eating pork, shrimp,...is it bad? a sin??

[juliett]

I WANTED TO ASK YOU GUYS .....IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IT NAMES MANY TYPES OF ANIMALS THAT ARE FORBIDEN TO EAT,.....IS THIS STILL AN ACTIVE LAW:confused: .....IF IT ISNT WHERE IN THE NT DOES IT SAY THAT IT IS NOW OK TO EAT THESE ANIMALS ? :confused: :confused: :confused: ??? I NEED SOME HELP YOU GUYS SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER :help:

[Scared of Sarmale]

Mark 7:18

So He said to them, "Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?"[7] 20And He said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23All these evil things come from within and defile a man."

[Credinta]

Also read Romans 7:6, it talks about how our covenant with Jesus is more important than the old rules. I asked the same question too, a few months ago.

[matty]

Although I agree with Credinta and Scared of Sarmale (what a wacky nick), remember, GOD made those rules for a reason!
it is best not to eat pork or shrimp. your body finds it harder to digest pork out of your system, than the other meats, and animals like shark, shrimp or any sea creature that God was referring to that had no fins or scales (Deuteronomy 14:9-10), it's better to stay away from them because some of these animals contain traces of mercury (especially shark), thus not entirely good for your body. i myself, stay clear from them because there are other stuff that taste nice, and are beneficial for you too.

my favourite meats are beef and chicken, and I like red salmon! :)

[meesh]

im not worrying about it.......though i am allergic to both pork and beef.

what i mean about not worrying about it is this. i dont eat any meat....i am vegan.

when God created the world, he gave to adam and eat to eat "every green herb bearing seed and every tree with fruit bearing seed". so........green stuff....plants. even the animals were vegetarian.

then, when we get to heaven, the same will be our menu. cause it says that nothing will ever die in heaven. it says that"they shall not kill again on my holy mountain." i think it is in isaiah...like the last 2-3 chapters, where it talks about the new heavens and the new earth....about new jerusalem......where the lamb and lion shall sit together peacefully. why peacefully? cause the carnal nature will be gone.

so my decision is to go ahead and get used to the diet. i used to weigh like 103 lbs. at 5'4"......now i am 125 lbs at the same height.....and i am not fat. in fact...people still think i am way too skinny and they wont believe how much i weigh till i show them on the scale. and its not like i work out or anything. but i should.

i have much more to say to this. the new testament says that food should be sanctified by the word of God and by prayer. yes....we should pray over our food, but what does sanctified by the word of God mean? it means look to see if God recommends it. some people say that not eating the stuff was only in the old testament.

but if you read again in isaiah where it talks about heaven and the new earth. it says that God will not allow those who eat pork and know that it is not good for them, yet they still think they are holy......he will not allow them in heaven, but that he will destroy them...burn them up. read it for yourselves....it is mentioned twice in Isaiah 65-66.

chicken, beef, salmon, turkey, fish(with scales and fins only), even locusts are clean and good to eat. why? cause these animals are not carnivores by nature. they are vegetarian....therefore healthy. the other animals are carnivores and scavangers. they are unclean, because they harbor diseases in their bodies. they can live with the diseases, but we cant.

by the way.....pigs have a little escape hole on the back of one of their back legs, that lets out poison. this is besides their excrementory hole...(put nicely).....cause pigs cant and dont sweat. so they have no way to get rid of toxins except thru that hole.........mmmmm how do you like ham now? lolol

i have a joke with some of my friends......when they have ham and eggs......we call it "pig butt and chicken abortion...."
lololol .......yeah i know....that sounds disgusting...but that is what it is. lol

[Nygel]

I like my ham just fine. So banateanca you believe that what Isaiah said in the Old Testament is more important or has more authority than what Jesus Christ said in the New Testament? Jesus Christ is the highest authority. I'm sure you already know that.

If you are a vegan that's fine. But please be careful in not making others lose their faith by them falsely believing that they have to become vegans or vegetarians.

[NeXuS_21]

pork & shrimps make u fat....don't eat them :(

[Nygel]

everything that has calories makes you fat.

[baller3067]

no its not b/c Jesus said that anything that passed though your body is clean (so you can eat anything) only what comes out of your mouth to other people

so its ok + shrimp is my fav.

[benwin]

Romans 14:14 "As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself."

Romans 14:17 "For the kingdom of good is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit."

Romans 14:20 "All food is clean, but it is wrong for a man to eat anything that causes someone else to stumble."

[MaRK!]

thx ben, for supporting our taste for steak and seafood!:)

[romoqueen]

ok .. i dont know bout you guys but pork and sea food rOcK!!! haha. and AngelofFreedom .. if you put it that way ..EVERYTHING gets you fat. look at cows .. all they eat is grass .. and look how fat they are. i dont think it matters what you eat .. just how much of it you eat .. if that made sence. aight .. im out. gbu.

[tenazrael]

lol yes its totally ok to eat meat and because it was one way in the old testament doesn't mean anything! and by the way.... eating in heaven.... i dunno if some of these romanian women are gonna enter without bringing some of their sarmale!!!!!:D

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by matty
Although I agree with Credinta and Scared of Sarmale (what a wacky nick), remember, GOD made those rules for a reason!
it is best not to eat pork or shrimp. your body finds it harder to digest pork out of your system, than the other meats, and animals like shark, shrimp or any sea creature that God was referring to that had no fins or scales (Deuteronomy 14:9-10), it's better to stay away from them because some of these animals contain traces of mercury (especially shark), thus not entirely good for your body. i myself, stay clear from them because there are other stuff that taste nice, and are beneficial for you too.

my favourite meats are beef and chicken, and I like red salmon! :)

Hey, you just said to stay away from sea creatures, especially the ones with scales. Doesn't red salmon have scales, like other fish? Or is that some special breed? :sly:

I just eat fruit, because that's all they had in the garden "in the beginning." :D

Occassionally, I'll sneak off that diet and have some pork or shrimp eggrolls. Mmmmmm. :tut:

[matty]

saint joe... read that passage in the bible: Deuteronomy 14:9-10

it is ok to eat fish that has BOTH scales and fins. (which is what salmon has, along with bream, mullet, trout, redfin). but what God was referring to are sea creatures that have one or the other, not BOTH. read that passage. I made a poll vote before that eating pork or shrimp is NOT a sin, and other clever people explained why. As for myself I choose to stay clear of them and I explained why in a previous post.

shark has fins, but no scales
shrimps have scales but no fins

salmon has BOTH fins and scales (and it's delicious with salad...mmmmm) :) :) :)

[juliett]

you guys are really helpful, and have some pretty good ideas, i wonder though why the bible doent explain it more, or give more examples. did you kno there are missing books from the bible? i am trying to find them and see what they say....

[Nygel]

Hi Juliett, I'm not sure what you mean by missing books from the Bible. Are you talking about the Apocrypha?

[kramer]

y would it be a sin...only cuz the muslim cant eat it...lol

[61leumas]

that food is good

[65stang]

Originally posted by banateanca

i have a joke with some of my friends......when they have ham and eggs......we call it "pig butt and chicken abortion...."
lololol .......yeah i know....that sounds disgusting...but that is what it is. lol

That is just plain SICK. First of all, abortion is unnatural. to call a chicken laying an egg an abortion is just wrong. mother nature against man made murder. not the same thing. second of all, the eggs that we eat will never hatch. they were never fertilized.

vegetarians dont get all the necessary nutrients that a human body needs. even the structure of our teeth is made for eating meats and vegetables.

there are 4 basic food groups, not 3

[SaintJoe69]

Hmmm, 65stang. So are you telling us that you think that it's ok OR not okay? :scratch:

[Iacob]

Originally posted by juliett
you guys are really helpful, and have some pretty good ideas, i wonder though why the bible doent explain it more, or give more examples. did you kno there are missing books from the bible? i am trying to find them and see what they say....

missing books out of the bible! oh my gosh .... but are we blind to see that God does things and "le duce la bun sfirsti" Psalm 1 tells us that. so then why would he leave this bible incomplete?! Does Revalations not tell us that the bible is complete and that anyone who ADDs or TAKES AWAY from it will be judged according to It. Also remember that the Word is the Holy Spirit. Its says so in John 1;1 "La inceput era Cuvintul, si Cuvintul era cu Dumnezeu, si Cuvintul era Dumenzeu" In other words you are claiming that GOD IS INCOMPLETE I'm sorry to get this harsh but i am deeply offended somone would think that the bible is "incomplete". Where did you hear these things?! From false books and false teachings!!! From Time magazine?! Do you know what these books contain?! They contain stories about how John didn't like Timothy and so made him look bad in the book of John. It says that Jesus had a sexual relationship with Mary Magdalene. They had a child. Are these the books that "complete" the bible? Once again .. sorry if i offended you but i feel very strongly about this.

Back on subject.
Ben stated very well in Romans 14. But we must understand (65Stang) what verse 2 and 3 state.

"Unul crede ca poate sa manince de toate; pe cind altul, care este slab, nu maninca decit verdeturi. Cine maninca sa nu dispretuiasca pe cine nu maninca' si cine nu maninca, sa nu judece pe cine maninca, fiindca Dumnezeu l-a primit"

Verse 10
"Dar pentruce judeci tu pe fratele tau? Sau pentruce dispretuiesti tu pe fratele tau? Caci toti ne vom infatisa inaintea scaunului de judecata al lui Hristos"

Verse 12
"Asa ca fiecare din noi are sa dea socoteala despre sine insus lui Dumnezeu"

The rest is covered pretty well by what ben said on the first page.

>>Emy

[SaintJoe69]

Emy,

I'm going to defend the completeness of that statement.

When someone says that the Bible is incomplete, it does not necessarily mean that they are saying that God is incomplete. It merely could mean that there are certain subjects or matters that are either not clear or are not written about. Why? We do not know. But is it wrong for us to question these things? No! In fact, I think you have questioned some of the "Area 51" spots of the Bible, too.

The Bible is not only a manual for the way we should live for Christ and come to salvation, but it is also a history book. When viewed as a history book, I would agree completely that it is incomplete. If it were complete, it would be continuous up until this day and age, so that people would have no misunderstandings about it due to the times and the fashions of this changing world.

Is the Bible incomplete? It is okay to say that it is. Would I add anything to the Bible? Not in my lifetime. It does not mean that parts not known in the Bible can not be discussed.

:D

[Iacob]

The bible is incomplete only up to the point until you have the Holy Spirit to understand it! If you don't ... you take it just as that ... a history book. The bible is complete for what you need to know. There is even a verse i ran across sunday in church that i can't seem to find again that stated that ... there are somethings that even the most learned men have tired to find out and decipher but it is forbidden knowledge that is not ment to be discovered. But ... the bible is complete for what i need to know. The bible is mashed potatoes and what you add to it or make of it after that is mashed potatoes but to save myself from falsely assuming things .. i'd rather stand clear and stick to what was given to me.

2 Timothy 3;16
"All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and traingin in righteousness,"

rebuking means to criticize ... not to compel as incomplete.

>>Emy

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by Iacob
The bible is incomplete only up to the point until you have the Holy Spirit to understand it! If you don't ... you take it just as that ... a history book. The bible is complete for what you need to know. There is even a verse i ran across sunday in church that i can't seem to find again that stated that ... there are somethings that even the most learned men have tired to find out and decipher but it is forbidden knowledge that is not ment to be discovered. But ... the bible is complete for what i need to know. The bible is mashed potatoes and what you add to it or make of it after that is mashed potatoes but to save myself from falsely assuming things .. i'd rather stand clear and stick to what was given to me.

2 Timothy 3;16
"All scripture is God breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and traingin in righteousness,"

rebuking means to criticize ... not to compel as incomplete.

>>Emy

I like the quote, but it makes the Bible sound like a typical, simple school book for just learning morals. The Bible is much more than that. I personally don't have a problem with people trying to obtain knowledge or trying to further their education. If the Apostles who walked with Christ each day did not understand many of the things Jesus taught, then what makes us think that we can understand it now? The Holy Spirit entered into the Apostles so that they could perform miracles just as Jesus did. How many of us have the Holy Spirit in us with that amount of faith that we are able to do what the Apostles did? I don't see too many show of hands.

The forbidden knowledge that you speak of sounds like the knowledge of the fruit tree. We are already sinners, saved through the blood of Jesus. What other knowledge do you think is waiting to be discovered? Are you suggesting that we are living in a Garden of Eden now, and that if we continue to seek and discover that knowledge, then it will be another Adam and Eve scenario?
:scratch:

[electroclashh]

I DONT THINK THEY STILL APPLY BECAUSE THOSE LAWS WERE THE LAWS THE JEWISH PPL HAD SET UP TO MAKE THEMSELVES STAND OUT AGAINST THE GENTILES...

[Nygel]

Originally posted by SaintJoe69
I like the quote, but it makes the Bible sound like a typical, simple school book for just learning morals. The Bible is much more than that. I personally don't have a problem with people trying to obtain knowledge or trying to further their education. If the Apostles who walked with Christ each day did not understand many of the things Jesus taught, then what makes us think that we can understand it now? The Holy Spirit entered into the Apostles so that they could perform miracles just as Jesus did. How many of us have the Holy Spirit in us with that amount of faith that we are able to do what the Apostles did? I don't see too many show of hands.

The forbidden knowledge that you speak of sounds like the knowledge of the fruit tree. We are already sinners, saved through the blood of Jesus. What other knowledge do you think is waiting to be discovered? Are you suggesting that we are living in a Garden of Eden now, and that if we continue to seek and discover that knowledge, then it will be another Adam and Eve scenario?
:scratch:

It is forbidden for us to know the exact second Coming of Jesus.

[SaintJoe69]

Yes, Novellation, but knowing and predicting are two different things. God knows, and the prophesies only came true with visions from God.

Unless you are taking this in the sense of what Jesus spoke, for if you have thought about it, then you have already done it?

If we try to think or find the date of second coming, whether correct or incorrect, does that mean we are sinning?
:scratch:

Besides, I don't think it's necessarily the date of the second coming that we are trying to determine these days. It's more like just discovering or realizing that the signs the Bible has already prophesized is coming true.

What thread am I in, anyhow? I should be saving this stuff for one of the other discussions. Man, what has this to do with eating seafood?

Who got me off track?! :wall:

[meesh]

hmmm.....lemme get you back on track. someone said something about wether i believe the old testament is more important than Jesus's words in the new testament.......ummmm helllloooo!??? HE IS THE WORD. the entire book of the bible...old and new testament.....are ALL HIS WORDS. and what it was saying in isaiah is not about old testament times, but more like a prophecy of the future. prophecy that hasnt even happened yet, cause the new heavens and new earth have not been created yet.

and by the way...joe.......they ate more than just fruit in the garden. they ate nuts and grains and vegetables. any green thing that bears seeds......tomatoes, cucumbers, watermelons, etc.
you get the idea.

by the way....the whole chicken abortion thing.......where do you get the idea that the eggs ARENT FERTALIZED???? what? are you mixing chickens up with frogs? only frogs have the system where the female lays the eggs....and then the male goes and fertalizes them. eggs are fertalized from inside the chicken, or else they wouldnt be able to make and pass the egg. havent you ever gotten an egg that when you broke it, you found that the embryo had already started developing???

you can tell me what you want, but we used to raise chickens, and store bought eggs were just as good to put under a hen who wanted to hatch. anyway.....whatever you want to believe.

by the way......paul was vegetarian. he said it was neither good to eat flesh of any kind nor was it good to drink wine (fermented kind). and he said he would eat no meat while this world stands (its still standin) so that he would not offend a brother.

and we will eat and drink stuff in heaven. anyone who tells you otherwise needs to do their homework. the "kingdom of heaven" which i believe to be another phrase for "gospel", is not about eating and drinking, but about joy love and peace. the eating and drinking thing here on earth is all between you and God.

do all to the glory of God.

and p.s........the whole entire bible...old and new testament....are inspired by God and profitable for doctrine for reproof, for correction and instruction in righteousness, so that man may be thoroughly furnished to DO GOOD THINGS.

anyway...its late.....i need to get to bed.....got a big day tommorrow......pray that my car will start......

[SaintJoe69]

Gosh, Banateanca. Don't you know that I was just kidding? Otherwise, I would have just said I would be a vegetarian. :D

Yeah, so I read in the other thread that you've been following me around... kind of like a stalker. :sly:

Oh, yes. That is my point, too. People will either side on the Old Testament or the New Testament, but they forget that it's from the same book of laws... and that's from God.

It's ironic. Laws and commands. They are created each time man does something that he is not supposed to do.

Remember, "in the beginning"... there was only ONE command. Do not eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. And then Adam and Eve couldn't even follow that one command. Yes, they multiplied and replenished the earth. As they did, so did sin and evil.

Then came Moses, and the Ten Commandments. Only TEN people. Very simple ones, just like the one Adam and Eve had. But noooo. Man could not even follow those ten. So, now that we have the Bible, filled with commands and laws of eating, of drinking, of sex, of living... people STILL try to find a loophole in the law. Just as they do when it's tax time. I think it's just in man's nature to find a loophole.
:sly: Who knows? :scratch:

[meesh]

haha joe....following you around? stalking? what in the world are you talking about?

lol

by the way......what book did Jesus use when He lived on earth? what about the first christians? and many generations of christians to come before they had the whole Bible? they used the old testament.
the verse i quote above stands true......for ALL scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for reproof....etc.


yeah......i believe that when the Bible says that all food should be sanctified by prayer and by the word of God, that that means we should pray over our food and that it should follow the Biblical guidelines. any animal that is a scavenger should not be eaten. but any animal that is a vegetarian, those animals are clean and you are able to eat them if you absolutely have to.

i choose to remain vegetarian, cause i dont lack anything that is needed as nutrients and minerals for my body (despite what some ignorant folk believe) and also because not eating meat clears up your mind (scientifically proven). eating meat heightens temper. and i have a bad one.......so i am better off this way.

and having a clear mind is cool cause i can make better decisions and i can be in tune with God's leading thru the Holy Spirit much better. these are my personal reasons.

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
by the way......what book did Jesus use when He lived on earth? what about the first christians? and many generations of christians to come before they had the whole Bible? they used the old testament.
the verse i quote above stands true......for ALL scripture is inspired by God and is profitable for reproof....etc.


yeah......i believe that when the Bible says that all food should be sanctified by prayer and by the word of God, that that means we should pray over our food and that it should follow the Biblical guidelines. any animal that is a scavenger should not be eaten. but any animal that is a vegetarian, those animals are clean and you are able to eat them if you absolutely have to.

i choose to remain vegetarian, cause i dont lack anything that is needed as nutrients and minerals for my body (despite what some ignorant folk believe) and also because not eating meat clears up your mind (scientifically proven). eating meat heightens temper. and i have a bad one.......so i am better off this way.

and having a clear mind is cool cause i can make better decisions and i can be in tune with God's leading thru the Holy Spirit much better. these are my personal reasons.

Yes, they used the Old Testament before Jesus came down here with His teachings. But remember that when Jesus preached to the masses, He would always say something along the lines of, "I say unto thee, that the old book says, "This and that.". But I say unto you that you should do, "This and the other, instead."

*Sorry, I'm at work and didn't have time to look up exact quotes, but you know what I mean. Jesus was MAKING the new laws. He was getting rid of, or refining, the old laws.
:D

[meesh]

you are at work? already? what do you do?

[meesh]

and i dont think he was getting rid of.....i think he was only re defining them in people's minds......back to where they used to be. cause men perveted God's teachings. God made it simple and men have to go and make it complicated.

[SaintJoe69]

Well, Jesus really never got rid of the old laws. Yes, He was redefining them. Such as the commandment, Thou shalt not kill. That eventually became ok, because and "eye for an eye" wask ok. When Jesus came, He totally turned around both of those. Forget about killing again. Instead of even hating your enemies, you are supposed to love them now. Jesus reinstated the Ten Commandments again, but He added specifications to them. He gave them specific examples.

Again, I feel that He wasn't really living by the Old Testament. Although a bunch of it was laws, a lot of it was also prophesy about Him. He was fulfilling the prophecies as He redefined the Ten Commandments.
:D

[KrazyEuro]

i quickly read threw this thread just to see what people say... and its clear theres still 2 sides to this...now...someone said "how come the bible is not anymore clear on this"...well i found out the most possible clear explination about this in the bible... lemme go get it and i'll write it down...hold on..brb....
acts 10:9-16
9-About noon the following day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.

10-He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

11-He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.

12-it contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and bird of the air.

13-Then a voice told him, "get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

14-"surely not, Lord!" peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15-The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made Clean."

16-This happened three times, and immeditaely the sheet was taken back to heaven.

so in conclusion, ummmmm :lol2: i think the verses speak for itself...i have no conclusion for the bible speaks it all!

[SaintJoe69]

So, what you're telling us is that according to Acts 10:9-16, it's okay for us to eat ANYTHING, because EVERYTHING was made by God, and is considered to be unpure.

Well, I guess I'm going back to my pork and shrimp eggroll diet. :thfro:

[KrazyEuro]

first of...you probably mistakenly wrote the Originally posted by SaintJoe69
So, what you're telling us is that according to Acts 10:9-16, it's okay for us to eat ANYTHING, because EVERYTHING was made by God, and is considered to be UNPURE.
(Unpure doesnt seem right going there) and to answer your question....nope!! im not saying nothing...im a messanger delivering a message....you take it as you want :bfro:

[whoRu]

This is where I'll concour

[SaintJoe69]

Ok, it's not "unpure", but rather "impure" so that I don't get harrassed for misquoting scripture.
:D

And by you saying that you're just a messenger means that you hold no views on the subject, either for or against. However, I have noticed that being just a plain "messenger" has not been a roll in the other threads. So, that is interesting that you decided to play that role here.
:sly:

[danube]

to EAT pork or shrimp it is sin? Good question
how about eating Sarmale ? Or Cake? Not everything which we use more than we need is sin? Imbuibarea este un pacat si ea se aplica la orice. Paul, teach Titus to urge the youth to have self control, auto control. Not only in the food matter, but in evrything. Did you remember that "Self Control" is a fruit of the spirit ?
It is true that in the old Testament the pig was considered an unclean animal, but in the New Testament, apostle Paul said that everything is clean for a clean person. What we said makes us unclean not what we eat. It is true that the meat of pig digest harder than other meats, but this does not make it unclean.
I hope that this will answer your question. May God bless you !

[danube]

One reason why is considered unclean the pig in the old testament is:"ca avea copita despicata, nu ca carnea ar fi fost rea" Citeste Levetic 11:7 dar de asemenea citeste in Noul Testament in Faptele Apostolilor 10:11-15. Intelesul aici era despre neamuri si evrei, dar ceea ce curateste Domnul este curat. Am tinut sa fac si completarea asta, cred ca o sa ajute. God bless you!

[SaintJoe69]

Yes, but studies show that pork is considered the "other" white meat. These studies show that it's ok to eat pork now. So, eat up, but don't overdo it.
:D

[KrazyEuro]

Originally posted by SaintJoe69
And by you saying that you're just a messenger means that you hold no views on the subject, either for or against. However, I have noticed that being just a plain "messenger" has not been a roll in the other threads. So, that is interesting that you decided to play that role here.
:sly:

its funny how you associate actions with "playing" to be like someone...im not playing a role, when it comes to biblical proof, im just a messanger, when it comes to opinions, im a messanger with opinions. if you want, i can start adding the word "messanger" to every post i put up so it dont seem im trying to be someone else in other threads :bfro:

[SaintJoe69]

You should only avoid eating pork and shrimp if you're allergic to these two food items. Don't worry about the old laws of what you should eat. God made everything good for you to eat, except that of the tree of knowledge.
:D

[meesh]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
i quickly read threw this thread just to see what people say... and its clear theres still 2 sides to this...now...someone said "how come the bible is not anymore clear on this"...well i found out the most possible clear explination about this in the bible... lemme go get it and i'll write it down...hold on..brb....
acts 10:9-16
9-About noon the following day, as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray.

10-He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance.

11-He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners.

12-it contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and bird of the air.

13-Then a voice told him, "get up, Peter. Kill and eat."

14-"surely not, Lord!" peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."

15-The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made Clean."

16-This happened three times, and immeditaely the sheet was taken back to heaven.

so in conclusion, ummmmm :lol2: i think the verses speak for itself...i have no conclusion for the bible speaks it all!

ummm...yeah i agree with danube....if you keep readin, you will find out that Peter never ate anything from there, and he even explained that before the council later, that what God was saying by that is that gentiles should not be considered unclean.

[meesh]

ummm....would anybody care to read this chap. it is found in isaiah 65. isaiah chap. 66 is good to read too.

some people will already think......oh this is old testament. it may be.....but it contains prophecy or better said, an insight to the future. i would read that and see what you think.


verses of emphasis 65: 2-6, 66: 13-18

[KrazyEuro]

it is clear on what that chapter is about, (peters vision) and yes it was for the purpose to reveal that the gentiles are like everyone else just needed some enlightment...however..why would God use the animals?? God said "dont call nothing impure that he made clean" ....in hebrews it talks about praying over what you eat so God can make it pure...or something like that..i'll get the verse later..im at work right now so its hard to refer to scriptures right now.... :bfro:

[ballin4life26]

ok...... about pork....... the only reason the OTHER religions do not eat it............ (my friend who is liike........ the religion where u cant eat pork) they dont eat it beacuse PORK eats like food humans dont eat, they eat garbage, and they think its sick to do that........ shrimp....... its TOO FREAKEN GOOD for it to be illegal :) haha, but jst like ppl in the bible eat fish....... we eat shrimp.... we eat the things that do not have souls........ like all dogs go to heaven movie.......(its tight, i loved it as a kid) is not true...... animals just breathe, eat, and die......... just like fish, shrimp, and pig........ they dont go to pig heaven

[SaintJoe69]

ISAIAH 65:
2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
6 Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,

ISAIAH 66:
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
14 And when ye see this, your heart shall rejoice, and your bones shall flourish like an herb: and the hand of the LORD shall be known toward his servants, and his indignation toward his enemies.
15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.
17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.
18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory.

Banateanca, are you sure this is what you wanted us to read? The only thing that I can see this relating to the thread is the bolded part, about eating pork skin. I never did have a taste for those pork grinds. Potato chips are much better.

Hmmm... the blue part sounds like a nuclear blast and the after effects to me. :eek:

[meesh]

umm..joey......flesh is not just skin.......flesh is all meat.....muscles, tendon, intestines....everything

and i wanted you to read the WHOLE chapters, cause the whole context is important. it talks about the new heaven and the new earth and stuff.

[meesh]

hey ballin.....it goes farther than that....

in the beginning....all animals and humans ate plant stuff...PERIOD. Check out genesis chapt.1

then because of sin, which caused the flood, flesh started to be eaten. then, as people became more sinful, they lusted after meat more and more....

check out exodus 16 and numbers 11. even quail....considered a clean meat because a quail is a vegetarian, the people still died of disease.......just like they do today of kidney failure and heart attack and stroke. no different today than it was then.

all the meats that were "forbidden" by God in leviticus, were forbidden because those animals were scavengers. and scavengers can harbor diseases in their body.

God never has us do anything unless it is for our own good.

[Ana Maria]

ughhh gee mihaela..ur gonna make friends...i know i know u'll prbobably email me or pm me and all. but hey its ok....i like shrimp...and i know the two of us hav had this conversation till our face turns blue...that ham and egg was kinda gross though...

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
umm..joey......flesh is not just skin.......flesh is all meat.....muscles, tendon, intestines....everything

and i wanted you to read the WHOLE chapters, cause the whole context is important. it talks about the new heaven and the new earth and stuff.

I want to be like everyone else. I just want to use one verse to base my whole faith on, regarding a particular subject.

Of course, that verse has to agree with my views, or at least appear to.

:rolleyes: :sly:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
hey ballin.....it goes farther than that....

in the beginning....all animals and humans ate plant stuff...PERIOD. Check out genesis chapt.1

then because of sin, which caused the flood, flesh started to be eaten. then, as people became more sinful, they lusted after meat more and more....

check out exodus 16 and numbers 11. even quail....considered a clean meat because a quail is a vegetarian, the people still died of disease.......just like they do today of kidney failure and heart attack and stroke. no different today than it was then.

all the meats that were "forbidden" by God in leviticus, were forbidden because those animals were scavengers. and scavengers can harbor diseases in their body.

God never has us do anything unless it is for our own good.

What? Quail is not clean. They fly all over the place leaving their poop on my car. I always have to wash over them.

... oh, wait a minute... that would be pigeons. :lol2:

[Nygel]

Originally posted by SaintJoe69
I want to be like everyone else. I just want to use one verse to base my whole faith on, regarding a particular subject.

Of course, that verse has to agree with my views, or at least appear to.

:rolleyes: :sly:

:lol2: I knew it! You're trying to mislead me with your sarcastic smiley combination, when in truth you are being dead serious. :laf: :laf: :lol2:

[kristinutsa]

mmm this thread is making me want to order some pork and shrimp fried rice from our local chinese place that delivers!

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by kristinutsa
mmm this thread is making me want to order some pork and shrimp fried rice from our local chinese place that delivers!

Kristinutsa, draga... Hmmm... you should have come over to Ten's. I showed them how to make some sushi and pork spring rolls. Olgutza tried to throw extra ingredient in there, like tomatoes, and she didn't like it.
:tut:

[meesh]

Originally posted by SaintJoe69
Kristinutsa, draga... Hmmm... you should have come over to Ten's. I showed them how to make some sushi and pork spring rolls. Olgutza tried to throw extra ingredient in there, like tomatoes, and she didn't like it.
:tut:

haha lol.....sounds great! lol.......cooking is always an adventure.

i like pork fried rice.....but the vegan kind. you see, there is this awesome chinese restaurant in town, ( off of Buford hwy. with Chamblee-tucker rd. ). it is called harmony's. everything is totally vegan, meaning no meat, no dairy, and no eggs. (except for the fortune cookie......it has eggs in it.)

they have pork , shrimp, lamb, chicken, duck,....anything you could ever want and it is totally vegan!!!! no cholestral to worry about here. (cause cholestral only comes from animal products.)

and the stuff really tastes so good. i have taken many a meat eater to that restaurant, and they really cant tell the difference. it is the greatest, and its not too expensive either.

[meesh]

i am allergic to pork, have been....oddly enuf, ever since i have been saved.(dont ask me how come.....)

so i dont have a problem staying away from that one.

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
haha lol.....sounds great! lol.......cooking is always an adventure.

i like pork fried rice.....but the vegan kind. you see, there is this awesome chinese restaurant in town, ( off of Buford hwy. with Chamblee-tucker rd. ). it is called harmony's. everything is totally vegan, meaning no meat, no dairy, and no eggs. (except for the fortune cookie......it has eggs in it.)

they have pork , shrimp, lamb, chicken, duck,....anything you could ever want and it is totally vegan!!!! no cholestral to worry about here. (cause cholestral only comes from animal products.)

and the stuff really tastes so good. i have taken many a meat eater to that restaurant, and they really cant tell the difference. it is the greatest, and its not too expensive either.

How can you have all of this stuff without meat? Are you eating tofu or something? Is this like Play-Doh, where you can make any kind of food with any color?
:scratch: :D

[meesh]

hmmm.....mr joey.....have you ever been to harmony's? there is some tofu in some things......but not in most of them.

you just go to harmony's soon, and let me know what you think then. but dont go on tuesday, they are closed.

if i were you...i would order the hunan lamb.....its like the best, i promise!!!!

its good stuff, you cant tell the difference. also the shrimp and vegetables is pretty good. and the fish in brown sauce is good.

[Ceci]

yes it is ok to eat animals. .thats what they were created for

[ballin4life26]

banateanca- lets remember the FOOD chain dear...... lol

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
hmmm.....mr joey.....have you ever been to harmony's? there is some tofu in some things......but not in most of them.

you just go to harmony's soon, and let me know what you think then. but dont go on tuesday, they are closed.

if i were you...i would order the hunan lamb.....its like the best, i promise!!!!

its good stuff, you cant tell the difference. also the shrimp and vegetables is pretty good. and the fish in brown sauce is good.

Hmmm... I don't really like REAL lamb that much, and you want to try the FAKE lamb? :screwy:

:scratch: Hmmm... I could go for another Bison burger. Mmmmm... those are good. :thfro:

[meesh]

hmmm..i didnt like real lamb either that much......but this is good. you gotta trust me on this. you gotta go to that place..

to ceci........ummm...no they were not created to be eaten. if you dont mind, go to genesis chap. 1 and read the last 3-4 verses and you can see what God intended for foood.
and that goes for you too, ballin.......the food chain by God plan wasnt like the food chain we have now. the food chain we have now is because of sin and degradation.

but once we go to heaven and God will have his way again, it says in the bible that there will be no hurting OR destroying (killing) on Gods Holy Mountain. here, lemme get the verse for ya....

17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

18 But be ye glad and rejoice for ever in that which I create: for, behold, I create Jerusalem a rejoicing, and her people a joy.

19 And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23 They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

[meesh]

1COR 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


even paul was a vegetarian.

when we go to heaven, we will all be vegetarian, us and the animals. so i choose to get used to it now.

animal eating was allowed just like divorce was allowed. it was never meant to be in the first place....but because the hardening for human hearts, it was allowed.

[Estike]

Bad or not... lol... I eat it all...

[61leumas]

its not bad at all unles you jewisha nd you wish to hold to the original jewish tradition

[Nygel]

Originally posted by banateanca
1COR 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


even paul was a vegetarian.

when we go to heaven, we will all be vegetarian, us and the animals. so i choose to get used to it now.

Well I hear their won't be any marrying in heaven, so you better get divorced so you get used to being single :p....(I do not support divorce, I'm just using it for the sake of debate)

IS there going to be eating and drinking in heaven? :scratch: I guess than their would also be body wastes (need of bathrooms) :lol2:

animal eating was allowed just like divorce was allowed. it was never meant to be in the first place....but because the hardening for human hearts, it was allowed.

I honestly do not know where you got that idea from. :scratch: Jesus did set the record straight on divorce. What did he say about eating "unclean" animals, stop trying to ignore what Jesus said. :tut: Jesus set the record straight when he said that food does not make you "unclean". So how do you understand "hardening of human hearts" to be the reason behind Jesus saying that?

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
1COR 8:13 Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.

even paul was a vegetarian.

when we go to heaven, we will all be vegetarian, us and the animals. so i choose to get used to it now.

animal eating was allowed just like divorce was allowed. it was never meant to be in the first place....but because the hardening for human hearts, it was allowed.

What?! :eek: What kind of silliness talk is this coming from you? :scratch:

Do you really think that we will need food to sustain us in heaven? :tut:

Besides, Paul had good intentions, but if he avoided everything just so he would not offend his brother, then he might not have done anything at all. Remember, you can not please everyone all of the time, but only someone some of the time.
:thfro:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by 61leumas
its not bad at all unles you jewisha nd you wish to hold to the original jewish tradition

I'm not Jewish, but of Jew decent. I'm Joeish, so I can veer off the old traditions. :thfro:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by Ceci
yes it is ok to eat animals. .thats what they were created for

Let's be specific now. Are you talking about all animals? Does that include the animals that we have domesticated, too?
:tut:

Remember the next time you eat some Chinese food, it might be cat or dog. :eek:

[Serbauti]

Straight from the Bible (sorry, I don't have an English translation right now, but that's another reason why I'm writing the location of the verses):

Rom. 14:2, 3 "Unul crede ca poate sa manince de toate; pe cind altul, care este slab, nu maninca decit verdeturi. Cine maninca sa nu dispretuiasca pe cine nu maninca; si cine nu maninca, sa nu judece pe cine maninca, fiindca Dumnezeu l-a primit."
v.13, 14 "Sa nu ne mai judecam dar unii pe altii. Ci mai bine judecati sa nu faceti nimic care sa fie pentru fratele vostru o piatra de poticnire sau un prilej de pacatuire. Eu stiu si sint incredintat in Domnul Isus, ca nimic nu este necurat in sine, si ca un lucru nu este necurat decit pentru cel ce crede ca este necurat."
1 Cor. 10:25, 26 "Sa mincati din tot ce se vinde pe piata, fara sa cercetati ceva din pricina cugetului. Caci 'al Domnului este pamintul si tot ce cuprinde el.'"
1 Tim. 4:4, 5 "Caci orice faptura a lui Dumnezeu este buna: si nimic nu este de lepadat, daca se ia cu multamiri; pentruca este sfintit prin Cuvintul lui Dumnezeu si prin rugaciune."
Rom. 14:17 "Caci imparatia lui Dumnezeu nu este mincare si bautura, ci neprihanire, pace si bucurie in Duhul Sfint."

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by Serbauti
Straight from the Bible (sorry, I don't have an English translation right now, but that's another reason why I'm writing the location of the verses):

Rom. 14:2, 3 "Unul crede ca poate sa manince de toate; pe cind altul, care este slab, nu maninca decit verdeturi. Cine maninca sa nu dispretuiasca pe cine nu maninca; si cine nu maninca, sa nu judece pe cine maninca, fiindca Dumnezeu l-a primit."
v.13, 14 "Sa nu ne mai judecam dar unii pe altii. Ci mai bine judecati sa nu faceti nimic care sa fie pentru fratele vostru o piatra de poticnire sau un prilej de pacatuire. Eu stiu si sint incredintat in Domnul Isus, ca nimic nu este necurat in sine, si ca un lucru nu este necurat decit pentru cel ce crede ca este necurat."
1 Cor. 10:25, 26 "Sa mincati din tot ce se vinde pe piata, fara sa cercetati ceva din pricina cugetului. Caci 'al Domnului este pamintul si tot ce cuprinde el.'"
1 Tim. 4:4, 5 "Caci orice faptura a lui Dumnezeu este buna: si nimic nu este de lepadat, daca se ia cu multamiri; pentruca este sfintit prin Cuvintul lui Dumnezeu si prin rugaciune."
Rom. 14:17 "Caci imparatia lui Dumnezeu nu este mincare si bautura, ci neprihanire, pace si bucurie in Duhul Sfint."

Royouth has an online English KJV Bible. It's easier to copy and paste from that if you want. I use it for many of my debates and discussions.
:thfro:

[Nygel]

Unlike in the Old Testament where certain foods were considered unclean nowadays if you eat pork their is like no way that you are a 'stumbling block' for someone 'weak' in their faith since the vast majority eat pork, and anyways you can just point these 'weak' christians to what Jesus said :D

[meesh]

fine.....but in heaven we wont be eating any meat....just like in the beginnning.....GOD'S ORIGINAL DIET was no meat. why? because he knew meat wasnt good for the body. i mean, everybody says we need protein and vitamin B-12 which they say we can only get from meat....WRONG!!!!. VITAMIN B-12 you can get from soy sauce, certain cereals, and milk SUBSTITUES (soy stuff)

about protien, we really only need 45-60 grams of protein a day!!!! yet we westerners consume over 3 times that much a day! These excessive amounts of protein are hard on the kidneys, promote gout, and cause calcium to be leached from the bones (whats the point of building big muscles if you dont have the bones to hold them up......and NO drinking milk does NOT help because that is animal protein as well!!!)

[MaRK!]

Originally posted by banateanca
fine.....but in heaven we wont be eating any meat....just like in the beginnning.....GOD'S ORIGINAL DIET was no meat. why? because he knew meat wasnt good for the body. i mean, everybody says we need protein and vitamin B-12 which they say we can only get from meat....WRONG!!!!. VITAMIN B-12 you can get from soy sauce, certain cereals, and milk SUBSTITUES (soy stuff)

about protien, we really only need 45-60 grams of protein a day!!!! yet we westerners consume over 3 times that much a day! These excessive amounts of protein are hard on the kidneys, promote gout, and cause calcium to be leached from the bones (whats the point of building big muscles if you dont have the bones to hold them up......and NO drinking milk does NOT help because that is animal protein as well!!!)

1. "..because he knew meat wasnt good for the body."?? hmm.. never read thAt anywhere. maybe you had a "speshul" revelation. kinda like the 39-yr old guy that went to the already-engaged 20-yr old grl to tell her god told him he has to marry her. oddly enough, he was the only one who heard that voice.

2. "WRONG!!!!. VITAMIN B-12 you can get from soy sauce, certain cereals, and milk SUBSTITUES (soy stuff)"?? wrong again. there ARe things in meat you can't get anywhere else. at one point i was specifically told to "drink 2 glasses of red wine a day and eat at least one portion of red meat (steak) a day."

3. "about protien, we really only need 45-60 grams of protein a day!!!! " ...if you weight 100lbs. as for me, i usually take in 55g of protein 30 minutes after 2hrs in the gym at one time, usually in the form of a shake. ..and all this, encouraged by my dietician who at one point put me on a 3500-calorie diet when i was in training.

4. "whats the point of building big muscles if you dont have the bones to hold them up......" ..i havent yet met anybody who lacks the bone structure to hold up their own body mass. whats the point? i dont support the huge body-builder look thing but i support fitness and good health.
i believe that to be healthy (physically AND spiritually) you need a good balance of various things across the spectrum. nothing in the bible ever told me extremism is what we're called to. its unfortunate that some individuals are so swayed by new age movements and hippie-propoganda, advocating conspiracy theories (can you believe sOME people are sO convinced we never went to the moon??), and changing their diets with such convinced hearts that eeeeeverybody else is wrong? well, im glad yOU found the light. or... "your" light. but i tell u what... it sure isnt shinin mY way because i like my steak large, cooked medium well to where its still somewhat pink in the middle, juicy, and with a-1 steak sauce!
THANKS for comin out. you just won a tye-dye shirt with a peace-symbol on the back for your efforts! please consult your 'light' to claim your prize!:thfro:

[DINGLEBERRY]

ITS A SIN!

IT'S ALSO A SIN TO CHEW GUM

TAKE BATHS,

SMELL GRAPES,

EAT CANDY,

AND WASH YOUR HAIR. :-\ shesh people.....

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by PiklesAndOlives
ITS A SIN!

IT'S ALSO A SIN TO CHEW GUM

TAKE BATHS,

SMELL GRAPES,

EAT CANDY,

AND WASH YOUR HAIR. :-\ shesh people.....

You know it's a sin to lie about these things, right? I never read about this stuff in the Bible when I was researching the pork and shrimp diet plan. Where did you find all of this other stuff from?
:scratch:

[DINGLEBERRY]

i was being sarcastic. i think its rediculous how people ask pointless questions like that.

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by PiklesAndOlives
i was being sarcastic. i think its rediculous how people ask pointless questions like that.

Hmmm... I know you were being sarcastic, and so was I. It's funny that people who dish out sarcasm can't really tell when it's given.

A question, no matter how pointless it may seem to you or to me, is never really pointless if it is answered.

I shouldn't have to always point out the simple things in life. :D

[Olgutza]

eating pork and shrimp is not a sin... especially when it is inside one of saintjoe's eggrolls. hehehe :baby:

[meesh]

hahaha..lol....i've heard that joey cooks.......a good quality for a man to have......lolol

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
hahaha..lol....i've heard that joey cooks.......a good quality for a man to have......lolol

Of course. Why let the women have all the fun? :D

[meesh]

hahaha :amen: . i wholeheartedly agree with ya joey! (at least we agree on something eh?)

yeah......dont let those women keep you guys from having all the fun.....(*snicker snicker*)....umm..yeah......men make the best cooks anyway!!!!

but i wonder is joey is talented enuf to cook up a good veggie meal.......lololol

[Olgutza]

hey, don't knock the asian food. almost anything can be cooked in a wok... at least i've seen it done on tv.
:baby:

[meesh]

umm....i wasnt knockin the asian food.......its one of my favorites..........usually asians are healthier than americans.....

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
umm....i wasnt knockin the asian food.......its one of my favorites..........usually asians are healthier than americans.....

Asians are healthier than Romanians, too. :D

[meesh]

haha.....probably........lololol....

you asians look so young too...i envy ya'll.....(haha that was said with the georgian accent...lolol)

[jonjon5000]

Dear 65stang, you said that vegetarians don't get necessary nutrients in their body. I've never eaten meat in my 17.5 years of life, and I look normal as can be. You seem to be able to count the number of food groups, but you can't read what's in the fourth. Is it just meat? Or can you eat beans, nuts, etc... and get the same nutrients?? I think that eating pork and shrimp is a sin. Jesus abolished the sacrificial system, but not the health system. If those foods were bad for his chosen people back then, how are the good now??

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by jonjon5000
Dear 65stang, you said that vegetarians don't get necessary nutrients in their body. I've never eaten meat in my 17.5 years of life, and I look normal as can be. You seem to be able to count the number of food groups, but you can't read what's in the fourth. Is it just meat? Or can you eat beans, nuts, etc... and get the same nutrients?? I think that eating pork and shrimp is a sin. Jesus abolished the sacrificial system, but not the health system. If those foods were bad for his chosen people back then, how are the good now??

What does pork and shrimp have to do with the sacrificial system that Jesus "abolished"? :scratch:

Did Jesus not appear to the apostles that were fishing AFTER He was ressurected, and He told them to cast their nets on the Right side of the boat? Did Jesus not welcome them back to shore and enjoy fish with them? Hmmm...

I don't know about you, but I consider shrimp to be in the "fish" department when I do my shopping. As for pork, I don't recall whether or not Jesus feasted on pork after He was ressurected, but I tend to believe that it does not say that eating pork is a sin.

If so, then please show me again, with Biblical verses. I hope it's from the New Testament, too, because this is where Jesus did his teachings.
:D

[meesh]

haha..only funny thing joey.....cause Jesus taught out of the old testament.....

pork and shrimp are considered "unclean" cause they are scavangers...which is why we arent supposed to eat cats and dogs and vultures and stuff.....

Jesus did eat meat....he ate fish....no biggie....but it was fish that had scales and fins......

remember that Jesus was a jew and he lived among the jews......and all the jews kept the health laws......(by teh way...the word Kosher....its a jewish thing).....anyway.......if he ate any "unclean thing" ...dont you think that the jews would have raised some "dust" over it?

certainly!!

what about peter and his vision? if you read carefully.......(and this is WAY after Jesus went to heaven) he never NEVER took what was in that table cloth/sheet thingy....and he said that up to that time he had never eaten anything unclean!!!

and then when he explained this whole thing to the council later on.....he tells you exactly what teh whole dream was about....not about making those things that were bad ,now making them good.....but that we shouldnt look at people as "unclean"......

a lesson that america had to learn during the civil war about slavery and about africans........they are not "unclean" as most people viewed them.......and some people still view them....

[SaintJoe69]

What nonsense is this? What does African slavery have to do with being unclean. You are comparing them as being unclean in the sense that certain animals are not eaten because they are unclean. Were we cannibals during the Civil War or something?
:screwy:

After Peter's visions, when Jesus told him it was okay to eat certain things, he still refused to eat them.

The reason we don't eat cats and dogs is because they are considered domesticated animals. There are certain animals that are considered domesticated, and that's why we don't eat them.

It may or may not say that Jesus ate certain things, but remember that Jesus rebuked many of the teachings of the Old Testament and made "revisions" to them. When asked about "working" on the sabbath day, Jesus gave them a parable about the shepard and his lost sheep. When Jesus spoke about adultery, He corrected them on their previous views regarding the subject. When Jesus talked about loving your neighbor, He also added that you should love your enemies. All of this was new to them, even though they had followed all of the "old" laws.

So, it would be NO surprise to me at all if Jesus did eat pork and shrimp, whether He lived with the Jews or not. They questioned Him on just about anything else, so it wouldn't have surprised me if He did eat these things and they questioned Him on it.

For these reasons, I do not follow many of the Old Testament laws, because Jesus came and corrected and revised many of them. Goodness, if eating pork and shrimp is a sin, so is eating sarmale, and I don't care if it's Biblically proven or not. That's how silly this debate is.

*Sorry for any attitude people think I have... I am currently at work, and my eyes are really dry right now, and they're bothering me like crazy.
:argue:

[meesh]

haha..i feel ya on the eyes thing....i just took my contacts out.....cause they got so dry it took me a few minutes to try to get them out..

here is something that you must understand..

the 10 commandments....Jesus changed nothing about them....mabye he made a few of them even stricter....like the fact that just hating someone could be thought of as murder.

what he changed.....was all the extra rules that the jews added that were not in the Bible. jews have many many rules...like on sabbath you can only walk so many feet or so.......and you cant even light a match. those kinda things were totally extremeist. Jesus came to RESTORE the laws to THE WAY THEY USED TO BE.

he came to FULFILL the law......what happens when you fulfill something? if i give you a list of chores.....and you fulfill them.....what did you do?

did you throw the list aside and the work aside? or did you follow everything on that list and do all that is told you to do?

if you fulfilled the list...you did exactly as it said. Jesus came to show that it is possible to keep the commandments, and that it is possible to live a sin-less life. it may not be easy......but it is possible...

so...back to the fulfilling.....if Jesus fulfilled the law....he lived it entirely like it was supposed to be..

and about working on sabbath.....all they were doing was eating some uncooked grain right off the field (sounds appetizing,eh?) and the pharisee were like "oo! oo! look! he picked something!"

they were so blind......

its like this true story of a friend of mine back when he was like 5 or so...

he was in church ...in the front with all the other little kids.....and when it was time for prayer.....he looked around.....and he saw another kid named "johnny" with his eyes open during prayer.....

and as soon as prayer was done....he stood up and yelled at the top of his voice "JOHNNY HAD HIS EYES OPEN DURING PRAYER!!!!"

then the pastor....full of wisdom, and hardly being able to keep himself from bursting out laughing.....he turned to the boy and said...."well, how could you tell , if you had your eyes closed???". the little boy saw he was doing the same time......and he turned red and was quiet for the rest of the service....

so..here are the pharisees.....trying to point their finger at Jesus and his followers......when even THEY WERENT FOLLOWING THEIR OWN RIGID LAWS.......

i hope that made some sense.......

[SaintJoe69]

That example of them gathering food on the sabbath was not the only example. There was another example when Jesus healed some person on the sabbath, and they considered that to be working on the sabbath. I think it might have been the person Jesus told to take up his bed and go, or something like that. I don't have the verses with me, nor do I have my Bible at work.
:(

[meesh]

hmmmm..you should carry your sword with ya where ever you go......

yeah...that is true.....but you must remember....that the jews were the ones who put down the hundreds of specific laws.....liek waht to do and not to do on a sabbath day.......
and they didnt do what God wanted them to do in the first place....

the sabbath was supposed to be a day of release...relaxations......freedoms from bonds........etc....

and he was proving it thru that miracle......

[KrazyEuro]

Timothy 4 - Specifically says, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

and another time after Jesus Healed a sick lil young girl said this

Version: KJV

luke 8:55-56

55. And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat. 56. And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

the HE would be Jesus, why would Jesus command meat to be given to her if it was a sin??

hmm people say that the old testament says that meat is a sin??? obviously you guys dont read what the bible says concerning this theory... :bfro:
The Bible says that in the earliest days of creation, all of God's creation (even animals) were vegetarian. When God blessed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, He said to them:

"I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be food for you. And to the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food. And it was so" (Genesis 1:29-30).

It appears that all creation was vegetarian until after the waters of the Great Flood receded and Noah and his family were left to replenish the earth.

Genesis 9:1-3 says: "Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all of the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, now I give you everything."

so in conclusion, you guys are wrong :bfro: :lol2: and its not a sin :bfro:

[meesh]

the verse there with the healing of the girl....meat is actually a word for FOOD....check it out in the greek buddy.....

and now that you mentioned noah...God gave us permission..but he also gave us logic......

everything is permitted..but not everything is usefull....


now thinking logically...what was the purposed for God specifying to noah that of the UNCLEAN animals to take just one pair..male and female.... yet of the CLEAN animals...to take in 7 pairs....both male and female....

read it at genesis 7:2

what is the purposed of that.....? why even make the distinction.....?????

[Nygel]

Timothy 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving; 5 for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.


If I use my God-given logic I understand this verse to have a very simple message.

banateanca do you eat animals that were considered "clean" in the Old Testament? Well you should, since God said it was okay.

And as you were talking about Jesus coming to fulfill the law. What more are you waiting for? You think you have a good reason to be a vegetarian after Jesus said that what you eat is not important but what comes out of your heart?

[meesh]

yeah.....lots of good reasons....no cholestoral (which only comes from animal products) no animal proteins to pull calcium out of my bones (i need all the caclium i can get) and drinking milk only pulls more calcium out then it ever can put in......

and in heaven....there wont be any killing of any kind.....read isaiah 65 just like there wasnt any at the beginning of the world WHEN EVERYTHING WAS PERFECT. the more and more we study our bodies and how they are made, the more and more we find out that the vegetarian diet isthe best that suites our makers design that was from the very beginning.

now..i dont judge anyone for what they eat......cause the kingdom of heaven is now about foood or drink or clothing,etc. you eat whatyou are convicted of and as long as your conscience is SINCERELY clear.....then i respect that. i hope the same will be practiced toward me for my convictions.

[meesh]

oh....and look at the last part of the verse you gave......sanctified by the word of God (1st) and prayer....

the word of God says these things are not clean and you should not eat them. once it passes the Word of God, then prayer is applied.

[KrazyEuro]

ok banateanca, thats all gravy that you dont eat meat, but to say its a sin, now thats a whole new ball game, no where in the bible does it state that its a sin, just like no where in the bible it states that drinking is a sin. can it be potentially harmeful? sure it can, just like EVERYTHING you take too much of can be harmful! water, too much of it causes congestive heart failure. soda, too much of it causes high blood pressure and diabetes. EVERYTHING you take too much of causes something bad, dont pin point meat and say its sin, cus no where in the bible does it state this...and Jesus declared "ALL" living things clean. i dont see an "except" anywhere in those verses...nobody is saying its bad if you "DONT" eat meat and what not, but then to say its a "SIN" if you eat it, well no you're just making a whole new version of the bible, QBV (Queen Banateanca Version) you do what you want, :bfro:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
Timothy 4 - Specifically says, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, [and commanding] to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God [is] good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

and another time after Jesus Healed a sick lil young girl said this

Version: KJV

luke 8:55-56

55. And her spirit came again, and she arose straightway: and he commanded to give her meat. 56. And her parents were astonished: but he charged them that they should tell no man what was done.

the HE would be Jesus, why would Jesus command meat to be given to her if it was a sin??

hmm people say that the old testament says that meat is a sin??? obviously you guys dont read what the bible says concerning this theory... :bfro:
The Bible says that in the earliest days of creation, all of God's creation (even animals) were vegetarian. When God blessed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, He said to them:

"I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be food for you. And to the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground--everything that has the breath of life in it--I give every green plant for food. And it was so" (Genesis 1:29-30).

It appears that all creation was vegetarian until after the waters of the Great Flood receded and Noah and his family were left to replenish the earth.

Genesis 9:1-3 says: "Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. The fear and dread of you will fall upon all of the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands. Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, now I give you everything."

so in conclusion, you guys are wrong :bfro: :lol2: and its not a sin :bfro:

Wait... who are you calling wrong? I have meat in my menus, buddy. I'm not a vegetarian. I see no harm in eating pork or shrimp, neither pork grinds.
:D

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by banateanca
the verse there with the healing of the girl....meat is actually a word for FOOD....check it out in the greek buddy.....

and now that you mentioned noah...God gave us permission..but he also gave us logic......

everything is permitted..but not everything is usefull....


now thinking logically...what was the purposed for God specifying to noah that of the UNCLEAN animals to take just one pair..male and female.... yet of the CLEAN animals...to take in 7 pairs....both male and female....

read it at genesis 7:2

what is the purposed of that.....? why even make the distinction.....?????

God only wanted the best for Noah. I mean, I would want clean animals only, too. Noah had enough to do, why did he need the burden of cleaning up unclean animals?
:scratch:

[SaintJoe69]

Originally posted by KrazyEuro
ok banateanca, thats all gravy that you dont eat meat, but to say its a sin, now thats a whole new ball game, no where in the bible does it state that its a sin, just like no where in the bible it states that drinking is a sin. can it be potentially harmeful? sure it can, just like EVERYTHING you take too much of can be harmful! water, too much of it causes congestive heart failure. soda, too much of it causes high blood pressure and diabetes. EVERYTHING you take too much of causes something bad, dont pin point meat and say its sin, cus no where in the bible does it state this...and Jesus declared "ALL" living things clean. i dont see an "except" anywhere in those verses...nobody is saying its bad if you "DONT" eat meat and what not, but then to say its a "SIN" if you eat it, well no you're just making a whole new version of the bible, QBV (Queen Banateanca Version) you do what you want, :bfro:

Come on. Give her some slack if she wants to make a new translation of the Bible. I thought you have your version, too, right? The KE version?

Anyhow, did you debate in this manner in regards to the other threads? I thought it was St3lliano and me who were trying to get the point across that everything taken out of moderation could be unhealthy for you. Hmmm...
:scratch:

Oh, and here's a question for you guys... What happened to the animals that usually lived in the waters? Were they tied to the Ark, or what? Or did Noah just talk to them and say, "Come on you dolphins, try to keep up... you're lagging behind the whales."
Or maybe something like... "Doh! You whales don't inhale so much... those were the only two clean shrimp and fish of that kind that we had."

hehehe :D

[meesh]

hahah krazy....qbv....i like the queen part...lolol...jk

im not the Holy Spirit...so i wont say what is a sin and what isnt.....i know for my life....you go ask God for your life.....and let Him truly convict ya. too many times......and im not saying that this is one of those times......but too many times....we dont flee from evil....we try to get as close to the line as possible without fallin over......i think that is where our problem comes from///

if you say drinking is not bad...but getting drunk is.....then instead of trying to see how close we can get to the "line" without sinning, why dont we run the opposite direction without looking bacck???

not to say that i do that in all things....but realy i should.....

eating meat is not a sin. but my convictions are that meat leads to sickness and sin and disease. just like the hebrews wanting quail...in the desert.....God's manna was not good enuf for them......so God gave them what they wanted.....but He also let them have the consequences......cause most of them got sick and died from eating those quail.

so.....did God send them poisoned quail??? im sure He didnt. but it wasnt good for them, and God knew it...and He provided all they needed.....but they werent satisfied or content.

the first sin was over food that was restricted........and our problem still seems to be the same today. why such a big deal over an animal or two that is considered "unclean" cause its a scavanger and harbors diseaases? dont we have so much more to choose from? i mean, hey! locusts are clean animals!!!! lololol

so tell me..what do you do with the verses in isaiah 65:4,5 and isaiah 66: 16,17

can we discuss these verses...and read the context.......i'd like to see the honest conclusions gotten from these two chapters in the Bible...and especially these 4 verses......

[KrazyEuro]

65:4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;

65:5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.



isaiah 66: 16,17

16. For by fire will the Lord execute judgment, and by his sword, upon all flesh; and those slain by the Lord shall be many. 17. "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating swine's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, says the Lord.

[KrazyEuro]

sure, not a problem, but after that is discussed and we realize thats old school traditions, lets discuss this

acts 10:10-16

10. And he became hungry and desired something to eat; but while they were preparing it, he fell into a trance

11. and saw the heaven opened, and something descending, like a great sheet, let down by four corners upon the earth.

12. In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air.

13. And there came a voice to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat."

14. But Peter said, "No, Lord; for I have never eaten anything that is common or unclean."

15. And the voice came to him again a second time, "What God has cleansed, you must not call common."

16. This happened three times, and the thing was taken up at once to heaven.

[meesh]

okay......good verses....but do you understand what you just read?

[KrazyEuro]

yes, it was a vision to God telling him to go preach to the gentiles..i know what it is...ok but listen to this..if God stood by all animals are unclean...why would he use that type of vision?? understand one thing, there were laws, but Jesus came down and set new laws, and whiped away some of the old laws, and meat eating was one of them.... its cool if you dont eat it, nobody is putting you down, but dont go around preaching that its a sin! cus it is not!! just like drinking is not a sin! but the bible warns us about it... lemme tell you this.if its a sin...only vegetarians would be going to heaven, because in this sense, we are conforming to the world, and falling in the same sin..when the bible says when you repent, you turn away from sin...and if this is not a sin we ask for forgiveness on, then we have sin in our lives, and if we have sin in our lves, we cant be one with God, if we're not one with God, then we're not going to heaven, so out of all these posts on this topic, you're the only one that says its wrong to eat meat, so in this sense, you're the only one going to heaven. is that what you're teling me?? :scratch:

:lol2: i dont mean to sound harsh :bfro:

[tenazrael]

when we go to heaven... if all we eat is fruits and vegatables thats fine. as for getting ready for it, i don't see the need! if i remember correctly when we go to heaven, were gonna have new bodies. secondly were not gonna have the wants that we had in this world! im not gonna want a donut or meat for that matter! so if we eat in heaven... im not gonna be up there grumbling and complaining that gees i wish i could have a steak because if i did "want" that steak... im gonna look at a nice cow and think what? "hmm let me take a bite out that cow" and well i don't think were gonna think about killing cows either!

so this whole lets prepare to be vegetarians for when we go to heaven doesn't make sense! its like a company moving from one building to the next. the company doesn't change the inside of the old building to get an idea of what it will look like in the new building. no it waits and moves and then it furnishes the inside of hte building!

[tenazrael]

secondly that verse about Peter and the lowering of the net! if the purpose of that was so that the Jewish leaders would see that Gentiles are no longer considered unclean... where in the world can you come and say that eating meat of anykind is a sin! Did Peter eat meat! No... good for him, but as for us Gentiles (last time i checked banateanca, you ain't no Jew) obviously eating meat is not unclean which means that its not a sin! If it were a sin, I don't think Peter would have walked up to the Jewish leaders and said, "Hey its not unclean anymore!" I think he would have walked up and said, "Hey its a sin!"

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by banateanca
im not the Holy Spirit...so i wont say what is a sin and what isnt.....i know for my life....you go ask God for your life.....and let Him truly convict ya. too many times......and im not saying that this is one of those times......but too many times....we dont flee from evil....we try to get as close to the line as possible without fallin over......i think that is where our problem comes from///


Hmmm well if this ain't one of those times, then your whole point above and well many of your later points are invalid in this debate!

Post Reference 1

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by banateanca
if you say drinking is not bad...but getting drunk is.....then instead of trying to see how close we can get to the "line" without sinning, why dont we run the opposite direction without looking bacck???

not to say that i do that in all things....but realy i should.....


once again you state that there is nothing wrong with getting close to the line, but you feel that you should not do so? somethings wrong here! in this post and Post Reference 1 you made two points in which you said something wasn't wrong but its best we don't do it or that you feel its best to not do it! sounds to me like your creating your own list of rules to live by taken from the Bible, but that those rules aren't really the view of the Bible!

Post Reference 2

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by banateanca
eating meat is not a sin. but my convictions are that meat leads to sickness and sin and disease. just like the hebrews wanting quail...in the desert.....God's manna was not good enuf for them......so God gave them what they wanted.....but He also let them have the consequences......cause most of them got sick and died from eating those quail.

so.....did God send them poisoned quail??? im sure He didnt. but it wasnt good for them, and God knew it...and He provided all they needed.....but they werent satisfied or content.

if it is your strong belief (conviction) that meat leads to sickness, sin and disease, then by all means, you stay away from it! nevertheless don't state that being a vegetarian or vegan for that matter is healthier! The fact that you lived a normal life eating meat up until the point you got saved and then you became a vegan means nothing! Thats like me saying that I didn't eat salad until I got saved and wow I really started to eat alot of salad! Also you being "skinny" back when you ate meat and the fact you look "normal" now is only a matter of your self image! now lets move on to the quail!

after reading Numbers chapter 11 in the Bible, it does talk about the Isrealites wanting to eat meat! you have to ask yourself this question! why would God provide meat if the Isrealites were not supposed to eat meat. also did the Isrealites not eat a part of the sacrificial lamb that was offered up to God? so nevertheless God provides the Isrealites with quail! Now banateanca... you look in the New Testament to see the greek word that was used in place of the word "meat"! I must say I'm impressed but I'm also very impressed that you missed why God punished those who ate meat! It wasn't because they ate meat my dear. (sorry Shane... didn't mean to say dear but im too lazy to hit backsapce) it was because they rebelled against God and they turned their back on the Lord! and guess what... this wasn't the first time but the second! In Exodus, the Lord provided the Isrealites with meat because of their complaining! Later on in Numbers, the Isrealites complain again and this time in anger over the Isrealite people for saying "We would have been better off in Egypt" God sends a plague!

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by banateanca
the first sin was over food that was restricted........and our problem still seems to be the same today. why such a big deal over an animal or two that is considered "unclean" cause its a scavanger and harbors diseaases? dont we have so much more to choose from? i mean, hey! locusts are clean animals!!!! lololol

so tell me..what do you do with the verses in isaiah 65:4,5 and isaiah 66: 16,17

can we discuss these verses...and read the context.......i'd like to see the honest conclusions gotten from these two chapters in the Bible...and especially these 4 verses......

ok i think i answered your first paragraph in a previous post. the first sin wasn't over restricted food but over their attitudes and ungratefulness! :D

secondly i have read those verses in Isaiah.. thanks Krazy for posting those verses... and well what conclusions do I come too! Isaiah was an Isrealite who during that time period saw that the eating of "swine" was unclean! What I don't understand is that you seem to follow the Old Testament so closely when your salvation lies in the New! So while in the Old Test. Isaiah is saying that eating of pigs is unclean.... you have Peter in the New Test. saying that the eating of any animal now is clean! hmm sounds like contradictions to me doesn't it! but i thought the Bible was perfect and with error! so what or whom do we follow. also Christ lived his life like any other Jew and followed the law exactly! does that mean we should do the same... sure that is of course until Christ died on the cross and changed the way we live life! We don't live through the law but by grace! The entire New Test. teaches us how to live by grace. Does the Old Test. teach us how to live by grace... No because that wasn't the way people lived before Christ..... but after Christ our lives were changed and the way we lived was changed! And I believe we have seen enough verses posted from the New Testament that shows what is allowed to be eaten and what is not! So for anyone to say eating meat is wrong.... is just plain wrong and for anyone to say eating meat is a sin.... is well a sin cause the Bible doesn't teach us that! For those of you who are vegetarians because of the health benefits... good for you! For those of you who eat meat.... check out my next post :D

[tenazrael]

We Don't Have to Give Up Meat to Enjoy the Benefits of a Healthy Diet

New York, NY, July 11, 1997 —A panel of scientists and physicians from The American Council on Science and Health has concluded that the widely touted health benefits of vegetarianism are not necessarily due to the absence of meat. In a new report, ACSH health experts review scientific data on the possible health benefits of vegetarianism, explain how vegetarians can plan healthful diets, and discuss the suitability of vegetarian diets for people with special needs. Dr. Ruth Kava, ACSH Director of Nutrition, says: "The mere fact that a diet is meatless does not guarantee that it is healthful. And although eliminating meat is a way to reduce saturated fat and increase plant foods in the diet, it is not the only way. Balance, moderation, and variety are the keys to a healthy eating plan."

*(tenazreal side comment...) hmm balance and moderation.... isn't that what the Bible teaches us when it comes to anything.... :D (ps. not in original document)

The essentials of reducing the risk of chronic diseases dietarily are: limiting quantities of high-fat foods; choosing lean red meats, skinless poultry, and low-fat or nonfat dairy products; and eating generous amounts of grains, fruits, and vegetables.

Vegetarians do not merely avoid eating meat; they also tend to make healthier lifestyle choices. Many are health conscious: They exercise regularly, maintain a desirable body weight, don't smoke, don't abuse illegal drugs and don't abuse alcohol.

Dr. Kava warns, "A vegetarian diet is not necessarily healthful and low in saturated fat." Vegetarian diets that include dairy products are usually nutritionally adequate, as long as good sources of bioavailable iron and zinc are included in the diet. But vegan diets (which don't include animal products) must be carefully planned to include vitamins B12 and D, and iron, zinc, and calcium. And people with increased nutritional needs—such as children, adolescents, pregnant women, and people with medical problems—should be very careful when following limited diets.

"Well-planned vegetarian diets can be healthful, but we cannot attribute any unique benefits to a meatless diet," says Dr. Elizabeth Whelan, ACSH President. "Lifestyle choices and dietary factors other than avoidance of meat are more relevant to good health."

[tenazrael]

... and finally for those of you who believe the "Holy Spirit" convicted of you something.... make sure it follows God's Word because if it doesn't.... then I don't think it was the "Holy Spirit" at all :D just that too many people say the "Holy Spirit" this and the "Holy Spirit" that and well I'm starting to believe that we may as well go worship at all the locations where the Saint Mary was reported being seen! :confused:

[Nygel]

Originally posted by banateanca
the first sin was over food that was restricted........and our problem still seems to be the same today. why such a big deal over an animal or two that is considered "unclean" cause its a scavanger and harbors diseaases? dont we have so much more to choose from? i mean, hey! locusts are clean animals!!!! lololol

By the first sin I believe you are talking about Adam and Eve and the forbidden fruit. Yes it was a fruit :lol2: it wasn't an animal product. Yes we do have so much to choose from. I believe turkey is a "clean" animal :bfro: All I know is that Jesus was not a vegan.

Is turkey unhealthy?

[KrazyEuro]

lets see what apostle paul says about this...

Romans 14:19-23

19. Let us then pursue what makes for peace and for mutual upbuilding.

20. Do not, for the sake of food, destroy the work of God. Everything is indeed clean, but it is wrong for any one to make others fall by what he eats;

21. it is right not to eat meat or drink wine or do anything that makes your brother stumble.

22. The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God; happy is he who has no reason to judge himself for what he approves.

23. But he who has doubts is condemned, if he eats, because he does not act from faith; for whatever does not proceed from faith is sin.

such beautiful verses..but if you go back a couple of verses to verse 14..it says..

Romans 14:14,15

14. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for any one who thinks it unclean.

15. If your brother is being injured by what you eat, you are no longer walking in love. Do not let what you eat cause the ruin of one for whom Christ died.

so like i said, and apostle paul says, if you think its wrong, dont do it!! and as christians, if we ever go out to dinner, we shouldnt eat meat in front of you!! if it causes you to stumble in faith!! read verse 14 again...where he says

Romans 14:14

14. I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for any one who thinks it unclean.

he's convinced, apostle paul himself, is convinced, that nothign is unclean from the Lord!! talking about meat!

[tenazrael]

great verses Krazy.... I must say... I concur :D

PASS THE BEEF PLEASE!!!!!!

ps. and A-1 sauce :amen:

[meesh]

hahaha...yeah...he is convinced..that they arent unclean.....BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY WERE SACRAFICED TO IDOLS. if you read the WHOLE thing..it tells about about how that meat was first sacraficed to idols before put on the market.....and that offended some people.

so paul says....there is really only ONE GOD... and that is the one whom we serve. so the meat isnt "tainted" by some curse or something of some "god".

its like finding out that your grocery store sends half of its profit to pornography. some people would be so offended that they would never shop there again. but others.....knowing that what the company does has no "actual" affect on the food itself....will still shop there..

oh...and by the way..i already pointed this out.....but paul was a vegetarian.

and netu....good artical on the vegetarian stuff. that doctor is right......just eating healthy isnt enuf. you must excerices (must must must)....and make sure you get enuf sleep....and very importantly have God in your life (though they didnt put that in there).

being vegetarian isnt the "cure-all". i know many vegetarians that are more unhealthy than meat eaters......cause they load up on the cheese big time (and cheese is worse than meat......cause it wont digest)....and they go crazy with the sugar. so they are not any healthier.......and especially if they dont exercise.

for me......i want a total lifestyle of health.....keeps my mind clearer.....so that i can make better decisions for God.

and netu..i was NOT saying that its okay to get close to the "line". i was saying you should run away.......but i was just confessin my own faults.....that i fall into temptation too....and i get lazy sometimes.....and i fall back from my own personal standard. i have things that i deal with too......im still human....and still growing......and i still have "wants" .....that come up.....that i know are not good for me.....yet sometimes i fall for them.grrrr.....then i get so mad at myself later when i am pickin myself off the floor cause i knew better......

and i never said that only vegetarians go to heaven.
what i said is if you know something....and you do the opposite.....then FOR YOU it is considered a sin. like the verses said that someone put.......if you doubt...and still eat.....then it is a sin.

sometimes......sin is something that appliles to each person individiually at the level they are at in their walk with God. Only He knows where we are at.....and what's next to learn.

and i dont get offended if someone eats meat in front of me. i have no problem. though beni's pork chops last sunday did really stink!!!! lol

[meesh]

[i]Originally posted by tenazrael It wasn't because they ate meat my dear. (sorry Shane... didn't mean to say dear but im too lazy to hit backsapce) it was because they rebelled against God and they turned their back on the Lord!

hahaha...that was funny...i cracked up when i saw that....

dont worry...shane doesnt mind....cause that is a word that alot of people use casually....lol.......now if you used something else..then..........it would still have been my fault, he would say.....hahah lolol....noo...jk

dont worry....i know you dont mean anything by it.....

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by banateanca
hahaha...yeah...he is convinced..that they arent unclean.....BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THEY WERE SACRAFICED TO IDOLS. if you read the WHOLE thing..it tells about about how that meat was first sacraficed to idols before put on the market.....and that offended some people.

so paul says....there is really only ONE GOD... and that is the one whom we serve. so the meat isnt "tainted" by some curse or something of some "god".

ok so meat is clean even if its been sacrificed to idols but its unclean nevertheless?! that is an assumption that you are making not one from the Bible!

Originally posted by banateanca
its like finding out that your grocery store sends half of its profit to pornography. some people would be so offended that they would never shop there again. but others.....knowing that what the company does has no "actual" affect on the food itself....will still shop there..

once again, your comparing a bad thing (aka pornography) to a good thing (aka meat) can't do that... if your gonna come up with an example... you have to come up with a better one than that to make a valid point!

the sky is blue
the ocean is blue
hence the sky and ocean are the same!

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by banateanca
oh...and by the way..i already pointed this out.....but paul was a vegetarian.

and, your point is?!?! because paul is a vegetarian, doesn't mean anything. why do you think in all his sermons and preachings he did not condemn or get on the case of gentiles and teach them eating meat would hurt them.

better yet, why in all his sermons (which most of them were on how to live the Christian life) did he not mention that meat is one of those things that will cause you to fall or lead you to temptation?

meat will not lead you to sin. be careful what you say leads someone to sin and what doesn't!

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by banateanca
and netu....good artical on the vegetarian stuff. that doctor is right......just eating healthy isnt enuf. you must excerices (must must must)....and make sure you get enuf sleep....and very importantly have God in your life (though they didnt put that in there).

being vegetarian isnt the "cure-all". i know many vegetarians that are more unhealthy than meat eaters......cause they load up on the cheese big time (and cheese is worse than meat......cause it wont digest)....and they go crazy with the sugar. so they are not any healthier.......and especially if they dont exercise.

once again, you missed the point... its through balance and moderation that we achieve a healthly lifestyle, not by removing cheese or dairy products that makes vegetarians unhealthy. you yourself as a vegan can become unhealthy if you do not eat in moderation and do not eat a balanced meal!

Originally posted by banateanca
for me......i want a total lifestyle of health.....keeps my mind clearer.....so that i can make better decisions for God.

amen! just remember, you will have a total lifestyle of health through balance and moderation of everything you do in life! not through what you eat. same goes for having a clearer mind! As far as being able to make better decisions for God, that only comes from above... not because of what eat! Pray... thats what you need to do is pray!

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by banateanca
and netu..i was NOT saying that its okay to get close to the "line". i was saying you should run away.......but i was just confessin my own faults.....that i fall into temptation too....and i get lazy sometimes.....and i fall back from my own personal standard. i have things that i deal with too......im still human....and still growing......and i still have "wants" .....that come up.....that i know are not good for me.....yet sometimes i fall for them.grrrr.....then i get so mad at myself later when i am pickin myself off the floor cause i knew better......

its ok... you shouldn't get mad at yourself... you can't do anything, just surrender your life to Christ.. cause He is the only one who can forgive you! as far as temptation is concerned, Christ was tempted all the time by the presense of prostitutes and people just as bad but he was able to overcome these temptations but not by running away but by self control and well so much more! we need to do the same thing. we need to have self-control and build our faith so things of this world don't tempt us!

[tenazrael]

Originally posted by banateanca
and i never said that only vegetarians go to heaven.
what i said is if you know something....and you do the opposite.....then FOR YOU it is considered a sin. like the verses said that someone put.......if you doubt...and still eat.....then it is a sin.

sometimes......sin is something that appliles to each person individiually at the level they are at in their walk with God. Only He knows where we are at.....and what's next to learn.

and i dont get offended if someone eats meat in front of me. i have no problem. though beni's pork chops last sunday did really stink!!!! lol

but see thats what I question about the faith of people. you use to be penti and you ate all kinds of meat yet at some point in your life you became "saved" and you became allergic to meat. did someone "help" you see it was a sin or did God put it upon your heart that it was sin. we know for a fact that it couldn't have been God because that would contradict His Word! so then i question whether your sudden change really came from up above or from just you!

sin isn't something that applies to each person individually! sin is sin and it is always here never changing. i don't recall the Bible bringing up different sins but I do recall the Bible showing us the different ways people fall into sin!

i used to go to a Presbyterian school and one thing I was taught was that the way a person is baptized is by "sprinkling". but in the Baptist church I was taught that we are to be "immersed". I began to question which was right but I could come to no conclusion. Both sides had valid arguments and you couldn't choose one view over the other without in some way contradicting the Bible! It was then I realized that the Bible doesn't teach us what to "do" to live life, but "how" to live life! In other words, it doesn't tell us we must go to church and pray a specific way wearing specific clothes and have fellowship a specific way or so on, but it tells us we must go to church because it is "healthy" for a Christian believer. If that believer doesn't go to church, its not a sin, but it will hurt that believer spiritually and in time they will suffer and want to go back!

And same applies to this issue of eating and many other issues. What we eat or drink doesn't condemn us nor it is a sin. The Bible teaches us that everything in moderation is good! It teaches us that we must be careful not to make our brother stumble! How do we make someone stumble! If we do something they thought was a sin and it causes them to stumble in their faith, then yes that is a sin! Sadly the way most Christians stumble is because they are taught falsely. They are taught that this and that are sins by ignorant so called Christians but are never really shown the truth that is taught in the Bible. So when I hear a Christian saying that going to the movies is a sin or wearing a short skirt a sin, it makes me feel sad that people have forgotten that our lives are more important that such trivial things! We try to look so perfect on the outside but on the inside we are rotten to the core. Just like Christ said... on the outside we are whitewashed tombs but on the inside we are filled with dead men's bones! Nevertheless, I pray that everyone who believes in the Christian faith, knows why they believe it and where in the Bible it comes from! :)

[jakota]

i concur

[jakota]

:spam:

[Olgutza]

hhaha wow such :spam: i dont beleive it!:laf:

[meesh]

you have good points there tenazrael.....

and to let you know..i became saved before i became penti......

and fromthat time i was allergic to pork.....not meat.....just pork......and i delt with it for like 3 yrs..and didnt know what it was.....and even spent about $10,000 at doctors and hospitals and stuff..and no one could figure it out..and not the mention that i prayed endlessly about it.......but God had his right timing of when to answer me. then someone told me about daniel's diet...and i did it...and it worked......and then i tried pork again..and immeditaley..like the next day...the stuff appeared again..my allergic reaction.

so what else could i think? i used to eat it all the time...and had no problems......

what i believe ...is that nothing is coincidence....i believe that God is in control of every detail of our lives......of course....with our permission in some areas. but He knows everything......so why did He allow me to go thru all that .....and for that to work in the end? then i read verses that convinced me and now i do not waver in what i believe.

my conscience is my conscience.....and i dont want to push what i believe on anyone.......

if that is what i have been doing....then i am sorry......i will stop.

and i agree about sin being sin......relativity is not an option...

solomon had 300 wives......i believe that to be a sin....because it is not how God made it to be in the beginning.....but God says that he "wink" in times of IGNORANCE.

i believe that if there is something that you dont know about it being a sin.......it is a time of ignorance.....and God "winks" at that time. but i also believe that God doesnt want us to stay in ignorance.....so he eventually....when we are ready (important point)...reveals to us His truth little by little.

my conviction stands........if i go against what i truly honestly believe.....then i am sinning......cause i would sure feel guilty......
so please be understanding that this is what i believe, and that i dont judge anyone nor do i want to be judged......"for the kingdom of God is not of meat and drink"......meaning those are not absolute deciding factors......it goes much deeper than that.......

[Nygel]

"People with cutaneous porphyria develop blisters, itching, and swelling of their skin when it is exposed to sunlight."

well that is awful to be allergic to sunlight. What does this mean? Now from here to we go on to believe that God does not want these people to come out of their basement during the day because it's wrong? I hope not.

I don't remember if you said you were allergic to turkey or chicken...but I'm not sure how you would go from being allergic to pork to not eating any meat.

[meesh]

its just a decision i made

......about pork and shrimp...and rabbit....and camels...and horses.....and vulturs....haha lol...all those ..from what i learned...are a sin....but i am convicted on it....if you're not....then you take that up with God....you ask Him to convict you of what is sin or not...and He'll tellyou.....

about meat in general...its a decision i made....in myown personal relationship with God. i feel that this helps in a way to give me better health and to make my thinking clearer....which will help me to make better deciisions for God. so thus.....i will be in a better relationship with God.
this is a personal thing. just like if i was to say that wearing a green shirt on tuesday brings me closer to God...then so be it...for me. its not something you have to do....its just something i believe in.

you eat whatever you want.....well....eat what YOU KNOW is good for ya.....and focus on your relationship with God. if God moves YOU in a specific direction..then go with it.....

that is what happened to me....so i moved with the conviction......can you judge me for that?

[65stang]

banateanca, wut wouldja do fo a poke chop.

[Nygel]

what's wrong with rabbit? Is that another one of the animals that were considered unclean? Do wild rabbits even EXIST in Israel? :bfro:

[meesh]

haha...stang...nothin.....i am allergic to them...anything from pig i am allergic too ...even gelatin..like jello....no gummie worms for me...

yeah..rabbits are part of the "unclean"..

but look on the bright side.....locust and grasshoppers are "clean".....and there are plenty of those to go around!!!! lolol....

[Nygel]

ewwww you eat GRASSHOPPERS????


LOL...just kidding. :bfro:

[meesh]

haha...noooooo no nooo ...lol

i dont eat anything that had a mother or came from a mother....

or that has a face...and grasshoppers fit all three of those criteria.......

but some mexicans told me how they prepare them.....and of course.....fresh too....lol

[Nygel]

worms don't have a face :bfro: I don't know how they reproduce, but it's hard to imagine them having a mother. :lol2:

[meesh]

ha haha mmmmm...lolol jk

well they have an anterial and dorsal end.....or are those terms for something else...its been like 8 years since i have had biology.....lollol

so there is a "head" somewhere....

either way..its not a plant.....its a "thing that creepeth upon the earth"....as described in genesis...and it doesnt list creeping things under list given for food.....lol

that is where i get my diet from......from Genesis..and its just a personal thing.

there is nothing wrong with eating meat......you just risk heart disease and stroke and kidney problems and who knows what other diseases meat has these days. meat used to be alot cleaner back in the day....but today......they are sooo "chemicalized" and other sick cows are grounded up and fed to the good cows......and the same goes for chicken....yuck!

[Olgutza]

Originally posted by banateanca
ha haha mmmmm...lolol jk

well they have an anterial and dorsal end.....or are those terms for something else...its been like 8 years since i have had biology.....lollol

so there is a "head" somewhere....

either way..its not a plant.....its a "thing that creepeth upon the earth"....as described in genesis...and it doesnt list creeping things under list given for food.....lol

that is where i get my diet from......from Genesis..and its just a personal thing.

there is nothing wrong with eating meat......you just risk heart disease and stroke and kidney problems and who knows what other diseases meat has these days. meat used to be alot cleaner back in the day....but today......they are sooo "chemicalized" and other sick cows are grounded up and fed to the good cows......and the same goes for chicken....yuck!

Hmmm... cows eating cows, and chickens eating chickens... don't worry, you get to eat the plants that are nurished by their fertilizer.
:baby:

Plants have been "chemicalized", too. That's why there is so much advertisement for the "new and improved" homegrown, all-naturally grown vegetables.
:D

[alis7]

Hey whoever started this tread GBU.... I was at work having a discussion online with one of my muslim mates from work and we had a dabate about eating pork: being unclean and disgusting to God... he said even christians dont eat pork (and qouted paul) but I came on royouth and some of these verses off this thread really helped... and in the end he agreed that taking care of your soul and eternity is more impo than eating pork or not... but he still thinks that beliveing in Allah is the way to eternity not Jesus... so just wanted to say thanks... those verses really helped... all i can do now is pray and be a light (which is the hardest part) hehe

[chuchu]

To whoever thinks it's a sin to eat pork or shrip or whatever else, you're nuts. Old testament rules were different. Why don't you go and burn a lamb or a bird to have your sins forgotten if you live by the old testament? You wouldn't do that would you? So why not eat pork? If in the old Testament woulda said don't eat eggs, you wouldn't have eaten now? But anyways, people get caught in little things like eating pork or not and don't look at the important bits of what makes someone a christian.

[dpeaches84]

I WANTED TO ASK YOU GUYS .....IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IT NAMES MANY TYPES OF ANIMALS THAT ARE FORBIDEN TO EAT,.....IS THIS STILL AN ACTIVE LAW:confused: .....IF IT ISNT WHERE IN THE NT DOES IT SAY THAT IT IS NOW OK TO EAT THESE ANIMALS ? :confused: :confused: :confused: ??? I NEED SOME HELP YOU GUYS SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER :help:

haaa Ironic that I just read a passage about this issue just a few minutes ago! The bible states clearly in the New Testament: "But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do."
1 Corinthians 8:8

And even beyond this we are saved through CHRIST, NOTTTT our own efforts!!

[VAGR.1]

Jesus told people "it is not what goes inside a man's mouth that makes him filthy, but what comes out".

[KiSsMeDoOrK17]

lol, wow, then 99.99% of the Royouth members have sinned against the word of God, since we all have eaten crinzati and mici..lol.. .haha, man,these threads get more and more ridiculos and amusing!

[moe2006]

I WANTED TO ASK YOU GUYS .....IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IT NAMES MANY TYPES OF ANIMALS THAT ARE FORBIDEN TO EAT,.....IS THIS STILL AN ACTIVE LAW:confused: .....IF IT ISNT WHERE IN THE NT DOES IT SAY THAT IT IS NOW OK TO EAT THESE ANIMALS ? :confused: :confused: :confused: ??? I NEED SOME HELP YOU GUYS SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER :help:
This is an old thread but my answer: the only LAW still valid from the Old Testament are the Ten Commandments...

Those are the basic even in Christianity. Jesus did say Love your enemy and Love God... If we did just that, we'd follow every commandment. We wouldn't steal since we love everyone. We wouldn't lie. We wouldn't kill...etc.

[adelinne]

This is an old thread but my answer: the only LAW still valid from the Old Testament are the Ten Commandments...Those are the basic even in Christianity. Jesus did say Love your enemy and Love God... If we did just that, we'd follow every commandment. We wouldn't steal since we love everyone. We wouldn't lie. We wouldn't kill...etc.


I doubt that, actually we live no longer under the LAW , cuz its either law or grace, you can´t have bouth

[мz_яσmαиiα]

I WANTED TO ASK YOU GUYS .....IN THE OLD TESTAMENT IT NAMES MANY TYPES OF ANIMALS THAT ARE FORBIDEN TO EAT,.....IS THIS STILL AN ACTIVE LAW:confused: .....IF IT ISNT WHERE IN THE NT DOES IT SAY THAT IT IS NOW OK TO EAT THESE ANIMALS ? :confused: :confused: :confused: ??? I NEED SOME HELP YOU GUYS SO I CAN UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER :help:

Intrebarea ta care o fost cu privire la mancaruri din animale care nu sint curate sau care n-ai voie sa mananci din ele de exemplu: porcul, camila, iepurile de casa etc, deci intrebarea este pusa cu scopul daca ele in Noul Testament sint dezlegate sau nu.
Dela creatunie Dumnezeu le-a facut pentru totdeauna asa cum sint, si ele vor fi asa cum o fost create dela inceput pana cand va veni Domnul.
De exemplu:
-Porcul a fost creat cu unghia despicata dar nu rumega, daca in Vechiul Testament porcul a fost creat cu unghia despicata si n-a rumegat acuma in Noul Testament a inceput sa rumege? (Nicidecum)
Daca ar fi in Noul Testament dezlegat acest lucrul atuncea animalul ar fi trebuit sa fie si el schimbat sa incepe sa rumege si sa aiba si copita despicata.
In Vechiul Testament cu privire la acest lucru este scris clar cum putem deosebi care animale sint curate si din care se poate manca si din care nu se poate manca.
Cartea Levitic cap 11 vers 3:
Sa mancati orice dobitoc care are unghia despicata, copita despartita si rumega.
Deci fie in Vechiul Testament, fie in Noul Testament aceste trei elimente trebuie sa fie :
1. unghia despicata

2. copita despartita Daca sint toate aceste trei elimente se poate manca
din ele.
3. si rumega

.................................................. .................................................. ..............................
Daca una din aceste lipseste nu se poate manca din ele.
De exemplu:
1. Unghia despicata

2. Copita despartita Nu este bine pentruca nu rumega.

3. si nu rumega
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................
1. Nu are unghia despicata

2. Nu are copita despartita Nu este bine ca nu are unghia despicata

3. si rumega
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................
Concluzie:
Dupa aceste semne ne-o lasat Domnul sa cunoastem din care este voie sa mancam si din care nu.
Ori ca sint in Vechiul Testament ori ca sint in Noul Testament acestea sint semnele dupa care cunoastem.

Un al doilea lucru:
Daca in Noul Testament Domnul Isus ar fi dezlegat sau ar fi curatit toate bucatele atunci si Domnul Isus si ucenicii lui ar fi mancat din ele, dar ei n-au mancat.
De unde putem cunoaste ca ei n-or mancat din ele?
Faptele Apost. cap 10 vers. 14 Apostulul Petru marturiseste in acest verset asa:
" Nicidecum, Doamne", a raspuns Petru: " Caci niciodata n-am mancat ceva spurcat si necurat.
Cu toate ca Petru sa gandit ca vedenia aceasta se refera la mancare, dar intelesul vedenie era cu totul diferit.
Vedenia nu se refera cu privire la mancare ci sa referit sa nu numesti spurcati pe oameni, pentruca Evreii ii numeau pe Neamuri spurcati.

- Daca Petru spune aceasta marturie ca niciodata n-a mancat ceva spurcat sau necurat, si aceasta intimplare sa petrecut dupa ce Domnul Isus sa inaltat la cer pentruca Faptele Apos. au fost scrise dupa inaltarea Domnului la cer.

- Si daca Petru si ceilalti ucenici n-au mancat, nici Domnul Isus nu a mancat.
De unde stim?

-Stim pentruca din acel moment cand Domnul Isus a ales pe cei doisprezece le-a luat supt ocrotirea Lui.
Bagam de seama din acel moment unde a dormit Domnul Isus, au dormit si ucenicii, si ce a mancat Domnul Isus, le-a dat si lor sa manance.
Si daca Petru marturiseste ca nu a mancat niciodata ceva spurcat sau necurat, atunci nici Domnul Isus nu a mancat.

-Si daca Domnul Isus si ucenicii Lui nu au mancat din ce este spurcat sau necurat atunci cum au dezlegat ei pentru altii, si pentru ei n-au dezlegat?

- Un alt lucru dupa care putem cunoaste ca nu este dezlegat acest lucru cu privire la mancare din dobitoace necurate, este acesta:
Pilda care este spusa de insus Domnul Isus, pilda cu navodul se gaseste la Matei cap.13:47 in care spune asa:
Imparatia cerurilor se mai aseamna cu un navod aruncat in mare, care prinde tot felul de pesti.
Dupace sa umplut pescarii il scot la mal, sed jos, aleg in vase ce este bun si arunca afara ce este rau.
Asa ca daca in pilda aceasta Domnul Isus spune ca pescarii dupace trag navodul afara din mare, stau jos, si aleg in vase ce este bun si arunca afara ce este rau.
Deci daca asa stau lucrurile cum unii sustin din Marcu cap.7:19 unde spune asa:
Fiindca nu intra in inima lui, ci in pintace, si apoi este dat afara in hazna?
A zis astfel, facind toate bucatele curate, atunci daca Domnul Isus ar fi facut toate bucatele curate, si se poate manca din toate, dece in pilda cu navodul pestii si vietuitoare din mare care nu erau bune, El le spunea ca pescarii alegeau si ce era rau erau aruncate afara!

Aceasta pilda este scrisa in Noul Testament, din care putem trage concluzia ca toate vietuitoarele de pe pamint, si din ape, care au fost interzise pentru folosire sint valibile si pentru oameni care traiesc in Noul Testament.

Dece a interzis Dumnezeu in Vechiul Testament sa nu se manance din dobitoace necurate?
Raspunsul este pentruca dobitoacele necurate provocau anumite boli pentru organismul omenesc.
Si pentru ca omul sa traiasca sanatos, si Dumnezeu sa aiba un popor sanatos, le-a trasat acest porunci ca omul sa se fereasca de animalale care aduc dauna organismului.
Si daca pentru oameni de-atuncea din Vechiul Testament acestea animale necurate au produs daune organismului lor, bine inteles si in zilele de astazi acelasi daune aduce si organismului nostru.
De exemplu: Produsul de carne de porc este studiat in laborator ca este un aliment cel mai greu si in unii porci sa constatat in carnea lor trichinoza, acest microb este atat de pericolos care poate sa produca pana si moartea.
Deci aceste lucruri le marturiseste cei din laborator, care n-au nimic comun cu religia.

Daca ar fi fost permise pentru folosire in aceasta pilda n-ar fi scris ca ei alegeau si ce era rau era aruncat afara, pentruca pescarii din zilele noastre de astazi nu arunca nimic si nu alege nimic. Toate le pune pe piata si le vinde.
De exemplu: octopus, calamari, raci, scoici, pestii fara solzi etc.

De ce dela un timp incoace oameni nu mai tin cont de acestea lucruri si nu se mai respecta din ce a poruncit Dumnezeu?
Pentruca totul este lacomia dupa bani, si ca sa nu arunce vietuitoarele marine acele care sint interzise napoi in mare, ei le vinde.
Si cu vietuitoarele cele depe pamant se intampla tot la fel, le vinde ca sa faca bani.

[chuchu]

Intrebarea ta care o fost cu privire la mancaruri din animale care nu sint curate sau care n-ai voie sa mananci din ele de exemplu: porcul, camila, iepurile de casa etc, deci intrebarea este pusa cu scopul daca ele in Noul Testament sint dezlegate sau nu.
Dela creatunie Dumnezeu le-a facut pentru totdeauna asa cum sint, si ele vor fi asa cum o fost create dela inceput pana cand va veni Domnul.
De exemplu:
-Porcul a fost creat cu unghia despicata dar nu rumega, daca in Vechiul Testament porcul a fost creat cu unghia despicata si n-a rumegat acuma in Noul Testament a inceput sa rumege? (Nicidecum)
Daca ar fi in Noul Testament dezlegat acest lucrul atuncea animalul ar fi trebuit sa fie si el schimbat sa incepe sa rumege si sa aiba si copita despicata.
In Vechiul Testament cu privire la acest lucru este scris clar cum putem deosebi care animale sint curate si din care se poate manca si din care nu se poate manca.
Cartea Levitic cap 11 vers 3:
Sa mancati orice dobitoc care are unghia despicata, copita despartita si rumega.
Deci fie in Vechiul Testament, fie in Noul Testament aceste trei elimente trebuie sa fie :
1. unghia despicata

2. copita despartita Daca sint toate aceste trei elimente se poate manca
din ele.
3. si rumega

.................................................. .................................................. ..............................
Daca una din aceste lipseste nu se poate manca din ele.
De exemplu:
1. Unghia despicata

2. Copita despartita Nu este bine pentruca nu rumega.

3. si nu rumega
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................
1. Nu are unghia despicata

2. Nu are copita despartita Nu este bine ca nu are unghia despicata

3. si rumega
.................................................. .................................................. ..............................
Concluzie:
Dupa aceste semne ne-o lasat Domnul sa cunoastem din care este voie sa mancam si din care nu.
Ori ca sint in Vechiul Testament ori ca sint in Noul Testament acestea sint semnele dupa care cunoastem.

Un al doilea lucru:
Daca in Noul Testament Domnul Isus ar fi dezlegat sau ar fi curatit toate bucatele atunci si Domnul Isus si ucenicii lui ar fi mancat din ele, dar ei n-au mancat.
De unde putem cunoaste ca ei n-or mancat din ele?
Faptele Apost. cap 10 vers. 14 Apostulul Petru marturiseste in acest verset asa:
" Nicidecum, Doamne", a raspuns Petru: " Caci niciodata n-am mancat ceva spurcat si necurat.
Cu toate ca Petru sa gandit ca vedenia aceasta se refera la mancare, dar intelesul vedenie era cu totul diferit.
Vedenia nu se refera cu privire la mancare ci sa referit sa nu numesti spurcati pe oameni, pentruca Evreii ii numeau pe Neamuri spurcati.

- Daca Petru spune aceasta marturie ca niciodata n-a mancat ceva spurcat sau necurat, si aceasta intimplare sa petrecut dupa ce Domnul Isus sa inaltat la cer pentruca Faptele Apos. au fost scrise dupa inaltarea Domnului la cer.

- Si daca Petru si ceilalti ucenici n-au mancat, nici Domnul Isus nu a mancat.
De unde stim?

-Stim pentruca din acel moment cand Domnul Isus a ales pe cei doisprezece le-a luat supt ocrotirea Lui.
Bagam de seama din acel moment unde a dormit Domnul Isus, au dormit si ucenicii, si ce a mancat Domnul Isus, le-a dat si lor sa manance.
Si daca Petru marturiseste ca nu a mancat niciodata ceva spurcat sau necurat, atunci nici Domnul Isus nu a mancat.

-Si daca Domnul Isus si ucenicii Lui nu au mancat din ce este spurcat sau necurat atunci cum au dezlegat ei pentru altii, si pentru ei n-au dezlegat?

- Un alt lucru dupa care putem cunoaste ca nu este dezlegat acest lucru cu privire la mancare din dobitoace necurate, este acesta:
Pilda care este spusa de insus Domnul Isus, pilda cu navodul se gaseste la Matei cap.13:47 in care spune asa:
Imparatia cerurilor se mai aseamna cu un navod aruncat in mare, care prinde tot felul de pesti.
Dupace sa umplut pescarii il scot la mal, sed jos, aleg in vase ce este bun si arunca afara ce este rau.
Asa ca daca in pilda aceasta Domnul Isus spune ca pescarii dupace trag navodul afara din mare, stau jos, si aleg in vase ce este bun si arunca afara ce este rau.
Deci daca asa stau lucrurile cum unii sustin din Marcu cap.7:19 unde spune asa:
Fiindca nu intra in inima lui, ci in pintace, si apoi este dat afara in hazna?
A zis astfel, facind toate bucatele curate, atunci daca Domnul Isus ar fi facut toate bucatele curate, si se poate manca din toate, dece in pilda cu navodul pestii si vietuitoare din mare care nu erau bune, El le spunea ca pescarii alegeau si ce era rau erau aruncate afara!

Aceasta pilda este scrisa in Noul Testament, din care putem trage concluzia ca toate vietuitoarele de pe pamint, si din ape, care au fost interzise pentru folosire sint valibile si pentru oameni care traiesc in Noul Testament.

Dece a interzis Dumnezeu in Vechiul Testament sa nu se manance din dobitoace necurate?
Raspunsul este pentruca dobitoacele necurate provocau anumite boli pentru organismul omenesc.
Si pentru ca omul sa traiasca sanatos, si Dumnezeu sa aiba un popor sanatos, le-a trasat acest porunci ca omul sa se fereasca de animalale care aduc dauna organismului.
Si daca pentru oameni de-atuncea din Vechiul Testament acestea animale necurate au produs daune organismului lor, bine inteles si in zilele de astazi acelasi daune aduce si organismului nostru.
De exemplu: Produsul de carne de porc este studiat in laborator ca este un aliment cel mai greu si in unii porci sa constatat in carnea lor trichinoza, acest microb este atat de pericolos care poate sa produca pana si moartea.
Deci aceste lucruri le marturiseste cei din laborator, care n-au nimic comun cu religia.

Daca ar fi fost permise pentru folosire in aceasta pilda n-ar fi scris ca ei alegeau si ce era rau era aruncat afara, pentruca pescarii din zilele noastre de astazi nu arunca nimic si nu alege nimic. Toate le pune pe piata si le vinde.
De exemplu: octopus, calamari, raci, scoici, pestii fara solzi etc.

De ce dela un timp incoace oameni nu mai tin cont de acestea lucruri si nu se mai respecta din ce a poruncit Dumnezeu?
Pentruca totul este lacomia dupa bani, si ca sa nu arunce vietuitoarele marine acele care sint interzise napoi in mare, ei le vinde.
Si cu vietuitoarele cele depe pamant se intampla tot la fel, le vinde ca sa faca bani.

Degeaba scrii toate astea ca nu ai dreptate si nici nu o sa ai niciodata. Tu fugi in evu mediu ca acolo e de tine. Spui ca s-a interzis sa mananci anumite animale/pasari ca te imbolnavesti de la ele. Numai carnea de porc te poate imbolnavi? Daca e sa ne luam dupa mintea ta, nu ar trebui sa mai mancam nici pui pentru ca sunt infectati cu H5N1 (aka gripa aviara). Nu poti sa pui toti puii la un loc cum nu poti pune toti porcii la un loc. Daca un porc il tii la groapa de gunoi bineinteles ca se inbolnaveste si ia virusi. Si nu numai porcul ci orice alt animal care are o alimentatie dubioasa. Dar mai dureaza cand toata lumea o sa aiba putina minte si o sa ia tot din Biblie nu numai ce le convine. Si cu privire la faptul ca ucenicii sau Isus nu au mancat asa ceva, de unde stii tu? Nu spune nicaieri in Biblie ce au mancat ei. Dai exemplu ce a spus Petru cand a avut vedenia? Da se referea la neamuri insa nu inseamna ca nu se referea si la mancare. Tu daca ai fi undeva pustiu si nu ai avea multe optiuni pentru a nu muri de foame, iti spun ca ti-ai manca si cainele numai sa supravietuiesti. Cum zice in Biblie, nu ce intra in gura e spurcat, ci ce iese. Nu acuz pe nimeni daca nu vrea sa manance carne de porc sau orice altceva. E alegerea lor si asta ii face sa se simta mai bine. Unii sunt vegetarieni altii nu. Dar nu poti spune ca e un pacat sa mananci un anumit tip de carne.

[мz_яσmαиiα]

Degeaba scrii toate astea ca nu ai dreptate si nici nu o sa ai niciodata. Tu fugi in evu mediu ca acolo e de tine. Spui ca s-a interzis sa mananci anumite animale/pasari ca te imbolnavesti de la ele. Numai carnea de porc te poate imbolnavi? Daca e sa ne luam dupa mintea ta, nu ar trebui sa mai mancam nici pui pentru ca sunt infectati cu H5N1 (aka gripa aviara). Nu poti sa pui toti puii la un loc cum nu poti pune toti porcii la un loc. Daca un porc il tii la groapa de gunoi bineinteles ca se inbolnaveste si ia virusi. Si nu numai porcul ci orice alt animal care are o alimentatie dubioasa. Dar mai dureaza cand toata lumea o sa aiba putina minte si o sa ia tot din Biblie nu numai ce le convine. Si cu privire la faptul ca ucenicii sau Isus nu au mancat asa ceva, de unde stii tu? Nu spune nicaieri in Biblie ce au mancat ei. Dai exemplu ce a spus Petru cand a avut vedenia? Da se referea la neamuri insa nu inseamna ca nu se referea si la mancare. Tu daca ai fi undeva pustiu si nu ai avea multe optiuni pentru a nu muri de foame, iti spun ca ti-ai manca si cainele numai sa supravietuiesti. Cum zice in Biblie, nu ce intra in gura e spurcat, ci ce iese. Nu acuz pe nimeni daca nu vrea sa manance carne de porc sau orice altceva. E alegerea lor si asta ii face sa se simta mai bine. Unii sunt vegetarieni altii nu. Dar nu poti spune ca e un pacat sa mananci un anumit tip de carne.

La 23 de ani inca n-ai acumulat suficienta cunostiiinta din biblie, mai studiaza si nu te grabi sa dai raspuns asa de repede pentruca in Proverbe spune ca acel om este intelept care nu se grabeste sa dea raspunsul imidiat.

[chuchu]

La 23 de ani inca n-ai acumulat suficienta cunostiiinta din biblie, mai studiaza si nu te grabi sa dai raspuns asa de repede pentruca in Proverbe spune ca acel om este intelept care nu se grabeste sa dea raspunsul imidiat.

Tu nu ai destula ... ai ochelari de cal pe ochi si vezi numai inainte. Daca tot crezi asa de mult in vechiul testament, de ce nu aduci ofrande sa le arzi pe altar? Asa spune ca se face pentru iertarea pacatelor. Sau daca o femeie pacatuia, trebuia omorata cu pietre. Hai sa facem si noi asta pentru ca asa spune acolo. Nu e nimic de studiat in privinta carnii. Traim dupa har nu dupa lege. Dar se pare ca mai sunt si unii care nu facut trecerea. Fa si tu un upgrade la la VT 1.0 la versiunea NT 2.1

[мz_яσmαиiα]

Tu nu ai destula ... ai ochelari de cal pe ochi si vezi numai inainte. Daca tot crezi asa de mult in vechiul testament, de ce nu aduci ofrande sa le arzi pe altar? Asa spune ca se face pentru iertarea pacatelor. Sau daca o femeie pacatuia, trebuia omorata cu pietre. Hai sa facem si noi asta pentru ca asa spune acolo. Nu e nimic de studiat in privinta carnii. Traim dupa har nu dupa lege. Dar se pare ca mai sunt si unii care nu facut trecerea. Fa si tu un upgrade la la VT 1.0 la versiunea NT 2.1

Asa te invata scriptura sa jignesti pe fratele sau pe sora ta??
vezi ti-ai dat examenul ce credincos esti!
ai folosit expresia ca am ochilar de cal si vad numa inainte.
si despre upgrade tu ai inceput studiile dela facultate spre gradinita sau
dela gradinita ai inceput sa numeri pe betisoare dupa aceia in clasa intai
ai inceput cu alfabetul si asa incetul cu incetul ai ajuns la cunostiinta mai
avantata

[chuchu]

Nu vad cum expresia ochelari de cal e o jignire pentru tine. E folosita pentru cineva care gandeste numai intr-o singura directie. Dar ti-am demonstrat ca nu ai dreptate, nu? Acuma poti sa mergi si sa mananci niste carne de porc. Apropo ... chiar aseara am facut o mancare cu friptura de porc .. a iesit super delicioasa. Pacat ca nu poti gusta si tu. Si uite ca nu m-am imbolnavit si cu digestia stau foarte bine chiar.

[мz_яσmαиiα]

Nu vad cum expresia ochelari de cal e o jignire pentru tine. E folosita pentru cineva care gandeste numai intr-o singura directie. Dar ti-am demonstrat ca nu ai dreptate, nu? Acuma poti sa mergi si sa mananci niste carne de porc. Apropo ... chiar aseara am facut o mancare cu friptura de porc .. a iesit super delicioasa. Pacat ca nu poti gusta si tu. Si uite ca nu m-am imbolnavit si cu digestia stau foarte bine chiar.

stii psalmul unu care spune asa:
Ferice de omul care nu se duce la sfatul celui rai, nu se opreste pe calea celor
pacatosi si nu se aseaza pe scaunul celor batjocoritori, asa ca eu n-am ce cauta
pe scaunul celor batjocoritori!

[chuchu]

Sa inteleg ca pentru tine toti cei care mananca porc sunt batjocoritori. Cred ca esti foarte izolata de lume.

[мz_яσmαиiα]

Daca nu te superi si ai vrea sa-mi spui, din ce confesiune faci parte?

[chuchu]

Daca nu te superi si ai vrea sa-mi spui, din ce confesiune faci parte?
Nu cred ca are vreo legatura confesiunea cu ce vorbim noi ... doar daca e vorba de adventisti ceea ce nu sunt. E vorba de Biblie nu de confesiune.

[мz_яσmαиiα]

Nu cred ca are vreo legatura confesiunea cu ce vorbim noi ... doar daca e vorba de adventisti ceea ce nu sunt. E vorba de Biblie nu de confesiune.

Eu cred ca are foarte mare legatura, ca nici eu nu sint adventista, si eu
nu spun ce spun adventisti, dar sustin ce spune Biblia, oricum n-are rost
ca sa argumentam numai tre sa studiem cuvintul chair daca nu vrei sa il
primesti, este probleme ta.
Dar noi tre sa raminem frati incontinuare cum spune Domnul Isus, sa ne
iubim unii pe altii.

[moe2006]

I doubt that, actually we live no longer under the LAW , cuz its either law or grace, you can´t have bouth
So you're basically calling Jesus a liar. He got rid of the MAN-MADE laws. The ten commandments are still to be followed to this day. I don't know who taught you from the Bible, but you seem to be lacking the fact that Jesus said he came to FULFILL the law, not destroy it. He just took out what man put in it. Mostly tradition. The ten commandments were written by God himself, not men.

[anselmo]

I DONT THINK THEY STILL APPLY BECAUSE THOSE LAWS WERE THE LAWS THE JEWISH PPL HAD SET UP TO MAKE THEMSELVES STAND OUT AGAINST THE GENTILES...

I think if those laws were good enough for the jews, they must be good for the rest of the people. After all....God set them apart to be a nation of prists which mean Gods representatives for this whole earth. God set them apart from the whole world throught this sanitary law also.
Think about this....if back in the day, in the old testament, the only people of God were the jews and they were set apart from the rest of the world by these rules and laws, would you like to live like the jews or the people around them that were even sacrificing kids on their altars. (you know what happens with the meat after a sacrifice)
God does not change....never....think about it.......and if you read something in the bible that seams to contradict Himself, it is because you did not understand the "contradicting" verse corectly.

[anselmo]

You know what I don't like? I don't like it when people don't go far back enough
and stop where it's convenient to support their arguement. What do you do with
this verse that says:

Genesis 9:1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and
increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all
the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air, upon every creature that
moves along the ground, and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your
hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you
the green plants, I now give you everything.

Why don't you make a mention of this? God from the start said all that lives and
moves will be food for you, just as I have given you the green plants, now I give
you everything.

It's even more annoying when people use this as an example to excuse not
following the Law in the Old Testament because God can't just change His mind
about eating certain animals and just automatically make all animals clean. Using
the same example people fall into both extremes. Yet both claim to be led by
the Spirit of God, and it's not Biblical, but then again some don't believe the Bible
to be inspired by God, infallible and inerrant yet they claim they know God.


Dorin, i don't know you personaly but judging from your posts, i think you have bright mind. You talk about going to the beggining and you just stop at Gne 9:1 which by the way, does not make any refrence to clean or unclean meats.
If you want to start from the beggining, lets go to Gen 1:29 where God states what our food should be. Meat was never intended for our bodies to be consumed. But with sin came animal murder too and sinful pleasures and apetites etc.
The animals to be "meat for you" not that man then first began to eat animal flesh, but only that God for the first time authorized, or rather allowed, him to do what the Flood had made a necessity
The antediluvians were flesh eaters. But it was not the original will of the Creator that His creatures should consume one another. He gave man plants for food. With the temporary destruction of all plant life during the flood and the exhaustion of the food supplies that were taken into the ark, an emergency arose that God met by giving permission to eat the flesh of animals. The eating of flesh food would shorten men’s sinful lives. And we see that after the flood, man's life was shortned dramaticaly.

This permission did not imply an unrestrained and unlimited eating of every kind of animal. The phrase, “moving thing that liveth,” clearly excludes the eating of carcasses of animals that had died or been killed by other beasts, which the Mosaic law later specifically forbade.
Though the distinction between clean and unclean animals in regard to food is not made here, it does not mean that it was unknown to Noah. That Noah was acquainted with this distinction is clear from the previous command to bring more clean than unclean animals into the ark ,and by the fact that he offered only clean animals as his burnt offering.

This distinction must have been known to early man so well that it was not necessary for God to draw Noah’s special attention to it. It was only when this distinction was lost through the centuries of man’s estrangement from God that new and written directives were issued regarding clean and unclean animals. The immutability of God’s character (James 1:17) precludes the possibility of construing this passage as permission to slaughter and eat all creatures. Animals that were unclean for one purpose could not have been clean for another.

[Romania_Man93]

I think if those laws were good enough for the jews, they must be good for the rest of the people. After all....God set them apart to be a nation of prists which mean Gods representatives for this whole earth. God set them apart from the whole world throught this sanitary law also.
Think about this....if back in the day, in the old testament, the only people of God were the jews and they were set apart from the rest of the world by these rules and laws, would you like to live like the jews or the people around them that were even sacrificing kids on their altars. (you know what happens with the meat after a sacrifice)
God does not change....never....think about it.......and if you read something in the bible that seams to contradict Himself, it is because you did not understand the "contradicting" verse corectly.

For sure its good for us aswell coz God gave us those laws so we could live healthy and so God could have healthy people. Normally everything thats written in the bible is for everyone not just the jews. Only because God had to choose his people so he could start with them. And the rules and the laws in the bible were not given just to the jews, but to us aswell.
If u say that God never changes it means that all the laws and rules dont change and they still applie to us now! because if God doesnt change neither does the laws and his rules change.

[anselmo]

Throught the bible God brings to our knoledge, His thoughts on eating unclean meats, and we have different people in the bible that give us that example of refusing to touch unclean meats.

Isaia 65: 1-6 " 1Eram gata să răspund celor ce nu întrebau de Mine, eram gata să fiu găsit de ceice nu Mă căutau; am zis: ,,Iată-Mă, iată-Mă!`` către un neam, care nu chema Numele Meu.
2Mi-am întins mînile toată ziua spre un popor răzvrătit, care umblă pe o cale rea, în voia gîndurilor lui!

3Spre un popor, care nu conteneşte să Mă mînie în faţă, aducînd jertfe în grădini, şi arzînd tămîie pe cărămizile de pe acoperiş;

4care locuieşte în morminte, şi petrece noaptea în peşteri, mîncînd carne de porc, şi avînd în străchini bucate necurate.

5Şi care totuş zice: ,,Dă-te înapoi, nu te apropia de mine, căci sînt sfînt!``... Asemenea lucruri sînt un fum în nările Mele, un foc, care arde necontenit!

6Iată ce am hotărît în Mine: ,,Nici gînd să tac, ci îi voi pedepsi; da, îi voi pedepsi.

this is just one example where God does not accept another way exept His way. He laid foundations for us to follow in order for us to live healthy. You have a healthy mind when your body is healthy and that after you eat and drink healthy.

Daniel 1:8 "8Daniel s'a hotărît să nu se spurce cu bucatele alese ale împăratului şi cu vinul pe care -l bea împăratul, şi a rugat pe căpetenia famenilor dregători să nu -l silească să se spurce.

Daniel was a slave in a pagan country and still asked not to be served with "babilonian junk". Instead asked for water and vegetables to show them that there is a better way.

Peter responded the same way when God was testing him. "How cat i touch what is not clean"?

Romans 12:1 "1Vă îndemn dar, fraţilor, pentru îndurarea lui Dumnezeu, să aduceţi trupurile voastre ca o jertfă vie, sfîntă, plăcută lui Dumnezeu: aceasta va fi din partea voastră o slujbă duhovnicească.

If you are a clean person and eat unclean food, does that mean that you turn the food clean because you're clean? Don't think so.

And V.2 "Să nu vă potriviţi chipului veacului acestuia, ci să vă prefaceţi, prin înoirea minţii voastre, ca să puteţi deosebi bine voia lui Dumnezeu: cea bună, plăcută şi desăvîrşită.

And by the way....it's true God alowed us to eat "clean" meat, it's not what He intended, but look where it's gotten us. Look at how many diseases are out there because meat. Again, God will allow some things, but we suffer the conseqences.

[KrazyEuro]

But again, this is just your opinion. I had a hard time trying to understand what you were saying, due to the fact that you used different languages in your posting. A suggestion if you don't mind, stick to one language. Whether it be romanian or english. Also, using Romans 12:1-2 in your posting and tying it down to Daniel and his 3 buddies with vegitables makes no sense to me. When paul says that we should no longer be conformed to the patterns of this world, why is it that you throw in your ideas of what you think the world is? It is safer to just let scriptures interpret scriptures i always say. Romans 12:1-2 is referring also to Galatians 5:19-21. Peter stands up at the Council in Acts 15 and adresses the Jews saying that "we shouldn't test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear." Referring to the Jewish customs, circumcision and the laws of moses. Later James says that they should rather write to them about not eating meat sacrificed to idols, that with blood and so forth. But again, Paul writes in Romans 14 that food sacrificed to idols shouldn't really be a big deal if the food is offered with thanksgiving. All in all, the scriptures teach that we should accept those who faith is weak.

So to answer, or make a comment to your comment on Daniel only eating vegetables and drinking only water. He followed the laws of moses and kept Gods commandments. He was very wise and mature in doing so. However, God set us free from those laws, in fact, paul says so himself.

Romans 14:1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables

HOWEVER, notice how he says the words "disputable matters"? He calls the topic of "eating meat" a disputable one. So we can discuss this all day and all night long, and i'm sure we'll have a great time doing so, provided that we stay within the boundaries of kindness and gentleness and love. Again, i had a hard time reading your post because it was in 2 different languages, so i might have read it all wrong. Anyways brother, may the Lord Bless you.

[adelinne]

So you're basically calling Jesus a liar. He got rid of the MAN-MADE laws. The ten commandments are still to be followed to this day. I don't know who taught you from the Bible, but you seem to be lacking the fact that Jesus said he came to FULFILL the law, not destroy it. He just took out what man put in it. Mostly tradition. The ten commandments were written by God himself, not men.

What about Sabath day? Do you keep that too? I sure hope you know how you ought to keep it, cuz the rules are pretty hard regarding the sabath day:D

Jesus came to fulfill the Low, not to destroy it, true! but what does that mean? Jesus was the only onw who could keep it, no one did that before Him and no one will be able to do that after Him.

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

did´t He fulfill all the prohets made before about His coming and His Salvation? The verse refers to Jesus being the Mesia , the promised Saviour.

Lets look futher in the same chapter :

Matthew 5

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause[b] shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
what did He do here with the 10 commandments? It looks like His commandments are harder than the one in the OT :)

and it goes on

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old,[c] ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[d]
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

“Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality[e] causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.


Lets see what Paul has to say about the Law

Romans 7

[adelinne]

So you're basically calling Jesus a liar. He got rid of the MAN-MADE laws. The ten commandments are still to be followed to this day. I don't know who taught you from the Bible, but you seem to be lacking the fact that Jesus said he came to FULFILL the law, not destroy it. He just took out what man put in it. Mostly tradition. The ten commandments were written by God himself, not men.

What about Sabath day? Do you keep that too? I sure hope you know how you ought to keep it, cuz the rules are pretty hard regarding the sabath day:D

Jesus came to fulfill the Law, not to destroy it, true! but what does that mean? Jesus was the only onw who could keep it, no one did that before Him and no one will be able to do that after Him. He was and is the only one who can fulfill the Law, I can´t do that and neigther can you :D

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.

did´t He fulfill all the prohecies made before about His coming and His Salvation? The verse refers to Jesus as being the Mesia , the promised Saviour.

Lets look futher in the same chapter :

Matthew 5

21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.
what did He do here with the 10 commandments? It looks like His commandments are harder than the one in the OT :)

and it goes on

27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old,[c] ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[d]
28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell.

“Furthermore it has been said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’
32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality[e] causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.


Lets see what Paul has to say about the Law

Romans 7

4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another—to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 6 But now [B]we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.

7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”[a] 8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead.
9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me.


I know it´s long, try to read all :yeahdude:

[loloy]

when God shown Him self to Paul on his way, God ask him to eat what was in front of him, even thogh before hebrews were not allowed. so it's not a sin.

[anselmo]

Jesus came to fulfill the Law, not to destroy it, true! but what does that mean? Jesus was the only onw who could keep it, no one did that before Him and no one will be able to do that after Him. He was and is the only one who can fulfill the Law, I can´t do that and neigther can you :D


can you please explain this statement

[adelinne]

Jesus came to fulfill the Law, not to destroy it, true! but what does that mean? Jesus was the only onw who could keep it, no one did that before Him and no one will be able to do that after Him. He was and is the only one who can fulfill the Law, I can´t do that and neigther can you :D


can you please explain this statement

c´mon you know what I mean :icecream:

some questions to help :

Was anyone able , exept for Jesus, to keep the Law? no

How did Jesus fulfill the Law ? In many ways, the most important, from my point of view, is the fact that He became the very Lamb required to be sacrificied for the sins of men.( jews) wich was actually the point of the Law.


Paul explains it excelent in Hebrews 8,9, 10

1 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

and then Christ

But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
16 “This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,”[c] 17 then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.”[d] 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.

[Remus_Bob]

pork & shrimps make u fat....don't eat them :(
Mc Donalds is the ultimate fat creator ... and is beef an chicken, so ...:innocent:
Try to eat everything but in a normal way ... few from all even pork or shrimp or whatever, not to forget grocery, vegetables, cereals etc. And absolutely no cola!

[lind]

Simple version:- the world is an all you can eat buffet-don't fall into a legalistic mentality. If there is a reason that should hold you back from eating just anything, well that should be- post/health reasons.

[KrazyEuro]

when God shown Him self to Paul on his way, God ask him to eat what was in front of him, even thogh before hebrews were not allowed. so it's not a sin.


I think you're talking about 2 different stories in this passage...

Paul was on his way to damascus, but nothing about eating was mentioned..

Peter had the vision of all kinds of meat lowered to him, 3 times peter denied eating the meat calling it unclean, but God said don't call anything i made unclean.

[slcdme6]

all i can say is that i am one of the pickiest eaters ever. i will never eat sarmale, supa de pui and many other foods. i went to this weddin a few year back and they had the nastiest sarmale and the greasiest supa de pui ever. i did take the fat off the soup i tasted it 2-3 times and got sick a few hours later and the sarmale were the worst thing ever. i will never ever eat that again. not even if u paid me to eat it i wont

[Remus_Bob]

mancati orice, pentru ca "nu ceea ce intra in gura spurca pe om ci ceea ce iese din gura", dar atentie la sanatate! Nu orice iti face bine si sa te feresti de lucrurile care nu fac bine. Mantuirea nimanui nu depinde de ce mananca ci de felul cum fiecare se raporteaza la jertfa Dlui Isus - o accepta ca ispasire pt pacat sau o ignora si continua cu o viata nepotrivita. Omul nu poate face nimic pentru mantuire ... a facut Dl tot deja!