal purposes some people think that fermented wine has......is found in grapes. grapes have antibiotical properties. grape juice is a more concentrated form, therefore more "antibodies" found. just like the other person said........just cause you find a certain something your body needs in an object doesnt mean you have to use it......like they mentioned gas....lol.......:twak:

anyway...this is getting long as it is........God never wanted us to take part in anything that would destroy any bit of our body....not even a cell. check out the diet given to adam and eve in the garden of eden. genesis 1....last 3 verses or so. TOTAL VEGETARIANISM. actually they were vegan....cause they didnt eat eggs or drink milk or stuff like that. and heaven is supposed to be that way too.......cause it says that noone will kill on my holy mountain( that includes the animals.)and here we are, not even close to the where we need to be....and we still be bickering over some wine....and sometimes food. man......dont we see that "PUTTING SOMETHING IN OUR STOMACH" was the thing that messed up adam and eve and got them to sin?

[Jeniffer]

Nice banateanca. Those words are soooo true. The Holy Spirit will guide you in everything you do.
Just remember: Sin is like a snake.....when it bites, it bites hard and it hurts.

Once we come to the Lord, our ways of thinking about what the "world" does, will change. (If the world smokes, and drinks, we shouldn't)

"Many hear the gospel, but few believe"

The bible is meant to be read in between the lines.....if it just told us everything straight forward, life would be too easy.

[cammie25]

i think you r allowed to drink but not to get drunk. jesus did drink wine in the bible... " nunta din cana" or something like that... he turned water into wine... for a wedding. if he thought it was wrong to drink he wouldnt of done that... cuz Jesus is sinless... so if drinking a lil wine was a sin then Jesus commited a sin rite? well so then it isnt a sin... its a sin to get drunk cuz u can hurt ppl and make fun of God while ur drunk if ur not careful... but its medically proven that if u have a glass of wine a day (not a pitcher) its actually healthy for u... maybe have a glass every two days... this is 8 oz not 2 liters....

this is wine im talking about... beer is out of the question. beer is bad for u and thats the bottom line.... theres nothing good (health wize) about it... plus wine is from grapes... beer is from rotting yeast and other things.... sum beers r made by rotting worms... and this is something a teacher told me....

so a lil wine is ok but thats about the only liquor thats good for u... but of course with any alcoholic drink... be responsible....

thats what i gotta say... and if im wrong then my bad and i hope God can show me whats trullyl rite about this whole drinking thing... cuz this is one of the biggest contraversal issues...ba-bye and God Bless Ya guys

~cammie~

[Moe]

hey can u show me where in the bible it sais that god drank wine cammie25 ...................it only sais that he turned water into wine but it does'nt say that he drank nothing ..we just sume that he did...also where do u think wine comes from ROTTEN GRAPES..........
also for this"plus wine is from grapes... beer is from rotting yeast and other things.... sum beers r made by rotting worms... and this is something a teacher told me...." this is tuica that comes from rotten worms........... the bible has only negative intentions from drinking..................

"if u see some where in the bible that it says that god drank tell me or show me pls"

[cammie25]

well im not sure about him drinking any but like i said earlier "if he thought it was wrong to drink he wouldnt of done that... cuz Jesus is sinless... so if drinking a lil wine was a sin then Jesus commited a sin rite? well so then it isnt a sin" this of course is my interpretation of it... if im wrong my bad... k?

this thread is about getting drunk... im not saying its ok to get drunk... im just saying its ok to responsibly drink wine... RESPONSIBLY... all other alcoholic beverages are bad...wine is actually ok for u with a limit attached to it...

again like i said earlier i was only talking about wine, i wasnt sayin that alcohole is good for u... i was only talking about one type of beverage out of millions...

[whoRu]

In America, if you are under the age of 21 and drink, it is against the law. In Romans 13, the bible speaks of submission to governing authorities. If you are under the age of 21 and drink, it is a Sin. If you have been taught to not drink alcohol, and feel convicted when you do drink, consider it a sin. If you get drunk from drinking too much alcohol, consider it a sin. The bible teaches us to walk in the spirit, and when you are drunk and can no longer control your senses, you are no longer walking in the Spirit.

1Corinthians 6:10- It lists those who will NOT inherit the Kingdom of God...fornicators, idolators, adulterers, thieves, DRUNKARDS.
Proverbs 20:1-"Wine is a mocker, strong drinking is raging; whoever is deceived thereby is not wise."
Titus 2:11-12- the bible teaches us to deny ungodliness and wordly lusts, live SOBERLY, righteously, and godly in this present world.


If you are doing it because of peer pressure, you are conforming.. Romans 12 teaches us to not conform to the pattern of this world.

IF YOU ARE OVER THE AGE OF 21, and are not pressured into drinking, and do not feel convicted, and do not get drunk, and are not causing anyone to stumble, but drink only because of the taste and perhaps for medical purposes, it is NOT a sin.... However, why set yourself up for being in the position to get drunk, and walk outside the spirit?

[CanaryGood]

sure you can drink! totul e ingaduit dar nu totul e de folos! everyone decides according to their own heart. it may be bad for some people to drink but not for others. tenazrael had a great point on the first page about the knife!

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by AngelofFreedom21
drinking IS A SIN....It's NOT ok even to drink a glass...it says in the Bible that we shouldn't drink 'bauturi tari' ...Jesus didn't eighter....he probably had 'must'

I like the quotes that you guys found in the bible, Cosmin... but didn't you guys forget some?

Here are some quotes where there is a comparison of John the baptist and Jesus, the son of God (referred to as man, in the passage) if I'm not mistaken...

LK 7:33 For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. 34 The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

And here is Jesus, Himself, at the last supper, stating that He had drank previously, and will no longer drink...

MK 14:25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

MT 26:29 But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

So, it it my belief that Jesus did in fact drink, but He did not abuse it and get drunk.

Besides, don't you guys, as Romanians, have a custom of drinking "cina" (the Lord's supper) on the first Sunday of each month? Or is that strictly a baptist thing?

:scratch:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by Jeniffer
The bible is meant to be read in between the lines.....if it just told us everything straight forward, life would be too easy.

That's odd... it would appear that the reason people question things IS because they DO read in between the lines, and they try to interpret everything the bible says in order for them to do whatever it is they WANT to do. I think the bible DOES tell us things straight forward, but few actually understand it that way or choose to believe it that way.

Jesus always told the disciples what to do, but He spoke to them in parables. The same as when He spoke to Nicodemus. Why?

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

Sometimes, we simply don't want to hear the truth, so we interpret something that is said in the bible our own way, by "reading between the lines." We tip the balance in our favor, so to speak, for our own benefits.

God gave us commands and rules to follow, yet we choose to still question them so that we can get around them.

I'm sure you've heard the saying, "Do as I say, not as I do."

Back then, I'm sure Jesus told them to "Do as I say, and aslo as I do." or something like that... therefore, be LIKE Christ.

I think that made sense... at least to me, it did. :scratch:

[meesh]

haha...joe....good point.

i believe what Jesus meant about not drinking again till everybody gets to heaven is just saying that he wont drink the "wine" while here on earth anymore.

the word "wine" is used in two senses.......both for fermented and un fermented grape juice. if you study to see how the traditions were for the passover....you will see that both the bread and the drink were to be unfermented, sybolizing that it is without sin. the more you'll read of the Bible, the more you will see that is the meaning. this is the practice that they did. Jesus was symbolized thru the bread and the "wine" both unfermented because JESUS WAS WITHOUT SIN.

as far as i know, penticostals and baptists and adventists all keep the last supper and i dont know of any of them that use anything else than grape juice and the specific bread that is without yeast. and i think all three still do the actual footwashing too. i know the penti's and adventi's do......dont know about the baptists tho, i have never been to a "cina" service at the baptist church before.

any bit of alcohol eats away at the lining of the stomach. we can forget the damage to the brain and to the liver and kidneys. this is proof that paul didnt tell timothy to drink fermented wine but actually just grape juice. grapes have anti-biotical properties. and by the way.....wine hasnt changed too much since those days.....it still ferments just the same. anyway...any alcohol.....including and especially in vinegar, eats away at the lining of the stomach. medically proven. forget medically proven......it is common sense.

if a can of coke or pepsi can eat a steak in like 24-48 hours........what do you think that stuff does to our stomach? and that stuff is no where near as bad as the alcohol.

either way.....each to what they are convicted. this is just my opinion/conviction from what i've studied and where the Holy Spirit has led me.

[SaintJoe69]

Wow! Really? Man, no, the baptists don't do any feet washing at our church. Maybe they started this year, because I missed cina this month, but they have never done it in the past. Hmmm... that would be very interesting to watch at church. Who washes whose feet, exactly at your service? And how is that performed?

See? I learn something new each day. :D

[Andy]

feet washing and the Lord's supper are interesting subjects to discuss, but let's please stay on topic while on this thread. feel free to open up another thread though! thanks...

[tenazrael]

yeah us baptists use wine at cina..... not the fake grape juice stuff... but remember that just cause Christ drank unfermented wine at the passover, doesn't mean that he always drank unfermented wine all the time.... and the physical properties of achohol isn't so bad as to destroy the lining of the stomach instantly.... lots of foods do that to us, so we can't just cancel out all foods that hurt our stomaches and give us indigestion and so on (im in a hurry so try and stick with me) so um anyway just read what that steli pand guy said on page 1 cause well i think he basically answered everyones question! ah man ill leave a better post later....! gotta go!

ps. nope no foot washing at our church during cina!!!!

[Archangel]

man...I got nothing to say...I like all of yall's views... this is a well debated subject ...and though to some ofensive, it is clear that drinking is not a sin...but overdoing it is...as many other things of such natures...

to each his/her own...! God Bless Y'all...!

[61leumas]

depends on the reason for drinking...is it communion is it party time...is it to forget your worrys...the second two aren't good the first is, but i wouldn't mind a little something on the honey moon....
btw archangel nice picture...weak gun..

[Archangel]

...hehe...not really leumas... it's a 30-6...pop 1/4'' exit wound 3-4'' it was the standard SS training weapon...then we moved to the M40A2...now that is a sweetie...but that pic was deleted by the mods. and the M80A2 Anti-Armor...

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by Andy
feet washing and the Lord's supper are interesting subjects to discuss, but let's please stay on topic while on this thread. feel free to open up another thread though! thanks...

Hey Andy,

Feet washing goes perfectly along with this thread. Maybe I was going to ask whether they make fresh wine at the services by stomping grapes right after the washing of the feet. Gee, like I said, I've never been to a service where they washed feet and had cina at the same time.

So, do you wash your own feet or somebody else's feet before stomping on those grapes to make that unfermented juice? Well, actually, if you DON'T wash your feet, that juice might as well be fermented, in a bad way. :screwy:

If that were the case, it would definitely be an incentive for me NOT to drink.

[meesh]

haha joe....you crack me up. on the first of the month you should go to a penti church and see how it is done. the adventists i think only do their last supper every 3 months. there are some christians churches out there that do that every week. but whatever the case, go to one. what usually happens is that guys separate from the girls into two separate rooms. and you pick a partner. and you wash that partners feet, then the partner washes your feet and then you both pray together and hugg (cause it is supposed to be a symbol of humbleness toward one another.) then you go wash your hands and rejoin the church. some churches have the footwashing at the end of the service and then you just go home or go to someone's house to eat.

and you dont really "wash" the feet....like you dont use soap and stuff. you just kinda dunk each foot and then dry it. water, and pan, and towels all provided.

sorry andy...i know i started this thread and i am the one that got off topic......but like joe.....im in a hurry too.....i gotta package to deliver and i gotta get going, but i had to answer to this....

God bless!!!!

[Alin2A05]

Ok...Jeses drank wine, it says it in the bible, but it was unfermented. Non-alcoholic. In the bible, Jesus says it is a sin to even look at wine being poured into a cup and see the bubbles, that form. So, you decide if it is a sin or not. Does it make u feel guilty? If so.... Exactly :)

[SaintJoe69]

Hey, Iacob, when is your next wine tasting service? Sorry, Andy.

I mean, when is the next time you have cina, so that I may partake of your services and experience something new?

Seriously, though, that would be interesting.

Back to the thread... Can you drink? I already placed scripture on here pointing out my views on drinking. I do believe you can drink, and I believe that Jesus drank, whether it was fermented or not. I don't think that the original question asked whether you are drinking beer (a light drink, with less calories and more filling), or liquor (a heavier alcohol, regardless of the % proof).

The answer really is a personal one, and it's based upon your own convictions, as others have said, as long as you do not become a drunk.

One drink will not impair your judgement, even if it does kill your brain cells, banateanace, but you have to decide on whether you feel convicted with that one drink or not.

Is that better, Andy?

[Archangel]

yo...I am not washing any of yall stinky feet...hehe...jk..

[61leumas]

NO YOU SHOULDN'T EXCEPT FOR CINA AND THE HONEYMOON

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by 61leumas
NO YOU SHOULDN'T EXCEPT FOR CINA AND THE HONEYMOON

So, you only wash somebody's feet during cina and on your honeymoon? :scratch:

Man, that's odd. :screwy:

[Archangel]

it's a tradition...one that I haven't ever done...talking bout the washing of the feet...it's only symbolic...if your heart is not in the true essence of it than you're just wasting time and touching peoples stinky feet...you do not have to do it.

imagine in a church of just 500+ people... everyone all of the sudden taking off their shoes and socks...just the old people would be enough to kill me...and the stinch would get the attention of the CDC chemical response team...

[LickHerOrLiquor]

SaintJoe69 stated earlier that "the bible should not provide room for sexual thoughts." Why do you use the number 69. That's is a sexually offensive number.

[Archangel]

no it's not....the stupidity of this world made it that...the # 69 originally was the numerical value of opposing factions... ex: the down side to up...the yen and yang...the fall of old and rise of new...and so on... but the evil nature of human perversion adds it's 2 cents to the equation...

...but I will not dispute the validity of it's use in the above statement...

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by LickHerOrLiquor
SaintJoe69 stated earlier that "the bible should not provide room for sexual thoughts." Why do you use the number 69. That's is a sexually offensive number.

Hey, Lick, show me where I said "the bible should not provide room for sexual thoughts"?

The 69 is offensive to you because you don't understand the reasoning I use it, therefore, you created a reasoning out of your filthy head. Yes, I use it for the ying-yang symbolism, but for other reasons, too. Maybe something special happened in that year for me. Fortunately for me, you don't know me, so you don't know.

You assume too much, especially for someone with your nick. :twak:

[Archangel]

ummm...I used to have a 69 chevelle SS...modified to a 70

[oanabomboana]

Originally posted by Archangel
it's a tradition...one that I haven't ever done...talking bout the washing of the feet...it's only symbolic...if your heart is not in the true essence of it than you're just wasting time and touching peoples stinky feet...you do not have to do it.

imagine in a church of just 500+ people... everyone all of the sudden taking off their shoes and socks...just the old people would be enough to kill me...and the stinch would get the attention of the CDC chemical response team...

:lol2:

You made me laugh out loud:laf:
I hope no one around heard me :clap1:

[meesh]

haha..that made me laugh too. thanks goodness it isnt done that way though. most people that i know wash their feet at home and make sure to have on clean socks. and then the women go with the women and the men with the men in separate rooms. and only those who have been already baptized and have entered in a covenant relationship with God participate. so there goes half the church.....

but that was a funny thought angel.....

[Iacob]

i'm gonna bring back up the original idea of this topic which was drinking.

Many people quoted that verse where it says drink to help with stomach problems. Thomas drank wine to do that ... but which one of us have such a stomach problem that we must drink to help heal it?! Other then that .. its just a reason people use to justify their drinking.

>>Emy

[meesh]

ummm thomas? you mean timothy, right?

if so, then ya....i believe paul told timothy to drink grapejuice....cause that IS good for the stomach.
anyway....this has all been mentioned before.

it is too bad some of us dont care that brain cells are being killed by the alcohol (even if there is no "intoxication"). our body..including our brains cells....are not really ours. they are Gods. and we have a responsiblity to take care of them. cause if we harm this body KNOWINGLY in any way.....then we are sinning.......

[SaintJoe69]

Do you mean the 100% real grapejuice, or the artificially made one, with only 10% real juice? :D

Is it only grapejuice that is good for your tummy, or all other juices, too? :scratch:

[Nygel]

Pepto-bismal is good for your tummy...;)

[Archangel]

but you know what's better than pepto bismal....?

...pepto-bismal and jack, on the rocks.... now that will cure an ulcer...! :)

[KrazyEuro]

i know what can burn an ulcer..hell :)

[Nygel]

youch...hot hot hot.

[KrazyEuro]

big time...its too hot you wouldnt have to worry about the ulcer... why throw down Jacks to cure for a tad smidget when you can just never worry about it again?

[KrazyEuro]

i dont think drinking is a sin...but the bible says dont cause anybody to stumble..so if to me drinking is a sin...i wont drink.. and if you know drinking is a sin to me...dont drink in front of me.. the bible says keep that between you and God...so lets say saintjoe (sorry dude lol...we're always against eachother i felt like adding ur name lol) that we're out after church one night..and you pop open a bud or whatever it is you might like..and knowing that i think its wrong..thats a sin against you..cus i will look at it and say..wow..claiming christianity and yet still drinks?

[SaintJoe69]

That is correct, krazy. I, or you, should not use drinking to become drunk, nor should drinking be a stumbling block for others.
With that said, I think that the majority of things a person does may be considered a stumbling block for somebody else. So, how should you go about trying to satisfy everyone?
:scratch:

Take for example:

... one crazy night, krazy and I decide to go hang out with his girl and a few other friends, and I popped open an IBC rootbeer, and he said, "Whoa, dude! You're drinking a beer."

And I said, "No, it's just a root beer... just the same as any other soda."

And then he said, "No, dude. It still contains the word 'beer' in it. I'm going to walk over here and start making out with my chick, while I give you some free time to ask the Lord for your forgiveness. Yeah, dude, think about redeeming yourself... man, in front of all of us, you're drinking." and then walks off with his chick towards a booth to kiss and make out.

Should I, as a christian, thinking that this is a stumbling block for my personal buddy, krazy, stop drinking rootbeer?
:scratch:
Or should I chug down the rootbeer that I had already paid for, and then walk over to the booth to interrupt their session of kissing and making out?
:scratch:

Maybe I should start a poll on this one, huh? :D

[Nygel]

lol...funny...I like root beer and my Mom says it has the word beer in it so :twak: ...lol...

oh and my advice would be to take pictures of them making out and post it on royouth...HAHAHAH....JUST KIDDING.

[stinkinQT]

YEA I DONT SEE A POINT IN DRINKING.. I MEAN YEA HAVING A WINE WITH YOUR MEAL EVERY NOW AND THEN I DONT SEE A PROBLEM WITH.. BUT DONT MAKE IT A HABIT.. IT WILL DO NO GOOD TO YOU.

[SaintJoe69]

Here's another view on drinking, and I really can't give you a verse right now because I'm at work, and I can't open up too many internet windows...

Jesus did not think that drinking was bad. In fact, He approved of it during a celebration. If this were not so, He would not have turned the water into wine at that wedding.
:D

Think about it... if Jesus thought drinking was bad, and we are talking about fermented wine, not the grapejuice stuff... Why would Jesus supply everyone at that wedding with alcohol?

Hmmm... :scratch:

[emi2975]

ok put it this was TOO MUCH of it is bad



i think
not positive of it tho
thats just what i think

[emi2975]

you say how much it too much

to much is when your drunk and knocked out, you shouldn't get close to that tho. maybe just a little bit is good
i'll let you figure how much is a little for you

[SaintJoe69]

So, you agree that drinking in ITSELF is NOT a sin, but it's when somebody becomes DRUNK from drinking or if their drinking in front of somebody else becomes a STUMBLING BLOCK.
:D

[emi2975]

yup thats it
drinkin its self is not a sin
its only a sin if you abuse your privilages(humm can't spell) and get drunk
more than likely when your drunk you'll sin even more
so don't get drunk and you won't sin





hmmmm if that made any sence

[john farcas]

Originally posted by WINDOWLICKER
PEOPLE DRANK IN THE BIBLE...EVEN JESUS DID. I DUNNO WHERE EXACTLY IT STATES IT BUT ITS THERE. THOSE THAT ABUSE IT THINK THAT SINCE JESUS DID, ITS OKAY TO GO OFF AND GET PISS DRUNK. NOT TRUE.

JESUS DIDNT GET DRUNK, HE DRANK, AS TO ENHANCE HIS MEAL OR WHATEVER. I DUNNO I STILL THINK DRINKING IS CONSSIDERED A SIN ONLY WHEN DRANK IN LARGGE AMOUNT TO THE POINT WHERE GETTING DRUNK IS YOUR REASONS BEHIND TEH ACT.

HEY SIMONA YOU CAN DRINK ITS OK ...JUSS DONT DRINK TO GET DRUNK ..THAT A SIN:help: :help: :tut: :tut: :tut: :tut: :tut: : :tut:

[KrazyEuro]

thats right saint joe!! lol...we finally agreed on 1 thing yay!! lol :)

[SaintJoe69]

My example in the other thread was much better, but I had to express the views on drinking in it's proper thread.
:D

[KrazyEuro]

dang always looking to the past for answers!! :bfro:

[SaintJoe69]

The past is knowledge... without it, we would have none. :scratch:

[Archangel]

dai cu burdufu... baga cu galeata... bei cu damijeana...
dupa idea lu multi ar trebii sa bem cu pipeta...hehe...! -Parazitii

[barosanu]

hey u guys i think that if your church has the rule that no member that etends the church is allowed to drink and your a member and you drink you are sinning your church makes the laws and if you breake them your sinning .......................the church has the power to make rules that us the cristians have to follow and we do have to follow them no matter what...............

[SaintJoe69]

A church does not necessarily make the laws. Any church is allowed to have guidelines. Those are not the same as guidelines. A church, like the government, or any organization, is allowed to have guidelines. If a person chooses to be a part of that organization, then they are choosing to follow the guidelines set up by that organization. I don't think that guidelines are necessarily set up so that you feel uncomfortable as a person, but probably more for the sake of the group as a whole.

You always have the choice of avoiding your "laws" as you put it. If you attend a church that you consider to be too strict, stop attending and go to another church that you are more comfortable. If someone thinks that royouth is "too strict", then go to another site and chat. If someone thinks that the US laws are too strict, go to another country where they are not as strict, or where they don't even have laws to abide.

Guidelines are set up for a specific reason. They are meant as a positive thing for the group, as a whole, so that not one person gains control over the whole group.
:D

Oh, yes, the same goes for getting drunk. :tut:

*Be careful if you DO decide to move somewhere that has no rules or regulations, because everyone else probably moved there for the same reason, too. If someone decides to hurt or kill you because there is no "law" against that, then what can I say?
:wall: :whip:

[(¯¥¯`Må®íØ´¯¥¯)]

all that i have to say is exactly what the bible says about drinking

"Numeri 6:3 _He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried."

"Luca 1:15 _For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."

"Romani 14:21 _It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."

But do not listen to me for i am not worthy to preach unto others..but listen and follow what the bible says to live in the Lords footsteps.

[SaintJoe69]

According to the scripture you posted, NUM 6:3 says that we are not to eat grapes at all then, neither moist or dried. If this is so, do you think it was the grape that was the forbidden fruit? No, because the forbidden fruit came from a tree, not a vine.

LUKE 1:15 says that we are not to drink even wine. Wine is made of fermented grapes, whether it's only one day fermented or more. We have shown using scripture, from previous postings, that even Jesus drank.

ROM 14:21 is just telling you not to be a stumbling block for your brother, or anybody else.

Again, people pulling scripture out of the Bible without taking all of the Bible into context. :tut:

[Archangel]

tell em Joe

[corey007]

Interesting... not too long ago I asked a local Pastor this same question. He was adamant that it is a "sin", but as I played devil's advocate (or was it just opening up his mind?? dunno) anyhow, we both dwelved in the Word and with time found an interesting observation. THis post already contains some of the same topics/verses we had looked at.
We noticed that, where God had a Holy plan with someone, He made sure that the person was consecrated especially for that purpose and most always, they were told to keep 'bauturi ametitoare' away from their lips. Samson and John the Baptist were both such examples. For some reason God did not even want THEIR PARENTS to touch wine while pregnant!! Interesting, no? Why would He demand that??
Many possibilities exist:
- either God did that because he wanted these children holy (and if so, does that imply that wine is in some way 'unholy'?? If so, why touch it at all??? Would we thus be better off without it??)
- or He demanded it to make sure that no physical damage occurs to them (we all know that when pregnant it is suggested that you not drink alcoholic beverages). If this is the reason, then God is the ultimate doctor for He knew that His plan could be ruined by a silly little thing such as fermented grape juice and it's subsequent effect on an embryo.
.... and there were others, but I'm longwinded already.

[corey007]

Anyhow, I hold to my belief that drinking is not a "sin". But at the same time, it has no purpose in my life. I gain nothing from it, even if I were to do it just to 'fit in' at the gatherings I sometimes attend. More so, it seems I get more respect and recognition those times when I am strong enough to resist the temptation to 'grab a cocktail', because most always I have to explain (and thus minister) to others why it is I don't drink.
What a way to use Satan's trap against him, no? Now if only I could do that ALL the time, I'd feel very good about myself. But.... the battle continues.

Nonetheless, my heart is at peace on this subject and consequently on other's similar to this. The answer seems to lie in questions: How close do I want my walk with God to be? Do I want to have 'supernatural' experiences with Him, or am I satisfied with being just another follower?

A question just came to mind - Would Moses have been allowed to see God's face if he was a frequent user of alcoholic beverages?
I don't have the answer... at least not one I can document. My thought is No, I seriously doubt it.
IT ALL SEEMS TO DEPEND ON THE ROLE WE WANT TO PLAY. DO WE WANT TO BE 'ONE OF THE GUYS'? THEN WE MUST CONSECRATE OURSELVES.

[SaintJoe69]

Corey, no offense, but unless you're already pure and holy, like John the baptist, I wouldn't worry about it. And if for some reason, you think that you're supposed to be the next Jesus, well, I think God would have given you plenty of messages by now telling you that, "Hey, you're the second coming. Go and gather the harvest."
:wall:

You know, the Bible does not state that even Adam had seen God's face. All it says is that they walked and talked together in the Garden.

You'll see God's face, or at least Jesus' face when you get to heaven. As for now, unless you want God to smite you where you are sitting, in that chair in front of your computer, I would not think that seeing his face is such a good idea.

[kramer]

i think its not bad to drink its only if u get drunk thats what i dont think is right....

[KrazyEuro]

lets look over something rite quick ..first off i never drank before and i think its wrong to drink! lol...but im just gonna show why some verses used are not good arguments...

Originally posted by jmcurtusan
all that i have to say is exactly what the bible says about drinking

"Numeri 6:3 _He shall separate himself from wine and strong drink, and shall drink no vinegar of wine, or vinegar of strong drink, neither shall he drink any liquor of grapes, nor eat moist grapes, or dried."

this talks about drinking whine OR "STRONG" (key word) drink.. such as jack daniels and whatever else is hard..doesnt talk about drinking a drink that doesnt really impair your thinking...example.. bicardi silver...if you drink it..it doesnt necessarily get you drunk.. and the legal drinkin whatever is .08 ..or something like that.. so yah you cant really use that verse :bfro:

Originally posted by jmcurtusan


"Luca 1:15 _For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb."


this again talks about STRONG (key word) drink..same as previous verse..nothing really to say here... :bfro:

Originally posted by jmcurtusan
"Romani 14:21 _It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak."


this talks about stumbling..and not to drink whine..or eat other flesh... well if you eat sarmale..your eating someone else's flesh.. an animal lol...and...it doesnt talk about other drinks such as bicardi and so forth..however..if your drinking causes someone to stumble..the bible says in 1 corinthians to keep it in your house between you and God...and it does talk about that... once again i agree that drinking is bad TO ME..but to say its a sin... eh thats a different thing..because i think its bad..yes i consider it a sin if i drink it...if someone doesnt see it bad to drink a lil here and there..cool..DONT GET DRUNK!! ...i think drinking's bad though.. good verses...but they dont back up your point :bfro:

[65stang]

So bacardi cant get a person drunk? Last time i checked it does contain alcohol. Alcohol can get a person drunk. Im sure it wouldnt get everyone drunk but there are people out there that cant handle it, muchless people that dont drink alcohol period. Alcohol is a sin. It harms the body. What more do you need. What is the purpose of drinking alcohol when there is so much other stuff to drink. There is water, juice, pop, milk, and so on. I agree that pop isnt good for the body either but it sure doesnt affect your judgement in a negative way. This thread is proof that everyone is changing their religion to benefit themselves.

[SaintJoe69]

I think that Krazy could have been drinking some of that Bacardi of his when he wrote this. He seems mighty chipper in his writing.
:twak:

[65stang]

Originally posted by LickHerOrLiquor
SaintJoe69 stated earlier that "the bible should not provide room for sexual thoughts." Why do you use the number 69. That's is a sexually offensive number.

you should be the one to talk

[65stang]

Originally posted by PunkGurl4Christ7
YEA I DONT SEE A POINT IN DRINKING.. I MEAN YEA HAVING A WINE WITH YOUR MEAL EVERY NOW AND THEN I DONT SEE A PROBLEM WITH.. BUT DONT MAKE IT A HABIT.. IT WILL DO NO GOOD TO YOU.

what good would a glass of wine with your dinner do you?

[Nygel]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
lets look over something rite quick ..first off i never drank before and i think its wrong to drink! lol...but im just gonna show why some verses used are not good arguments...



this talks about drinking whine OR "STRONG" (key word) drink.. such as jack daniels and whatever else is hard..doesnt talk about drinking a drink that doesnt really impair your thinking...example.. bicardi silver...if you drink it..it doesnt necessarily get you drunk.. and the legal drinkin whatever is .08 ..or something like that.. so yah you cant really use that verse :bfro:



this again talks about STRONG (key word) drink..same as previous verse..nothing really to say here... :bfro:



this talks about stumbling..and not to drink whine..or eat other flesh... well if you eat sarmale..your eating someone else's flesh.. an animal lol...and...it doesnt talk about other drinks such as bicardi and so forth..however..if your drinking causes someone to stumble..the bible says in 1 corinthians to keep it in your house between you and God...and it does talk about that... once again i agree that drinking is bad TO ME..but to say its a sin... eh thats a different thing..because i think its bad..yes i consider it a sin if i drink it...if someone doesnt see it bad to drink a lil here and there..cool..DONT GET DRUNK!! ...i think drinking's bad though.. good verses...but they dont back up your point :bfro:

It makes more sense to me to use the words "strong drink" to refer to any alcoholic drink. KrazyEuro have you found a passage where they refer to "weak drink"? or what would they call that other kind of alcohol? :scratch:

[SaintJoe69]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by LickHerOrLiquor
SaintJoe69 stated earlier that "the bible should not provide room for sexual thoughts." Why do you use the number 69. That's is a sexually offensive number.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Originally posted by 65stang
you should be the one to talk

Wow, 65stang. This was a pretty old quote. Thanks for the defense, I think. I already defended myself if I wasn't mistaken, and that character was banned a long time ago.

:D

[Ta8Dah]

i think its bad to drink period

[brwnyeyes]

i agree with steli in the begining of this thread he made very good points... ! :clap1:

God Bless! :D

[SaintJoe69]

Ta8Dah must be drinking something. He keeps repeating his signature. :twak:

[KrazyEuro]

its funny how people claim that we were drunk while writing..isnt that what the jews claimed the apostles were when they were in the synagogues filled with the holy spirit? :bfro: just thought i point that out a lil bit... and novellation...no i cannot find a passage that talks about weak drinks...but i gotta ask myself.. what type of drink was passed around at the last supper? yes you can say well Jesus never drank from it...but why did Jesus pass it out to his disciples if he thought it was bad? in this sense.. if Jesus helped his disciples to sin...wouldnt that be a sin on Jesus' part? hense that he wouldnt' necessarily be perfect? it all doesnt make sense when you think about it like that..Jesus never got married..does that mean we shouldnt get married?? the Bible says be imitators of Jesus Christ!...the only thing that gets me with topics like these...is some people tend to put others down rather than talking things out and having a nice formal lil debate....when apostle paul, peter, simon, barnabus..when they preached the word..the bible says they debated about issues in the synagogues with the unbelievers...i never seen it mention once about them putting the unbelievers down....why then must we put the believers down in their opinions?? to me drinking is wrong..thats why i never done it...but to someone else it might not be wrong..thats ok..as long as he drinks it respectively without getting his act of judgement compromised..the bible also talks about doing it between you and the Lord only if it causes others to stumble in their faith!

[SaintJoe69]

I know! How can somebody make a claim that you guys were drinking while writing what you wrote?! That's totally absurd, although I'm sure they meant it as a joke. How could they call you a drunkard? Gosh, we don't need any name callings during our debates. I mean, what are we? Are we polititians? NO!

Gosh, you know something else I noticed? Mankind is always trying to associate himself with divinity somehow. Actually, we know what happened to some of the Apostles when they tried to preach. They were imprisoned and some suffered worse things. Ah, but we should all be christians in here. I say we take a vote.

Those who favor name calling, raise your hands (and do it in a polite manner). :thfro:
Those who oppose it, well, give yourself a pat on the back. :box:

Hip, hip, horray!!! for those that do not drink! We salute you! :thfro:
And to those that DO drink... well, this Bud's for you. Bottoms up! :rolleyes:

[KrazyEuro]

:lol2:

[MaRK!]

topics like this will never see closure for either side of the debate.
to 'conclude' that drinking is okay, on THIS site, is to encourage the younger readers that alcohol consumption is acceptable among God's children.
to 'conclude' that drinking is wrong is to assume so - therefore voiding the argument altogether and adopting verbal teaching of tradition as opposed to written fact.
there are some things that the holy spirit reveals to you when you ask for wisdom. the wisdom of God will guide you through life if you ask for it and the holy spirit will condemn you for doing those things you will grow to consider 'wrong'.
to argue about what we 'should' each feel condemned about is like arguing over which crayon in the box is best. for this reason we are each called to have a personal relationship with Christ for it is he that shows you the way.

so if you have doubts, pray for wisdom and guidance. you wILL know what is right and wrong when you're in a given situation.

im not taking any sides on this one because i believe some things come down to the individual. some battles must be faced alone and my victory or result or conclusion may or may not be the same as yours. pray and you'll know.:)

[SaintJoe69]

That was well said, Mark, and I, too, believe that some battles must be faced alone.

I would like to hope that the fight in life is not solely ours alone, otherwise, we would have no answers but those of our own convictions all the time. I think that some of the topics discussed on royouth are ones that people have tried to battle on their own, or maybe have not faced, yet. There are many issues that a person must decide on their own whether it is beneficial for them or not, but I don't mind the discussion. Especially if it helps a person decide. Show me one person that has read the Bible and has fully understood it's meaning all on their own, and I will show you God. Even through prayer and the Holy spirit, I think that it is wise to discuss certain subjects. Otherwise, the question of free will would come into play. One of the subjects that is spread throughout several threads on royouth.

If each person would just read the Bible, and prayed, and the Holy Spirit came down and convicted them properly, then there would be no need to question anything in the Bible, and that each person would be the same, along the lines of thinking. This is not so. We need help, each and every one. Whether this comes from discussing certain subjects a person is struggling with, or getting a different point of view, I think the discussions are helpful.

There are many murderers who claim that they are very religious, and some of them even know the word of God better than you and I; however, their misinterpretation of the Bible has led them on a stray path. Could they have been helped if their questions had been discussed or answered? Possibly.

These were just some thoughts. It just kind of annoys me at times when someone will just come into a thread, and suddenly assume that people are arguing for no apparent reason, and then tell us to go and read the Bible. If life were that simple, then I think that the ONLY book that would be in existence would be the Bible.

*I'm not talking about you, by the way. You give some good insight and views on many of the topics. :thfro:

[corey007]

mark - NICE!!! Very eloquent, though SaintJoe does bring out the one aspect that the apostles practiced: the bonding, through talking and debating and trying to understand what and how to live a life that will bring glory to His name.

I will say one thing though. Some debates are worth having, others aren't. It's not determined by the subject, but by the genuineness of those involved.

So far this thread had been pretty informative.

except.... let me continue this on another post...

[corey007]

SaintJoe, dude.. U gotta watch that little sword of yours, you swing it like you own everybody. I put my 2cents worth and you tackled me, "no offense intended". Your response wasn't even in line with what I wrote, for that matter. And then 65stang stood up for you (albeit unnecessarily, for that topic was dead) but you said "thanks, i think". You think????? You could've left that out and you would've at least put off to be appreciative.
Easy with that sword bigman. It'll come back to haunt you.

[christine7685]

im not sure if this verse was posted yet.. i skimmed through some stuff but i didnt read post after post.. anyways i think its a sin.. not only getting drunk but just drinking all together...

Proverbs 23:31&32
"Do not gaze upon wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup, when it goes down smoothly! In the end it bites like a snake and poisons like a viper."

so really.. Gods advise to us is to not even gaze upon it.. but.. thats just Gods advise!!!!! God bless.. love you all!!!! and sorry again if its already been posted!

[christine7685]

:clap1: i AGREE corey!

its great to think youre smart but lets not think were TOO wise : )

[OanaLicious]

I agree Christine...girl your smart, where you from? lol love ya fata
Pretty much dont mess with fire,dont even put urself in that position where you have access to alcohol, why even taste it? But then again do what you want its your life and your choices, it will only affect you. Peace!

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by corey007
SaintJoe, dude.. U gotta watch that little sword of yours, you swing it like you own everybody. I put my 2cents worth and you tackled me, "no offense intended". Your response wasn't even in line with what I wrote, for that matter. And then 65stang stood up for you (albeit unnecessarily, for that topic was dead) but you said "thanks, i think". You think????? You could've left that out and you would've at least put off to be appreciative.
Easy with that sword bigman. It'll come back to haunt you.

Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Thankfully, I don't live by the sword. I would rather use a pen, or computer in this case.

That is what a discussion is for. A discussion is a consideration of a subject by a group; an earnest conversation. A debate means to engage in a formal discussion or argument by discussing opposing points. If a person joins a discussion in order to voice his/her opinion, then that person should expect the conversation to be returned. If you said something that I didn't like, I am going to tell you, just as you have told me in the quote above.

I do not sit here and voice my opinions and expect nothing in return, otherwise that would be similiar to giving a lecture.

I apologize you feel offended, but I must remind you that this is a discussion. :D

[KrazyEuro]

i'll admit..christine i never knew you actually like knew stuff about the bible like this...thats pretty awesome and encouraging to know :bfro: God BLess dudette :bfro:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by christine7685
:clap1: i AGREE corey!

its great to think youre smart but lets not think were TOO wise : )

Never in ANY of my postings have I claimed to be wise. If that is the word that you chose to consider me, then I am flattered. Thank you.
:wall:

[KrazyEuro]

she said "think" ...joey..you gotta look for key words in sentences not just what you wanna hear :bfro: :lol2:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
she said "think" ...joey..you gotta look for key words in sentences not just what you wanna hear :bfro: :lol2:

I am fully aware of what she said. I would not choose words to describe you, Krazy, if I, myself, did not "think" that those words would not fit my impression of your character.

I know... K.I.S.S. mmmmmuuuaah! :D

[KrazyEuro]

:lol2: :lol2: :lol2: your a funny dude...i like being the pain in the neck :lol2: :lol2:

[SaintJoe69]

So, where ARE the pastors that come in here, if any? What happened to that bishop character?
:scratch:

[Nygel]

I think TheBishop got frustrated from all those people disagreeing with him. Also some people didn't give him the respect that he deserved. I'll admit that I got defensive when he said something that was against my traditional church's teachings.

There was also a "Lauscau" :scratch: character and I guess he also disapeared. yup, yup. If there are any pastors they're in hiding :lol2:

[meesh]

that ghitar guy was pretty sharp too.......wonder what happened to him........

[christine7685]

SAINTJOE... you can think someone is full of themselves just by the way they act/talk... but you yourself dont have to think they are all that... get it??? you come off as someone who THINKS they are the wisest person around.. you dont have to say it. believe me, i dont think you are either : ) maybe we can FINALLY agree on something!! im not trying to offend anyone.. just trying to point something out before it gets a lil too out of hand : )

ELI... PSSHHHH heck yea i know!!!! im a good girl i study my bible often its good for me (and lil oanuta muahah)

LOVE YOU TOO OANA!!! MMUUAAAHHH

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by christine7685
SAINTJOE... you can think someone is full of themselves just by the way they act/talk... but you yourself dont have to think they are all that... get it??? you come off as someone who THINKS they are the wisest person around.. you dont have to say it. believe me, i dont think you are either : ) maybe we can FINALLY agree on something!! im not trying to offend anyone.. just trying to point something out before it gets a lil too out of hand : )

ELI... PSSHHHH heck yea i know!!!! im a good girl i study my bible often its good for me (and lil oanuta muahah)

LOVE YOU TOO OANA!!! MMUUAAAHHH

Geez... Here I am, sitting in my chair in front of the computer, thinking... "What in the world is this girl thinking?!"
:twak:
I don't "come off" as anything or anyone. I don't pretend to be anything I am not. I simply voice my opinion and ideas. Now, if you get offended by that... well, I think I already apologized, but live with it. Again, I never claimed to be some guru or I never claimed to be wise. "For only a fool would think himself to be wise." That's a nice fortune cookie quote for you. :rolleyes:

Now, just because we don't agree on something, does not make neither you or I any wiser than the other. Apparently, you think this is a battle of wits, whereas I think it is just a debate.

Simply put, if you don't want to discuss or debate, simply do not comment, thinking that you will not get any responses back. People like you, who just put in their two cents and expect everyone else to accept your views as being the correct one, are silly. You're especially silly when someone gives you a rebuttal, in defense of their own views, because you get so offended.

I just sit back and laugh. :laf: I know, it's wrong. :tut: But... :twak: if you can't accept the apology, then live with it.

[Archangel]

I'm laughing ...while holding my glass of _____ ... no one should have to answer the question do you drink...It does not matter...neither drink nor food will make you lose your salvation.

[corey007]

Joe, you couldn't insult me if you INTENDED to. You aint' that good. HA. lol

seriously, no offense taken.
Oh, and thanks for the english lesson: debating and discussing ARE two different things. I'll give you that one. But dude, posting in this forum reminds me of writing rebuttals for my Torts class!!! What's up with that??

"any word you say can AND WILL be used against you" ... lol

[corey007]

So, now that CHRISTINE has knocked you off your highhorse :-)and now that I know who I'm up against..... let's start a discussion. !!!!
My posts, a couple pages back, about that little impromptu Bible study with a local pastor and the things we learned ..... why/how did you understand out of that post that consecrating yourself was only meant for John the Baptist and for Jesus?? I say this based on your response, which follows:

----- Corey, no offense, but unless you're already pure and holy, like John the baptist, I wouldn't worry about it. And if for some reason, you think that you're supposed to be the next Jesus, well, I think God would have given you plenty of messages by now telling you that, "Hey, you're the second coming. Go and gather the harvest." ----

[meesh]

ummm......ihave to disagree with that angel. if i believe drinking is a sin, then it is a sin, and any sin will make you lose your salvation. there is no such thing as once saved always saved. grace doesnt mean that you can just keep on sinning. grace is an opportunity to do the right thing now.
if a police officer or judge gives you grace after you get pulled over or get a speeding ticket......that doesnt mean that now you can peal out of the parking lot and go speeding again. grace is just an opportunity to do the right thing.

so....conclusion, if it has to do with what you are convicted about, you can lose your salvation.

my personal belief only......

[meesh]

oh......and was john really PURE and HOLY... was he? we know that Jesus was and is....but john? i dont know......

[christine7685]

SAINTJOE HUN IT HAS NOTHINNNN TO DO WITH A DISCUSSION OR A DEBATE IT HAS TO DO WITH THE :twak: AND THE WHOLE "THAT WAS A STUPID RESPONSE" ATTITUDE... IM SURE YOU NEVER SAID THAT BUT YOU KNOW ITS JUST A FEELING IVE GOTTEN (AND APPARENTLY IM NOT THE ONLY ONE!!!!!) ANYWAYS DUDE IM DONE JUST BE A LITTLE LESS SARCASTIC IT MIGHT HELP!!!!!!!!!! LOVE YOU ALLLLL AND I HOPE YOU GUYS ALL GET UR ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION.. OH WHICH REMINDS ME.. ANGEL.. TOTALLY DISAGREE!!!! HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT? YOU CAN SAY THAT ABOUT ANYTHING.. AND THEN NOTHING WOULD BE A SIN.. I THINK YOU KNOW BETTER!

God bless guys!

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by corey007
So, now that CHRISTINE has knocked you off your highhorse :-)and now that I know who I'm up against..... let's start a discussion. !!!!
My posts, a couple pages back, about that little impromptu Bible study with a local pastor and the things we learned ..... why/how did you understand out of that post that consecrating yourself was only meant for John the Baptist and for Jesus?? I say this based on your response, which follows:

----- Corey, no offense, but unless you're already pure and holy, like John the baptist, I wouldn't worry about it. And if for some reason, you think that you're supposed to be the next Jesus, well, I think God would have given you plenty of messages by now telling you that, "Hey, you're the second coming. Go and gather the harvest." ----

Did you miss something or what?! :twak:
What high horse was I sitting upon, other than the one you and Christine put me on? And besides, you DON'T know who you're up against. :sly:

By the way, you and Christine feel free to play tag team. :twak:

Anyhow, back to John the baptist. I used this example because I believe either you or somebody else used him first, stating that he was holy and did not consecrate his body with wine (the fermented grape kind). Yes, it might have been a poor choice to follow the lead and just stick his name in here. The only holy and pure person would have been Jesus; however, I still believe Jesus drank, whether it was fermented or not. And I will state it again, if Jesus did think that drinking was a sin, then why would he allow any of His disciples to drink, and why would he have turned water into wine at that wedding? I don't think it was just to perform a miracle. He could have done anything to perform a miracle.

:tut:

[christine7685]

And besides, you DON'T know who you're up against.

wow did you not just TOTALLY support what i have been trying to prove all along!?!? ;) who hes up against? youre a christian and a human just like everyonneee else here, youre not any more special or any less! = ) and dont be so offended hun we were JUUSSSTTTT SSAAYYIIINNNNN k and we're done : ) lets all be happy

ANYWAYS I PROMISE IM DONE THIS TIME!!!! GOOD NIGHT FOLKSSSSS!

[SaintJoe69]

See?! That's my point. You quote me saying, "And besides, you DON'T know who you're up against." And then you go and say,

Originally posted by christine7685
wow did you not just TOTALLY support what i have been trying to prove all along!?!? who hes up against? youre a christian and a human just like everyonneee else here, youre not any more special or any less! = ) and dont be so offended hun we were JUUSSSTTTT SSAAYYIIINNNNN k and we're done : ) lets all be happy

On one hand, here I am thinking that Corey meant she "knows" who I am by hinting that she knows me personally. You, on the other hand, quote me with the above and then make the statement in bold, hinting that I said I was above the both of you. You, Christine and Corey, have put me on a high horse and then have taken me down again. Not I. I am a mere pawn in this game of debate and discussion. I merely voiced my views. You both are the ones who thought, or now failed to think, that I was any more special. You are the ones who promoted me to a knight or a bishop, or a rook for that matter. Have I claimed to be a guru? Have I made any false claims to be the Messiah? Have I claimed to be anything at all? I've posted a lot, so remind me if I have claimed any of the above, because it slips my memory. I must have short term memory loss like Novellation. Either that, or I'm getting a writer's block. No, I have made no claims of the above nature, and now you say that I am just human, as though I have made such a claim.

Well, my hat is off to you, my two good ladies, for I am human again in your eyes. :rolleyes: Thank you for your permission to join this world along side of your gracefulness.
:twak:

[christine7685]

you are so welcome

[KrazyEuro]

yeeeesh...i disagree with you banateaca...once saved always saved..i hold to that :)... Romans 10:9, if you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, YOU ARE SAVED" says the word. now theres differences between people claiming they are saved and people who are really saved. If you are a TRUE christian then i dont see how its possible for you to loose your salvation. If you are one of those talk the talk type of christians, then yes i can see how you can loose it. But i dont think God saves someone from hell and then later on throws him back in hell..in this sense your saying that GOd is not all knowing...if he knows that someone is gonna end up turning his back on him, do you really think he's gonna save him to begin with?? its like this..heres an example... you recorded a basketball game...and the final score was Lakers 120 and the clippers 118...but you didnt watch the game you just heard...so then you go home with a couple of your friends to watch the tape...but you pretend you dont know the score and you guys all make bet...and you bet that lakers are gonna win... and the other person bets clippers..lets say its the 4th quarter and clippers are winning by 15 points...are you gonna switch your mind and vote for clippers to win now?? even though you know the outcome? certainly not! your gonna stick with your victorious team cus you know for a FACT that they're gonna win...in this sense..you are all knowing to the fact of lakers winning the basketball game...same with God...he's all knowing in the fact that he knows who's gonna stick with him and who's gonna leave him...so he saves those who he knows will continue to live for him in their lives...those who call themselves Christians but are denied by their lifestyles, are truly not christians...you can talk the talk but also walk the walk...

[Nygel]

Romans 10:9, if you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, YOU ARE SAVED"

KrazyEuro According to the verse that YOU posted what do you have to do to be saved? Two things:

1. believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead
2. confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord.

If someone does those two things they are SAVED!!! how many kinds of saved are there? If someone does those two things THEY don't claim they are saved, the BIBLE says they are SAVED.

Are they TRULY saved??? OF COURSE they are TRULY saved....you know WHY??? Because that's what the VERSE says. :wall:

How can you say that the verse you quote promises salvation and than say that some aren't TRULY saved if they do it???

p.s. let us both search after the truth, not human ideas...

[st3lliano]

Originally posted by tenazrael
Well the Bible didn't state their that Jesus drank wine.... it only states that he turned water into wine! Ah I gotta go read up on my scriptures and find out!

Brother, what kinda theologian are you?? They drank wine at the final supper. So yes, Jesus drank wine. The 12 disciples drank wine. Except maybe Judas, who ended up hanging himself so goes to show you..........

[st3lliano]

Originally posted by sonialorena12
the Bible saids that we should not do what the world does. if the world drinks, we should not. Yes it is a sin. Years ago people did not have these disscusions. they were closer to God and followed his rules. they knew what a sin was, and they did not question God. NOw we are getting more and more away from him. we have so many questions. if we look in the Bible and interpret it correctly, then we have the answer. GBU

I am sorry to inform you, and possibly anybody else that believes this, but the depravity that occured in biblical times was NOTHING compared to today. I have seen this said a bunch of time on royouth, and it is not true that they were more holier where they did not have to discuss issues. In fact they had the same issues that we have today. Wanna know why? all because we see a lot of bad in our world does not mean that ancient times had no bad because we have had practice. As sinners, our human race has been making the same mistakes for GENERATIONS. Lets try not to spread the fallacy that people in history were better than people today cuz that is generally not true (aka Alexander the Great vs. Billy the Graham)


:box:


As for drinking, I disagree with people completely who say that it is wrong cuz your mommy and daddy say so. I disagree with you if you say it is wrong cuz it makes your belly aches (or vice versa).
Cosmin shows versus of jesus not accepting wine which was mixed with throw-up (Matthew verse) and perfume (Mark verse), so maybe that is the reason, and not that he did not like it.

Just so that you know, I DO NOT drink so lets not jump on me and call me an alcoholic cuz that would hurt my feelings :baby:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by st3lliano
Brother, what kinda theologian are you?? They drank wine at the final supper. So yes, Jesus drank wine. The 12 disciples drank wine. Except maybe Judas, who ended up hanging himself so goes to show you..........

Um, I don't think Jesus drank wine at the last supper. Maybe during other times, but not at that time. Anyhow, the debate goes on to say that some people believe that the wine that Jesus drank was not fermented (grapejuice), while others believe that it was fermented (alchohol).

So, where is your stance on this, Stelliano?

MARK 14:
23 And he took the cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them: and they all drank of it.

24 And he said unto them, This is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many.

25 Verily I say unto you, I will drink no more of the fruit of the vine, until that day that I drink it new in the kingdom of God.

When they all drank of it, all is referring to the disciples, not Jesus.

Or do you think that I misinterpreted these verses? :scratch:

[st3lliano]

Are you trying to tell me that they did not have wine and that our theology has been misunderstood for 2000 years. I dont think so.... if they wanted to use grape juice in our churches they would so that the issue would not be raised, but they dont because past precedence indicates that we have ALWAYS had wine as symbolics means of Jesus' Blood. Lets not forget that before Jesus made his speech, it can be assumed they ate and drank as if at a party because it was Passover after all.

Also when he says to partake in the sacraments, it means that he also partook. Why? Thats the definition of partake! So when jesus passed around the cup, he didnt stop himself because he wanted to be the example for his disciples to follow!

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by st3lliano
Are you trying to tell me that they did not have wine and that our theology has been misunderstood for 2000 years. I dont think so.... if they wanted to use grape juice in our churches they would so that the issue would not be raised, but they dont because past precedence indicates that we have ALWAYS had wine as symbolics means of Jesus' Blood. Lets not forget that before Jesus made his speech, it can be assumed they ate and drank as if at a party because it was Passover after all.

Also when he says to partake in the sacraments, it means that he also partook. Why? Thats the definition of partake! So when jesus passed around the cup, he didnt stop himself because he wanted to be the example for his disciples to follow!

What?! You openly are claiming that you are making an assumption here. I gave you Biblical verses, not that I always can in my threads. Anyhow, that's beside the point for this debate.
:whip:

[KrazyEuro]

Originally posted by novellation
Romans 10:9, if you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, YOU ARE SAVED"

Are they TRULY saved??? OF COURSE they are TRULY saved....you know WHY??? Because that's what the VERSE says. :wall:

How can you say that the verse you quote promises salvation and than say that some aren't TRULY saved if they do it???

p.s. let us both search after the truth, not human ideas...

novellation, i say this alot, and i wont stop saying it, 'be quick to read and understand but be slow to speak for what you said is obsurd! ...you do not know the hearts of man, so dont go assuming everyone who says they are saved are really saved...dont assume that everyone who says Romans 10:9 and say that they fallow that and thats what they believe are truly believing that!!! you are not God to say who's right and who's not...only God is...so for you to point that out...your false..for me to point out and say "if they are TRULY SAVED" they cant loose their salvation, i believed thats backed up through Romans 10:9.. God knows all mankinds hearts..he knows whos' heart is truly seeking him and who's isnt..for you to make that judgement ....in a sense is claiming that you are the holy of holy's!! the great I AM... to take your last statement, before the P.S part..to answer your question..... i nor any man on earth know if they do it from their heart or just do it to get people of their backs! thats why i hold to the idea of "onced saved, always saved" cus God dont make mistakes...so why would he choose to save you one min and choose to throw you in the pits of hell the next? and so on and so forth continuing that pattern...i dont believe God plays games...he chooses his elect..he already has his chosen people... so they are saved..they cant loose their salvation cus God knows if they are gonna live for Him til the end of time! you dont know if you are gonna live for Him, but he does!

[Archangel]

aha......so I'm drinking then...hehe

[KrazyEuro]

i dont think micheal the 'archangel' ever drank...quit misrepresenting the name!!! :lol2:

[Archangel]

...who said I was michael...?

The Archangel my sn refers to is Tyriel...the angel that taught humans warfare...in the time of Enoh.

hehe...

[KrazyEuro]

wow, i cant believe you just said that :lol2: wow! thats all i can say is wow

[christine7685]

st3lliano.. its believed wine then contained no alcohol.. so stop pointing your finger at Jesus

so it seems like you think drinking is ok.. but you also made sure that we dont jump to the conclusion that you drink.. so why is that? if you dont think its wrong.. why would you care if we thought you drank? would you be ashamed?

and what about proverbs 23:31.. i dunno about anyone else but thats my whole foundation on why i think drinking is wrong.. its the only verse i needed to convince me.. anyways.. God bless guys!

[Nygel]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
[B]novellation, i say this alot, and i wont stop saying it, 'be quick to read and understand but be slow to speak for what you said is obsurd! ...you do not know the hearts of man, so dont go assuming everyone who says they are saved are really saved...dont assume that everyone who says Romans 10:9 and say that they fallow that and thats what they believe are truly believing that!!!

You really should stop repeating that "be quick to read...slow to speak." It is pointless and it's just another way of saying I'M right your WRONG. Do you have any idea how much or little time I have spent thinking about that...and what I wrote? No, you don't so you shouldn't just toss something out there saying I didn't take my time.

Okay and now to get to the IMPORTANT points. First of all it is not ME speaking but the VERSE you pointed to.

Romans 10:9, if you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, YOU ARE SAVED"

KrazyEuro According to the verse that YOU posted what do you have to do to be saved? Two things:

1. believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead
2. confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord.

Okay WHERE am I wrong in my understanding of Romans 10:9? Of course I don't know the hearts of man. And I never said that if someone SAYS they follow Romans 10:9, than they are saved. NO, I said if they do the TWO THINGS STATED above then they are saved. HEY, I'M NOT THE ONE SAYING IT. It is the VERSE saying it. You believe this to be obsurd but yet you are the one holding the view and using this verse numerous times.

you are not God to say who's right and who's not...only God is...so for you to point that out...your false..for me to point out and say "if they are TRULY SAVED" they cant loose their salvation, i believed thats backed up through Romans 10:9.. God knows all mankinds hearts..he knows whos' heart is truly seeking him and who's isnt..for you to make that judgement ....in a sense is claiming that you are the holy of holy's!! the great I AM...

Wait a second, I think I'm beginning to see what you mean. YOU DO NOT BELIEVE ROMANS 10:9!!!! Yes, that is exactly what you are saying. All that I have said is based on Romans 10:9. I have not said that if you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, YOU ARE SAVED...no, I am not the one who said that but GOD through the HOLY BIBLE.

There are only to categories SAVED, and UNsaved. There are not three. Saved, truly saved, and unsaved. Okay so for you to say that there are three categories is wrong.



to take your last statement, before the P.S part..to answer your question..... i nor any man on earth know if they do it from their heart or just do it to get people of their backs! thats why i hold to the idea of "onced saved, always saved" cus God dont make mistakes...so why would he choose to save you one min and choose to throw you in the pits of hell the next? and so on and so forth continuing that pattern...i dont believe God plays games...he chooses his elect..he already has his chosen people... so they are saved..they cant loose their salvation cus God knows if they are gonna live for Him til the end of time! you dont know if you are gonna live for Him, but he does!

:wall: if you believe in your heart that Jesus rose from the dead and confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, you are saved. What are you talking about we don't know if they are doing it from the heart or just for appearances? Did you not read the verse? It says if you believe in your HEART!!!....

Of course God does not make mistakes. Lucifer's rebellion was not a mistake. Adam and Eve's fall from the garden of Eden was not a mistake. And offering salvation to all those that believe in their heart that Jesus rose from the dead and confess with their mouth that Jesus is Lord is not a mistake. God does not choose to throw you into the pit of hell. You do it by your own actions. You are the one who chooses whether you want to serve God or not.

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by christine7685
st3lliano.. its believed wine then contained no alcohol.. so stop pointing your finger at Jesus

so it seems like you think drinking is ok.. but you also made sure that we dont jump to the conclusion that you drink.. so why is that? if you dont think its wrong.. why would you care if we thought you drank? would you be ashamed?

and what about proverbs 23:31.. i dunno about anyone else but thats my whole foundation on why i think drinking is wrong.. its the only verse i needed to convince me.. anyways.. God bless guys!

PROVERBS 23:
19 Listen, my son, and be wise, And direct your heart in the way.
20 Do not be with heavy drinkers of wine, Or with gluttonous eaters of meat;
21 For the heavy drinker and the glutton will come to poverty, And drowsiness will clothe one with rags.
22 Listen to your father who begot you, And do not despise your mother when she is old.
23 Buy truth, and do not sell it, Get wisdom and instruction and understanding.
24 The father of the righteous will greatly rejoice, And he who sires a wise son will be glad in him.
25 Let your father and your mother be glad, And let her rejoice who gave birth to you.
26 Give me your heart, my son, And let your eyes delight in my ways.
27 For a harlot is a deep pit And an adulterous woman is a narrow well.
28 Surely she lurks as a robber, And increases the faithless among men.
29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has contentions? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes?
30 Those who linger long over wine, Those who go to taste mixed wine.
31 Do not look on the wine when it is red, When it sparkles in the cup, When it goes down smoothly;
32 At the last it bites like a serpent And stings like a viper.
33 Your eyes will see strange things And your mind will utter perverse things.
34 And you will be like one who lies down in the middle of the sea, Or like one who lies down on the top of a mast.
35 "They struck me, but I did not become ill; They beat me, but I did not know it. When shall I awake? I will seek another drink."

1. Where does it say that wine contained no alcohol? Wine is made from fermented grapes, and it has other ingredients, such as yeast (I believe) added to help with this fermentation. Maybe other wines have other ingredients added. Are you a wine expert, or does that say so in the Bible?

2. He had to say he didn't drink so that someone like YOU would not go and try to jump to conclusions and judge him.

MAT 7:
4 Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye?
5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

3. Take the whole passage or at least the surrounding verses into context, too. Do not just read one verse and decide your will. The passage talks about becoming addicted to drinking, or going to the extremes, and becoming a drunkard. Notice the parts I bolded for you, so that you can better understand this passage without judgement upon others.

4. This is another very good example of taking a single verse out of context from the whole passage and trying to back up your opinions. Oh, ye, of little faith. Christine, draga, you are building your faith upon the pebbles of sand, not the rock. You will eventually slip on those small pebbles or slip through the sands.

According to you, and your belief of that one verse only, I am allowed to drink any other colored wine besides "red", as long as it is not served in a "cup" (I can drink from a glass or the bottle), and as long as it goes down roughly as opposed to "smoothly". That is the pebble you are building your faith upon.
:wall:

Cheers to Stelliano! :box: Care for a vodka? It is the opposite of all of these descriptions.

[st3lliano]

Now Now no need to defend me because I wont cry :baby: Anyway, I never pointed my finger at Jesus. I used him as an example because He was used ina previous example to prove the a contrary position. I was just trying to show that Jesus did have wine to drink, regardless of whether you thing drinking is a sin or not.

Another thing, my position revolves around the fact that i dont judge people who drink as you have so nicely demonstrated. I am not asking anyone in here to drink, far from it. But I do not want you young children growing up believing everything your mommy and daddy have told you because they dont know everything! Drinking is not wrong, so lets not jump on my back and try to break it with regret!

[KrazyEuro]

dude novellation...the more i listen to you the more dumber i get! no comment on your statements it seems you like to misquote so i aint even gonna argue against your lies!

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
dude novellation...the more i listen to you the more dumber i get! no comment on your statements it seems you like to misquote so i aint even gonna argue against your lies!

Now, now. Instead of becoming dumber in the word of God, either give a good rebuttal of your opinions using properly quoted scripture, or simply tell your partner that you thinks it's a stalemate.
:thfro:

[Archangel]

ok...I gave up drinking...never again will the fermented grape touch my lips...

[Nygel]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
dude novellation...the more i listen to you the more dumber i get! no comment on your statements it seems you like to misquote so i aint even gonna argue against your lies!

:lol2: Oh well :(


What I don't like about the idea of predestination is that it might give someone the idea that they don't have a choice in the matter. If God has already decided who will be saved and who will not be saved from the beginning of time, than no matter what one does if they were not predestined to be saved they cannot be saved.

We know that in real life there are people who get saved and than maybe after years or whatever length of time they stop going to church, reading the Bible, praying,....or doing that actions that are necessary of a Christian. Remember faith without actions is dead.

If you believed in ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED you would say that the person was not TRULY saved. Which to me is just playing with words.

[Nygel]

Originally posted by Archangel
ok...I gave up drinking...never again will the fermented grape touch my lips...

Yaaay, I'm happy for you. But don't forget, to lay off all the other fermented drinks other than grapes ALSO. :tut:

[Ciprian Indries]

It's been interesting following this debate. I agree with those who say that is a sin to drink alcohol. Even if it's one glass without anyone seeing you (ca sa se poticneasca) without getting drunk I want you to remember that you are leaving a door open for Satan. He wil know how to use it. We tend to push the limits. We want to see how close we can get to the edge without falling. Instead of running away from sin like Joseph did in the Old testament we think we can confront our temptations head on. That is a huge mistake. Paul says "fugi de poftele tineretii." That what we should do. We don't have to make it easier for Satan to tempt us.
Also, about the Lords supper, the bible says that they used "rodul vitei". This brings us to the whole discussion about the alcoholic vine and non-alcoholic vine (grape juice). To understand this we have to know the language in which the new testament was written (greek) and also the culture of the time. For a better explanation of this read the articles : "Vinul in timpul noului testament 1 & 2" from "Biblia de studiu pentru o viata deplina" (I think this is the same as the "Full Life Study bible").
And one more thing I want to mention. Alcoholism is a disease. There are alocholics who never took one drink. They will know if they have the disease after they take the first drink. So for those of you who are advising others that it is ok to drink. Thing about it first. They might have this disease and you will be responsible for destroying that person's life. Because for alcoholics one drink is enough.
I just pray that God will speak to you and guide you.
May God bless you all.

[SaintJoe69]

What?! What is this? An alcoholic is one who is suffering from alcoholism.

Alcoholism is defined as: A disorder characterized by the excessive consumption of and dependence on alcoholic beverages, leading to physical and psychological harm and impaired social and vocational functioning.

A disorder is defined as the following: An ailment that affects the function of mind or body. In the case of alcoholics, it is due to the excessive consumption and/or dependence on alcoholic beverages, as stated in the above definition.

"Alcoholics who never took one drink" is like saying "Jesus is a sinner although he never sinned." You are totally contradicting yourself. Jesus and his disciples drank.

I didn't even need this last paragraph to prove this point. I just needed a dictionary to define two words: alcoholism and disorder.

Anything more, and it might have become more intense than necessary. :D

[SaintJoe69]

Novellation, I know this is off the topic, but here's my view on predestination.

The simplest way I can explain predestination is the following:

Predestination is like the earth. If God placed you and me both on one end, the south pole for example, and told us to go and find Santa Claus at the north pole, we would each probably take different routes in order to reach our goal, the north pole. Is that restricting our free will? Of course not. It does not matter if you travel by plane, train, automobiles, or boats. You will eventually get to the north pole, and so would I, even though we freely choose different paths.

The same concept applies for our heavenly goal, which is to be with Jesus. If we are predestined to be with Him, then we will reach our goal, no matter what paths we freely choose for one reason. That reason is because in the beginning, we chose to accept the challenge.

*Question for Novellation: Which path would you take for the original challenge? :scratch:

[KrazyEuro]

if someone has the mindest of thinking they are forced to Love Christ then they are not TRUE christians.the thing you fail to understand is that God knows all...so he knows who's willing to serve him all his days.."to live is Christ to Die is gain" phillipians chapter 1...its easy to say a few words and run on emotions..but how do you know someone is doing it for the Glory of God or just sper of the moment?? you dont..cus you dont know every hearts desires..God does..so its safe to say that once saved always saved..cus God knows who to save..just cus someone says they're saved and later on in life fall into the world...they were never truly saved from before...God wouldnt save someone he knows wont fallow him all his days...example...you recorded a basketball game..lakers vs clippers...cus you didnt have time to watch it cus you were doing thangs...but you heard clippers won by 1 point at the final second...so now you go home with a couple of buddies to watch the game...you guys make bets..you knowing whats gonna happen you bet on the clippers...knowing the clippers are gonna come out victorious...you choose them as your team...and the other 10 members bet on lakers...so the game goes on and the clippers go down by like 20 points at half time...are you gonna forget about the clippers winning by 1 point and focus on what they're doing right now??? NO! knowing they're gonna win you dotn really care what the score is now...you chose them cus you know...your not FORCING them to win...you just know they're gonna win...now vise versa..if you know clippers are gonna looose...are you gonna bet alot ofmoney on them?? knowing they are gonna lose?? i doubt it...thats how God works..he knows what we're gonna do...is he gonna bet on us if he knows we're gonna fail to live for Christ?? hope that made sence...

[christine7685]

HMM.. FIRST OF ALL SAINTJOE... you misunderstood... i never said that verse said anything about wine not containing alcohol... all i meant was that the verse is all i needed to convince me alcohol is something a CHRISTIAN should stay away from... i was talking about 2 different things and you were confused : ) and second of all... hmmm.. wow.. werent YOU the one that also said a few posts before mine that it is believed that the wine was not fermented???? i wasnt saying that i KNOW FOR A FACT that it contained NO alcohol.. did i? NOPE i said the exact same thing you did.. its argued or it is believed it contained no alcohol.. dang i just think you need to make up your mind kiddo... seems to me like youre contradicting yourself just so you can get an arguement going with someone else... growww up

2nd of all.. i wasnt judging him hun.. i was questioning him.. i didnt tell him he was an alcoholic and going to hell.. i questioned why he said what he said.. get it? learn the difference... sorry to st3lliano if he was offended.. but like he said he doesnt need you defending him

ok and last but probably not least.. the verse is an EXAMPLE... God gives tons of examples in the bible of things like betrayal, dishonesty, and any other thing you can think of.. but he doesnt give 20 million different scenarios for each thing.. hes not gonna say "ok so heres the story about the girl that cheated on her husband with his brother but then im gonna tell you the one about the daughter that cheated on her husband with his dad and the one about the mom who cheated on her husband with his son and you know what im just gonna go ahead and give you EVERY scenario possible".. you know what he means.. stop making up a million different stories behind it and finding EXCUSES.. there was a simple discription.. hes not gonna go and describe every single wine or beer or whatever out there.. lets use our BRAINS

[christine7685]

But I do not want you young children growing up believing everything your mommy and daddy have told you because they dont know everything! Drinking is not wrong, so lets not jump on my back and try to break it with regret!

first of all.. im not a child, youre 3 years older hun.. youre still growing up JUSTTTTT like me : )

hmmm and dont put yourself up against my mommy and daddy.. because believe me.. you dont know half as much as they do...you dont know everything either.. you havent even lived half as long as they have.. so dont put yourself ahead of them : )

[Ciprian Indries]

Saint joe69 said:
"What?! What is this? An alcoholic is one who is suffering from alcoholism.

Alcoholism is defined as: A disorder characterized by the excessive consumption of and dependence on alcoholic beverages, leading to physical and psychological harm and impaired social and vocational functioning.

A disorder is defined as the following: An ailment that affects the function of mind or body. In the case of alcoholics, it is due to the excessive consumption and/or dependence on alcoholic beverages, as stated in the above definition.

"Alcoholics who never took one drink" is like saying "Jesus is a sinner although he never sinned." You are totally contradicting yourself. Jesus and his disciples drank.

I didn't even need this last paragraph to prove this point. I just needed a dictionary to define two words: alcoholism and disorder.

Anything more, and it might have become more intense than necessary. "

Actually if you look beyond the dictionary you will see that most specialists refer to alcoholism as a disease. They define it as a disease and they refer to genetic predispositon to become an alcoholic.

[Nygel]

SAINTJOE69 SAID: That reason is because in the beginning, we chose to accept the challenge.

Are you trying to tell me that you accepted a challenge before you existed?

[Nygel]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
if someone has the mindest of thinking they are forced to Love Christ then they are not TRUE christians.the thing you fail to understand is that God knows all...so he knows who's willing to serve him all his days.."to live is Christ to Die is gain" phillipians chapter 1...its easy to say a few words and run on emotions..but how do you know someone is doing it for the Glory of God or just sper of the moment?? you dont..cus you dont know every hearts desires..God does..so its safe to say that once saved always saved..

Forced love is rape. God cannot force anyone to love him. I agree that God does know all. I hold the view that people choose to love God and people also choose to rebel against God.

If someone becomes saved, does everything the Bible tells them to do, beleives, has faith, loves his enemies, EVERYTHING. Lets say they are perfect little angels for 40 years. Than several hours before they die of cancer they REJECT God and everything he stands for. What are you saying right now...your thinking they weren't TRULY saved. Which makes no sense.

Once saved always saved - - Sounds very misleading. It makes everyone's salvation who turn away from God later in life a FALSE salvation. And I don't know how anyone could take it upon themselves to say that someone was not TRULY saved. And that is what the ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED view seems to me. You say that all those who later in life turn away from God weren't saved. They did it just for "giggles" emotions...whatever. Well how can you know that since you do not know their heart? If God through the Holy Spirit said that if you do this and this you will be saved than how can you say that someone who did those things were not saved?

cus God knows who to save..just cus someone says they're saved and later on in life fall into the world...they were never truly saved from before...God wouldnt save someone he knows wont fallow him all his days...example...you recorded a basketball game..lakers vs clippers...cus you didnt have time to watch it cus you were doing thangs...but you heard clippers won by 1 point at the final second...so now you go home with a couple of buddies to watch the game...you guys make bets..you knowing whats gonna happen you bet on the clippers...knowing the clippers are gonna come out victorious...you choose them as your team...and the other 10 members bet on lakers...so the game goes on and the clippers go down by like 20 points at half time...are you gonna forget about the clippers winning by 1 point and focus on what they're doing right now??? NO! knowing they're gonna win you dotn really care what the score is now...you chose them cus you know...your not FORCING them to win...you just know they're gonna win...now vise versa..if you know clippers are gonna looose...are you gonna bet alot ofmoney on them?? knowing they are gonna lose?? i doubt it...thats how God works..he knows what we're gonna do...is he gonna bet on us if he knows we're gonna fail to live for Christ?? hope that made sence... [/B]

Why wouldn't God save someone who later of their own choice decided to leave God? I mean he created Lucifer who of his own free choice left God. And he also created Adam and Eve who later of their own free choice left God. And God surely bet a lot of *money* on Adam and Eve, even though he knew full well that they will disobey him later.

No one just wakes up one day and says 'I AM SAVED' They don't get the idea from themselves, the Bible says "If you.....etc...etc...you are saved" so taking that concept from the Bible it would make sense to say "I am saved" why? Because the Bible says I am. And who is the Final author of the Bible...God! So in other words God says in his word that you are saved. So for anyone to say that they do not have a genuine salvation goes against what the Bible teaches.

[Archangel]

Originally posted by novellation
Yaaay, I'm happy for you. But don't forget, to lay off all the other fermented drinks other than grapes ALSO. :tut:



dang ...I knew it wasn't as easy as it seemed...hmmm

[Archangel]

also...this juju about pre-destination is malarky.... I will not accept that God would be so petty and cruel as to give someone life to life on this earth and then to end up in Hell at death... What kinda half-witted missconcepted idea is that

[KrazyEuro]

hey novel...adam and lucifer were before Jesus Christ said i am the way the truth and life...so you cant really use them as an example...use the guard in Romans that saw first hand Gods work and he asked Paul what must he do to get saved..and paul said believe...and the bible goes on to say..he was saved for he "believed" ..its one thing to say that you believe...its another thing to 'truly' believe..why is that so hard for you to understand? or are you just disgreeing wtih me cus you think you can prove everyone wrong even though they're right?

[HomegirlHere]

OKAY ITS AS SIMPLE AS THIS...U DRINK BEER OR ANY KIND OF ALCOHOL BEVERAGE AND UR GOING TO HELL! GOT IT?
WHY WOULD U WANT TO DRINK ANYWAYZ IT DOES NUTHIN FOR YA!

[Archangel]

and another thing...if this thing about the "Elect" was true than a person who was predestined to be saved can do whatever he wants right...? smoke drink fornication kill...whatever...cause he will be saved anyway...that is crap bro...

and believing is not enough...for even demons believe and are afraid of Jesus...you have to carry your cross to the end...

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by christine7685
first of all.. im not a child, youre 3 years older hun.. youre still growing up JUSTTTTT like me : )

hmmm and dont put yourself up against my mommy and daddy.. because believe me.. you dont know half as much as they do...you dont know everything either.. you havent even lived half as long as they have.. so dont put yourself ahead of them : )

Ok, I have a small break in the from the big debates to place this comment into this little debate.

Age does not make a person wise. How many times have I said that on here, yet people are hard of hearing... or in this case, reading.

To think that you are old and wise only makes you an old fool. :D
That's what some little grasshopper told me.

Oh, and just so I keep up with the topic, I will be getting back to the drinking subject... but I will pause here because I am thirsty and need to get a drink.
:twak:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by HomegirlHere
OKAY ITS AS SIMPLE AS THIS...U DRINK BEER OR ANY KIND OF ALCOHOL BEVERAGE AND UR GOING TO HELL! GOT IT?
WHY WOULD U WANT TO DRINK ANYWAYZ IT DOES NUTHIN FOR YA!

How do you know? Is this from experience? Or from what your parents told you from their experience? Or is it in the Bible?

Hmmm... :scratch: "Don't drink and park - accidents cause people."

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by novellation
Forced love is rape.

Confucious says: "Rape impossible: Woman run faster with skirt up, than Man with pants down."
:D

*Disclaimer: This joke was added to ease the tension in some of these debates.

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by Ciprian Indries
Saint joe69 said:
"What?! What is this? An alcoholic is one who is suffering from alcoholism.

Alcoholism is defined as: A disorder characterized by the excessive consumption of and dependence on alcoholic beverages, leading to physical and psychological harm and impaired social and vocational functioning.

A disorder is defined as the following: An ailment that affects the function of mind or body. In the case of alcoholics, it is due to the excessive consumption and/or dependence on alcoholic beverages, as stated in the above definition.

"Alcoholics who never took one drink" is like saying "Jesus is a sinner although he never sinned." You are totally contradicting yourself. Jesus and his disciples drank.

I didn't even need this last paragraph to prove this point. I just needed a dictionary to define two words: alcoholism and disorder.

Anything more, and it might have become more intense than necessary. "

Actually if you look beyond the dictionary you will see that most specialists refer to alcoholism as a disease. They define it as a disease and they refer to genetic predispositon to become an alcoholic.

I am sorry to break the news to you about this, but the Dictionary is what all of these "specialists" use for their research and wording. The dictionary is here for us to have some kind of standard for words. Granted, it changes all the time due to people like "specialists" coming up with new meanings for the same old words. That is where slang comes from.

If these "specialists" believe that alcoholism is a disease, then we can say murderers, rapists, atheists, and everyone else has some sort of disease, whether it is known to them or not. Why do I say this? Because you are basing this on the "defective gene" theory. Show me ONE person who does not have some sort of defective gene, and I will tell you that Jesus is here for His second coming.

Genetic predisposition: Increased susceptibility to a particular disease due to the presence of one or more gene mutations, and/or a combination of alleles (haplotype), not necessarily abnormal, that is associated with an increased risk for the disease, and/or a family history that indicates an increased risk for the disease.

Based on this definition alone, it just means you have an increased risk, possibly due to a family history. I can see that people will try to use this as a "loophole" in the judicial system now, just as "temporary insanity" gets many criminals off the hook.

Should I use scipture for you? John 9:

1 As he went along, he saw a man blind from birth.
2 His disciples asked him, "Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?"
3 "Neither this man nor his parents sinned," said Jesus, "but this happened so that the work of God might be displayed in his life.

This is an example of genetic defect, not genetic predisposition. These "specialists" are thinking along the same lines that the apostles first thought. You are an alcoholic, because your parents probably were.
:D

[Ceci]

all i got to say to this is A BIGGGGGGGG NOOOOOOOO.

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by novellation
Are you trying to tell me that you accepted a challenge before you existed?

No, no, no! :tut: We both accepted the challenge to go the north pole to find Santa Claus. :D

[MaRK!]

i had to be on a special diet at one point that called for consumption of such things as red meat, for example, and red wine. two or three glasses a day, was the recommendation. hmm.. looks like alcohol has its uses after all.

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by christine7685
HMM.. FIRST OF ALL SAINTJOE... you misunderstood... i never said that verse said anything about wine not containing alcohol... all i meant was that the verse is all i needed to convince me alcohol is something a CHRISTIAN should stay away from... i was talking about 2 different things and you were confused : ) and second of all... hmmm.. wow.. werent YOU the one that also said a few posts before mine that it is believed that the wine was not fermented???? i wasnt saying that i KNOW FOR A FACT that it contained NO alcohol.. did i? NOPE i said the exact same thing you did.. its argued or it is believed it contained no alcohol.. dang i just think you need to make up your mind kiddo... seems to me like youre contradicting yourself just so you can get an arguement going with someone else... growww up

Sorry, draga. I got sidetracked. I wanted to respond to this earlier, but my computer keeps crashing it's hard drive.
:wall:
Ok, Christine, draga. I broke this up to make it easier for you. I wanted to get back to this response, but I got sidetracked with the other little comments, so I swatted them like flies.
:twak:
If I misunderstood you, then you didn't have to say "you meant" this, and that you were "talking about 2 different things."
There is a reason that I use this little QUOTE function when debating an opponent. It shows people that I am not twisting their words around, and that I am not confused about what they have written.

If I said earlier in one of my postings that "wine is not fermented," then it was in reference to Banateanca who believes that. She believes that the wine that Jesus drank was not fermented, and that it was just grape juice.
I did not claim that you were an expert on wine. I merely asked you. I highly doubt that you are an expert at anything. That is a side note.

I will tell you this parable, the Parable of the Great Grape.

You see a bunch of grapes, and you choose only to pick one grape, something that looks good in your eyes. Because you did not take into account the bunch of grapes as a whole, you choke on that grape. You thought it was a good one, but it turned out to be a bad one. You slowyly die, not knowing the meaning behind the bunch of grapes.

I pointed out, and I will gladly point out again, that you are basing your decision upon ONE verse, which you should not do. No, you will not go to hell for this, but you are not making a sound judgement call, either. Again, you are building your faith on the pebbles of the sand (poor judgement), as opposed to the rock on which it should be built.
You have a passion about the word, God's word. However, you failed to take the whole passage into context. You did not understand the real message of the passage because you concentrated on only ONE verse.

2nd of all.. i wasnt judging him hun.. i was questioning him.. i didnt tell him he was an alcoholic and going to hell.. i questioned why he said what he said.. get it? learn the difference... sorry to st3lliano if he was offended.. but like he said he doesnt need you defending him.

It was the way you had questioned him. Yes, I don't believe you passed direct judgement on him, but I am sure that you wanted to when you mentioned the statement about "jumping to conclusions".
Yes, I am aware that Stelliano needs no defense from me. He is highly capable of dealing with someone like you, especially since you are close to three years older than he is. I found you comments to be amusing, and I wanted to put my five cents in (due to the rate of economic inflation).
Why? Because I like your passion. I love it when you get angry. It gives me a break from the real debates with Novellation and KrazyEuro.

ok and last but probably not least.. the verse is an EXAMPLE... God gives tons of examples in the bible of things like betrayal, dishonesty, and any other thing you can think of.. but he doesnt give 20 million different scenarios for each thing.. hes not gonna say "ok so heres the story about the girl that cheated on her husband with his brother but then im gonna tell you the one about the daughter that cheated on her husband with his dad and the one about the mom who cheated on her husband with his son and you know what im just gonna go ahead and give you EVERY scenario possible".. you know what he means.. stop making up a million different stories behind it and finding EXCUSES.. there was a simple discription.. hes not gonna go and describe every single wine or beer or whatever out there.. lets use our BRAINS

Are you comparing yourself with God now? *Question, not fact.
Of course God gives us examples in the Bible, that's why I want him and you to quote the scripture correctly.
Of course I know what he was talking about. You are under the assumption that everyone on royouth is a christian or that everyone reads the Bible. That is your mistake.

I encourage you to continue this debate and "use your BRAIN" by finding better scripture to back up your beliefs on why you believe drinking is a sin.
Until then, you know I love you. :D

[st3lliano]

Originally posted by novellation
:lol2: Oh well :(


What I don't like about the idea of predestination is that it might give someone the idea that they don't have a choice in the matter. If God has already decided who will be saved and who will not be saved from the beginning of time, than no matter what one does if they were not predestined to be saved they cannot be saved.

We know that in real life there are people who get saved and than maybe after years or whatever length of time they stop going to church, reading the Bible, praying,....or doing that actions that are necessary of a Christian. Remember faith without actions is dead.

If you believed in ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED you would say that the person was not TRULY saved. Which to me is just playing with words.

As an avid believer in predestination, i would have to disagree with you. To me there is nothing wrong with thinking that God knows who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. If God knows this, then that means some people were not meant to be saved. And you are right, if you were not meant to be saved then there is nothing you can do to change that.

However, when you think about it, we (humans) can not know who is and who is not saved, so we must continue spreading the gospel regardless of whether it is productive or not. We should not live with fear about our salvation because of our faith. What do you think about that? (not that this is actually the thread for this or anything) :lol:

[christine7685]

mark_m.. my dad had to drink alcohol when he had cancer and was on treatment.. he was only given the amount he needed.. which was never enough to make him drunk so dont jump on me for that... so yes alcohol does have its uses.. but to drink it socially just BECAUSE.. is wrong.. (just like taking any medication just because would be wrong).. anyways.. youre testing yourself and your limits.. youre putting yourself in a bad position where you can be tempted.. and thats when its wrong.
Matthew 26:41
"Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak." (and YES i know the story behind this verse and that it has NOTHING to do with alcohol.. but its the LITTLE things behind the BIG story that need to be taken into consideration)

saintjoe.. gosh you always have the smallest most irrelavant things to say... i was not trying to make it sound like my parents are wise because theyre older.. i was pointing out to st3lliano that just because he is 3 years older then me.. doesnt make him any wiser then me.. or my parents... since he seemed to be implying that he was. second, my parents ARE wise.. and the reason why, is because in everything they do they seek answers from God.

PROVERBS 2:1-22
"My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; 2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; 3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; 4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; 5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding."

and if you want to read the rest look into your bible im not gonna post the entire thing.. so.. my point.. THAT is why i listen to my MOMMY and DADDY and thats why they are WISE. they seek answers from the Lord and they shed their wisdom upon their precious little children which would me ME :bfro:
get it? goood! GOD BLESS and remember i love you all!!!!!!!!!

[Ciprian Indries]

Actually the specialists who I was talking abbout are from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, American Council on Alcoholism, and other renowned instutions that deal with kind of a problem. These are not the ideas of somebody who thinks they know everything and with whom you are wasting time if you are debating. I don't like debate for the sake of debate. This is a very serious issue and it seems some people take it to lightly.

[st3lliano]

Originally posted by Archangel
also...this juju about pre-destination is malarky.... I will not accept that God would be so petty and cruel as to give someone life to life on this earth and then to end up in Hell at death... What kinda half-witted missconcepted idea is that

Before either Jacob or Esau were born, God placed his "bets" if you wanna call it that. It is written "For Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated" Romans 9:13. Why would he hate (which by the way means you are going to hell if you are hated by GOD) a man BEFORE he was even born? So how can God do that to Esau? The pharaoh of Egypt who would not listen to Moses, is known as a “vessel for destruction” which God uses to further HIS WILL!!! Well we cannot know what God thinks so maybe you are the half-witted one because you try to understand something far greater than your mind can handle.

[MaRK!]

Originally posted by christine7685
mark_m.. my dad had to drink alcohol when he had cancer and was on treatment.. he was only given the amount he needed.. which was never enough to make him drunk so dont jump on me for that...

lol im nOt "jumpin on you" grLy! i didnt even know u were iN this convo.
..and i totally undertand what your dad went through.

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by Ciprian Indries
Actually the specialists who I was talking abbout are from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, American Council on Alcoholism, and other renowned instutions that deal with kind of a problem. These are not the ideas of somebody who thinks they know everything and with whom you are wasting time if you are debating.

I could actually care less where they work. There are many agencies out there, some that are run by the government and others that are privately run. This does not make them any more believable than anybody else in my opinion. Granted, I give them the respect that they supposedly have earned, but I do not take what they say to be any more factual than what I can create for myself.

LK 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.

Since this is a christian forum, I will have to say that scripture is stronger than the medicine or doctrine of man. If I could not find something in scripture regarding the subject, then I can make educated guesses using opinions from experts or "specialists". As I have stated before, they are causing "loopholes" not only in the judicial system, but they are also going against the Bible.

If people are going to call alcoholism a disease, then they are going to do the same thing about homosexuality, which they already do. This kind of thinking, by calling these poor choices in lifestyles a disease, is the reason people think that there is nothing wrong with it. Soon, everything will be considered a disease, and people will think they can get away with contradicting the Bible because it has become so.
:tut:

[st3lliano]

DOH! by mentioning your mommy and daddy, i was not claiming that they are not wise, but some things they do not understand, regardless of how old they are. Drinking is one of those issues where your mommy and daddy can not determine if it is good for you or not. My parents dont think i should have long war, but i wear it because i like it. Am i going to hell for having long hair? (watch your response lest you get caught with being judgmental hehe) I just dont feel that people who have no experience on the subject should be so opposed to it unless they KNOW the other side.

and believe you me that 3 years can make a HUGE difference in terms of maturity, wisdom, yada yada. I used to think just like you when i was your age, but i got older and that is what made the difference in how i view many issues. so yes you may be younger, but that does not make you similar in maturity, just like i dont claim to have the maturity of your parents. I just know i am independent from my parents in they way i think!

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by Ciprian Indries
Actually the specialists who I was talking abbout are from the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, American Council on Alcoholism, and other renowned instutions that deal with kind of a problem. These are not the ideas of somebody who thinks they know everything and with whom you are wasting time if you are debating. I don't like debate for the sake of debate. This is a very serious issue and it seems some people take it to lightly.

Too late. I already quoted your original thoughts on debate. :twak:

[Ciprian Indries]

O.k. SaintJoe, let's leave the specialists aside. So, you sustain that the bible allows you to drink?

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by Ciprian Indries
O.k. SaintJoe, let's leave the specialists aside. So, you sustain that the bible allows you to drink?

Yes, your honor. I sustain to that fact. Would you like evidence to be ommitted into the court now? Or do you have another witness you would like to call first?
:D

P.S. Christine, draga, your arguments are much better. :clap1:

Don't think that I will still not debate you, though, if I my views are opposed to something that you post.
:box:

[st3lliano]

I can understand how you might not agree with drinking, but my only issue is blind refusal of some of the facts. I mean drunkeness is a sin. We all know that, and I agree with you about that. but do not make the assumption that drinking one glass leads to alcoholism. Also people have mentioned that nothing good can come about from drinking but christine has shown that her father used it for cancer treatment. so it has its uses. however, none of you have used biblical proof to show that drinking in itself, (the act of drinking, not the consequense) is wrong. Why? because the Bible leaves the issue open. It is based on personal weakness that alcoholism and drunkeness become a problem, not the actual drink itself. many people have said that it is the drink which causes us to sin, but that goes hand in hand with the gun argument: guns do not kill people, people kill people. Same with alcohol. Drinks dont make you sin, you sin if you cant handle the drink. How bout that?

[Nygel]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
hey novel...adam and lucifer were before Jesus Christ said i am the way the truth and life...so you cant really use them as an example...use the guard in Romans that saw first hand Gods work and he asked Paul what must he do to get saved..and paul said believe...and the bible goes on to say..he was saved for he "believed" ..its one thing to say that you believe...its another thing to 'truly' believe..why is that so hard for you to understand? or are you just disgreeing wtih me cus you think you can prove everyone wrong even though they're right?

No, I am not trying to prove you wrong just for the fun of it. I just don't agree with the view ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. Okay maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, so I'll try to read about it when I have time.

But I also believe that most people...who consider that they are saved don't know what the phrase ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED really means. So all these people who think that they are saved and that salvation can't be lost...why should they care about following God and all the other stuff if no matter how they act they'll still go to heaven. Yes I know you know that they are wrong. And I know that they are wrong. But if you here the phrase ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED that is what it leads people into believing.

[Nygel]

Originally posted by st3lliano
As an avid believer in predestination, i would have to disagree with you. To me there is nothing wrong with thinking that God knows who is going to heaven and who is going to hell.

Of course there is nothing wrong in thinking that God is all-knowing. Which of course would include knowing the future. I agree completely that God knows who will be in heaven and who will be in hell.

If God knows this, then that means some people were not meant to be saved. And you are right, if you were not meant to be saved then there is nothing you can do to change that.

However, when you think about it, we (humans) can not know who is and who is not saved, so we must continue spreading the gospel regardless of whether it is productive or not. We should not live with fear about our salvation because of our faith. What do you think about that? (not that this is actually the thread for this or anything) :lol:

Well just because God knows that you will not go to heaven does not mean that he does not give YOU the option of choosing to NOT go to heaven. How is God supposed to send you to Hell if you never had a choice in the matter?

Since we will be judged for our actions, I agree that we should live godly lives.

[st3lliano]

Originally posted by novellation
No, I am not trying to prove you wrong just for the fun of it. I just don't agree with the view ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. Okay maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, so I'll try to read about it when I have time.

But I also believe that most people...who consider that they are saved don't know what the phrase ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED really means. So all these people who think that they are saved and that salvation can't be lost...why should they care about following God and all the other stuff if no matter how they act they'll still go to heaven. Yes I know you know that they are wrong. And I know that they are wrong. But if you here the phrase ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED that is what it leads people into believing.

But the question i have to ask you is what makes you say that they were saved initially? you say why should they care to follow God, well from that you make it sound that they were not serious to begin with. just getting baptized and saying a prayer does not make you saved. a true christian would view his walk with God seriously, and would NOT want to do whatever he wants all because he is certain of his salvation. its a simple rule we follow. if we know the lakers are gonna win the game, we still place the bet. If we are true christians, we dont play games with God's grace because we enjoy it. does that make more sense?

[tenazrael]

i'm thirsty... anyone wanna join me and go get something to drink! :D

[MaRK!]

phew, i couldnt wait for somebody to ask! lol

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by novellation
Of course there is nothing wrong in thinking that God is all-knowing. Which of course would include knowing the future. I agree completely that God knows who will be in heaven and who will be in hell.

Well just because God knows that you will not go to heaven does not mean that he does not give YOU the option of choosing to NOT go to heaven. How is God supposed to send you to Hell if you never had a choice in the matter?

Since we will be judged for our actions, I agree that we should live godly lives.

Gosh. I asked the question about predestination, and you never answered. :twak:
:D

So, which route would you use to take you to the north pole to find Santa Claus?

[st3lliano]

Man I give up too. Nothing like a glass of milk to relax with........

[Nygel]

Originally posted by SaintJoe69
Gosh. I asked the question about predestination, and you never answered. :twak:
:D

So, which route would you use to take you to the north pole to find Santa Claus?

I learned it from you. :twak:

Symbolism consumes too much brain power so I choose to steer clear of it.

First of all the question is meaningless since I do not (or cannot) sit back and think on which method I will Find God (which is the key to heaven).

But what about all those destined to Hell? It is not their fault that they weren't given directions to the North Pole.

[SaintJoe69]

The sample was used as an example of predestination, but the question that I posed for you alone was NOT meant to be symbolic. I wanted to see which route you would have chosen to go and find the north pole and Santa Claus. It is a direct question, as is.
:twak:

[st3lliano]

Originally posted by novellation
But what about all those destined to Hell? It is not their fault that they weren't given directions to the North Pole.

They were given directions. See you like to stick people in the box, but that is not ur call to make. God planned for certain ppl to go to hell (i think). Destiny is a man made construct because we still have free will. We get to choose, but God still KNOWS who is going to heaven and who is not. its a conundrum.

[KrazyEuro]

novellation...if you think someone has that mindset of believing that "oh im saved so i can go into the world and forget about God" do you think they were really saved to begin with??? i doubt it....no more comments...

[SaintJoe69]

Novellation, you had better get a start. Felix is running like a wild cat and already has a lead on you.
:D

[SaintJoe69]

***SIDE NOTE***

There has been a new thread created for the discussion on Predestination. Please maintain the integrity of this thread by keeping focused on the topic.

My apologies for bringing up a new idea in this topic. :wall:

[meesh]

hahaha....that is totally wild.....from drinking to predestination.....lolol. :tom: we romanians are so stubbornly chatty......lol

[KrazyEuro]

ai like your choice of words..STUBBORN!!

[meesh]

haha......i know from experience, bai....

[Archangel]

hehe...banateanca you're too funny...hihi

[SaintJoe69]

What?! What is this talk about stubborn? :eek: I tried to get us back on track. :thfro:

"hahah... i know from experience, bai..."

Is this related to the drinking thread? :laf: ... or is it related to being stubborn? Were you predestined to be stubborn, or to drink?
Hmmm... :scratch:

I think paratrooper drinks. Yep, yep. Somebody ratted him out. :D

[meesh]

predestined to be stubborn.......my dad's side gave it to me. cant help it.....haha lolol

[meesh]

by the way.....just look at my avatar's face. does that look like a drinkin face to you?

lol

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
by the way.....just look at my avatar's face. does that look like a drinkin face to you?

lol

I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but that cat looks as though it has been drinking. It actually appears to be asking for more.
:D Don't be mean to your kitty. Give it more. :thfro:

[st3lliano]

it is a waste to give a drink to a cat......its much better used to run your car!

[meesh]

haha lol........yeah i know my cat looks funny ( by the way......its not really my cat......just a cute picture)
but i choose to believe that this cat is high on ginseng. lolol....i think it reminds me of me.......:ajam:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
haha lol........yeah i know my cat looks funny ( by the way......its not really my cat......just a cute picture)
but i choose to believe that this cat is high on ginseng. lolol....i think it reminds me of me.......:ajam:

Well, I knew it looked high on something. :D

Stelliano, I knew that you had experimented on your cats with alcohol all the time. No wonder they keep running into the walls like wild cats.
:twak:

See what drinking can do to you, if it does that to a cat? Don't drink and drive.

Do one or the other. :D

[KrazyEuro]

this thread is called "drinking a sin" ..and for some reason..people assumed it was talking about alcohol..now the people that got convicted and felt like sticking up for why it 'isnt' a sin...thats gotta tell you something...why jump to the conclusion that drinkin is automatically assocaited with alcohol..i almost thought it was referring to soda ...cus that can ruin your kidneys....hmmmmm :bfro:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
this thread is called "drinking a sin" ..and for some reason..people assumed it was talking about alcohol..now the people that got convicted and felt like sticking up for why it 'isnt' a sin...thats gotta tell you something...why jump to the conclusion that drinkin is automatically assocaited with alcohol..i almost thought it was referring to soda ...cus that can ruin your kidneys....hmmmmm :bfro:

Hmmm... you noticed that, too, huh? It was the same way in that other thread about the Big Oh. It derailed before it even took off. Amazing how people ask a general question, and suddenly, the question is all about sin.
:wall:

[KrazyEuro]

i promised myself i wont try to make it a habit, but i will step in the middle and concour with sainty again:argue:

[whoRu]

Originally posted by SaintJoe69
Hmmm... you noticed that, too, huh? It was the same way in that other thread about the Big Oh. It derailed before it even took off. Amazing how people ask a general question, and suddenly, the question is all about sin.
:wall:

what big oh?? :scratch:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by JoshCosa
what big oh?? :scratch:

The Big Oh was a thread that asked a very vague question. Only a handful of members participated in the discussion before it was yanked.

The first response to the thread took it down the wrong path. I made a valid point at the end of the thread, before it disappeared, regarding the way people think. For some people, there thinking is on a one way track.
:tut:

Too bad you missed out. I still think the points were valid. :D

[KrazyEuro]

what wsa the question?

[KrazyEuro]

You and your sons are not to drink wine or other fermented drink whenever you go into the Tent of Meeting, or you will die. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come (Leviticus 10:9).

[SaintJoe69]

The Big Oh asked about itself, and whether or not it was a sin in itself. :scratch:

[SaintJoe69]

Oh, and no, drinking is not a sin. It is merely an act. I know, they both have three letters in them, but do not confuse the two.
:D

[KrazyEuro]

DRINKING IS A SIN!!!!

You and your sons are not to drink wine or other fermented drink whenever you go into the Tent of Meeting, or you will die. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come (Leviticus 10:9).

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
DRINKING IS A SIN!!!!

You and your sons are not to drink wine or other fermented drink whenever you go into the Tent of Meeting, or you will die. This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come (Leviticus 10:9).

This is old school... besides, let me see if this is mathematically possible.

DRINKING=SIN

Nope. There goes the first principle of logic. :D

[meesh]

hahaha joe.....what a riot.

krazy.....i do like that verse though........

[SaintJoe69]

Hmmm... do I need to dig into the archives of this section, too, so that I can find some other things to talk about? It seems that the debates continue to run around in circles, or that we just tend to veer off the topics due to the fact that the topic has been beaten to a pulp.

I think I did a good job of digging up a whole new page of old topics in the the Let Loose section. :D

[KrazyEuro]

i donno all i see is that you choose to reject the word and use your own logics to see what sin is instead of seeing what the word has to say about it.... :bfro:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
i donno all i see is that you choose to reject the word and use your own logics to see what sin is instead of seeing what the word has to say about it.... :bfro:

Do not use sword against sword. I will find scripture from the Old Testament that will contradict what Jesus redefined in the New Testament, if that is your will. Then which will YOU choose to believe? The word of God is to be taken as a whole. It is not a supplement to your diet.
:tut:

[KrazyEuro]

ok..show me a scriptural proof that shows in the bible that jesus drank and he thinks its ok..and then i'll believe it :bfro:..dont show me scriptures where people drank..show me where Jesus did and he says its ok...cus the bible says be immitators of Jesus not of the world.. :bfro:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
ok..show me a scriptural proof that shows in the bible that jesus drank and he thinks its ok..and then i'll believe it :bfro:..dont show me scriptures where people drank..show me where Jesus did and he says its ok...cus the bible says be immitators of Jesus not of the world.. :bfro:

I concur. :thfro:

Although this is not what I said I would show to you, you ask me of another thing. :scratch:

[KrazyEuro]

Originally posted by SaintJoe69
Do not use sword against sword. I will find scripture from the Old Testament that will contradict what Jesus redefined in the New Testament, if that is your will. Then which will YOU choose to believe? The word of God is to be taken as a whole. It is not a supplement to your diet.
:tut:

:scratch:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
:scratch:

This is so much cheating. You have to at least write something. :whip:

[KrazyEuro]

i apologize i should've said... HMMMM :scratch:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
i apologize i should've said... HMMMM :scratch:

Hmmm.... I'm going to print these words out and frame them up on my wall. It's probably the only time that I will see them.
:whip:

Man, I'm so tired. It feels like a hangover. :wall: :tom:

[KrazyEuro]

:scratch: drunkness?

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
:scratch: drunkness?

Yes. Isn't this what the thread is about? Or are we not allowed to stem out the question a little? Drink. Drinking. Drunk. Drunkeness, as you put it. Hmmm...
:scratch:

[KrazyEuro]

why do everybody associate the word "drinking" with getting "drunk" :scratch:

[meesh]

hmmmm...i started this thread....so i have to apologize for not being more specific. but i did mean about drinking alcohol (even that near-beer stuff---odouls).

but i think it was krazy....you're right about that soda thingy. well....its that caffeine that is really bad on your kidneys......cause the caffeine....( as well as smoking or animal protein) pulls calcium directly from your bones which causes the formation of kidney stones in your kidneys.

by the way....passing a kidney stone thru your urinary tract is known to be as painful if not more painful than giving birth. yeah........really bad.....like average of 8-10 hours of excruciating pain.

krazy, how did you learn of this? you a nurse or somethin?

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
why do everybody associate the word "drinking" with getting "drunk" :scratch:

Well, not the word itself. We are referring to drinking alcohol. I merely showed the different phases of getting drunk. You can not get drunk unless you begin with a drink. Not that beginning with a drink will actually lead to drunkeness.
:D

[KrazyEuro]

i drank water last night and it didnt lead to getting drunk, confused :scratch:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
i drank water last night and it didnt lead to getting drunk, confused :scratch:

Hmmm... maybe you missed what I said, or you chose to ignore it, as usual.

Originally posted by me
Well, not the word itself. We are referring to drinking alcohol. I merely showed the different phases of getting drunk. You can not get drunk unless you begin with a drink. Not that beginning with a drink will actually lead to drunkeness.

[christine7685]

yeah... i agree with Krazyeuro.. what a freakin smart kid.. i dont know who the heck he is but i like him... and saintjoe where are your verses???? i wanna see you back up your claim.. and not just with your own logics like krazy said.. i want you to show us some solid BIBLICAL proof

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by christine7685
yeah... i agree with Krazyeuro.. what a freakin smart kid.. i dont know who the heck he is but i like him... and saintjoe where are your verses???? i wanna see you back up your claim.. and not just with your own logics like krazy said.. i want you to show us some solid BIBLICAL proof

Go back and read the rest of the thread, then. Vrei bataei? :box:

I refuse to repeat myself to lazy people such as you who do not wish to read an entire thread, and then come in at the end of a discussion to put your petty penny thoughts in.
:D

[KrazyEuro]

:lol2: i donno sainty, i dont even know this christine from portland girl, and she agree's with me...thats gotta tell you something!!! :bfro: i donno what but something!! :bfro: she's soo freakin smart herself like woah! :lol2:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
:lol2: i donno sainty, i dont even know this christine from portland girl, and she agree's with me...thats gotta tell you something!!! :bfro: i donno what but something!! :bfro: she's soo freakin smart herself like woah! :lol2:

The only time she sounds smart is when her mouth is closed. It's the same as when you can tell if a politician is telling a lie, then his/her mouth is open.
:D

[KrazyEuro]

yah that was prety harsh dude... "dont let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth, only that which helps builds others up" i forgot from what book i got that from, or who actually said it... oh yah i remember...Jesus said it...musta slipped my mind! ... pocaiestate! be more respectful with your choice of wording :bfro:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
yah that was prety harsh dude... "dont let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouth, only that which helps builds others up" i forgot from what book i got that from, or who actually said it... oh yah i remember...Jesus said it...musta slipped my mind! ... pocaiestate! be more respectful with your choice of wording :bfro:

I'm trying to build her up by letting her know that she should think before "speaking". I get the same on my end, why not give the same advice that I am given?

Yes, it might have been slightly harsh, but she's a big girl. She can handle it. She's been in a debate with me before.
:thfro: